Garrett record compared to others?

[cowboyblue22]

If I am stuck with Garrett, your idea is the best...................build a roster of elite talent that is so good that they can win despite the head coach

My only concern is that in the era of the salary cap and free agency, is it possible to build a roster that can overcome bad coaching?

with salary cap and free agency there is no way you build a roster than can over come coaching in the league now coaching is one the things that has to be very good for you to advance in the playoffs

 

[Stash]

All you have to do is look at garretts record against winning teams and in win or go home games

It's a fools errand to think we're going anywhere with this HC

He might get lucky in a game or 2 but there is zero possibility of any kind of sustained post season success

That's exactly the conclusion that I've reached, and I think the majority of fans have come to the same realization.

The staunch supporters are gone or in hiding. The most frequent rebuttals you get now are the "he's still here, accept it", as we're seeing here.

Numbers from a recent poll had the "keep him" crowd at 14%. Pretty abysmal approval numbers that speak volumes.

 

[Diehardblues]

All you have to do is look at garretts record against winning teams and in win or go home games

It's a fools errand to think we're going anywhere with this HC

He might get lucky in a game or 2 but there is zero possibility of any kind of sustained post season success

What teams in NFC playoffs do you think we’re a better team than?

 

[Diehardblues]

That's exactly the conclusion that I've reached, and I think the majority of fans have come to the same realization.

The staunch supporters are gone or in hiding. The most frequent rebuttals you get now are the "he's still here, accept it", as we're seeing here.

Numbers from a recent poll had the "keep him" crowd at 14%. Pretty abysmal approval numbers that speak volumes.

How were those numbers last year? I’m sorry but I can’t help but think it’s much more of a doom and gloom after missing the playoffs.

Even last year the Jerry supporters were out how he was turning the corner.

 

[Stash]

with salary cap and free agency there is no way you build a roster than can over come coaching in the league now coaching is one the things that has to be very good for you to advance in the playoffs

Nope.

You can have the greatest players in the world, and they can't make plays if the coaches are telling them to zig when they should zag.

Or, for instance, arguably the best running back in the league can't make a play at the 3-yard line if he's never given the opportunity.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Someone had posted JG record since becoming the HC compared to others hired around the same time. Just trying to get that info. Couldn't find it on here.

That may have been my post. I looked up all records of all teams since 2011, Garrett's first full year in office as HC. Teams with better records from the AFC during his tenure are NE and Pittsburgh (no surprise there) with the Bengals, Ravens and Chiefs being roughly the same. It's not a coincidence that those 5 teams have had one HC for several years. All have been to the playoffs more often than Dallas over the span of 7 years but only 1 team, NE has won a SB in that period.

In the NFC, teams with better records from 2011---2017 are Green Bay and Seattle with New Orleans, Atlanta and Carolina all being roughly the same. Green Bay,Seattle and the Saints have also one coach during that period but only GB and Seattle have played consistent playoff caliber football over that period. The Saints, Falcons and Panthers have been up and down over the seven years much like the Cowboys.

Atlanta and Carolina both changed coaches in the JG era. Interestingly Dallas interviewed Ron Rivera for HC before settling on Garrett long term in 2011 so Ron Rivera and the Panthers are a very good comparison. Both Rivera and JG started as HC's at about the same time. For comparison only. and not to start some debate about Garrett versus Rivera as HC's, Rivera's teams have been to 7 playoff games during that time losing 4 and winning 3, the big loss being in the SB. Garrett lead teams have been to 3 playoff games during that time. Winning 1 and losing two with a bye in 2016 and playing one less playoff game than the Panthers because of their best overall record.

That's all I can add. 4 teams have had more success than Dallas from 2011-2017 if we measure success by Conference Championships. NE, Pittsburgh, Seattle and Green Bay. 6 others have had some success but other than Atlanta and Carolina (one NFC championship each) none have won anything really. So that's 10 teams out of 32 who have had more success (depending on how you measure success, playoff wins for most) than Dallas and 22 who haven't. Just perspective. No love for JG or hate. It is what it is

 

[Stash]

How were those numbers last year? I’m sorry but I can’t help but think it’s much more of a doom and gloom after missing the playoffs.

Even last year the Jerry supporters were out how he was turning the corner.

It's certainly a factor. I can so for me personally. I've never been a Garrett guy and anyone and everyone can attest to that. I've been beating this drum for years, and going round and round with many fans who felt differently about him, to an incredible degree. Some said he was the next Landry. I said he was the next Campo.

And in 2014, I was watching the success and started to think "hey, maybe he's getting it?" , "maybe he is coming around and growing into the role?"

And then 2015 happened. Romo went down and their house of cards with him. They showed for almost an entire season that they were clueless. They had no answers whatsoever about what to do. Completely player reliant. In this case, on Romo. One can go and research their record-setting ineptitude with anyone but him at quarterback.

And then 2016 happened, with the great draft, and the young blood. The offense looked different, the playcalling was different, and the results were different. Until the playoffs. And then the coaches and playcalling that I had feared returned with a vengeance.

And then in 2017, we'll we all saw how that went. Even the most optimistic fans can look at this "winning season" and see it for the Sham that it is. Given the trainwrecks around the league, you couldn't ask for an easier schedule, and they still struggled mightily. Eeking out a meaningless "win one for the Clapper" victory against the 3rd stringers of an Eagles team looking ahead to the playoffs. It was a meaningless as when the roles were reversed in 2016.

So, in honesty, I've tried to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, more than once. I tried coming around on him. But after 7-plus years in the top seat, and a "coaching career" that spans over a decade, it's obvious what he is and what he isn't.

He's a good talker who knows how to guard everything he says, and he knows what he's supposed to say about what it takes to win. But when it comes to the X's and O's and play design, scheme, and innovation, not only is he not a help, but he's a liability.

 

[DenCWBY]

Starting a #4 overall rookie RB, imagine that?

And starting Dak was all by accident too. If 2nd string KMoore would not have broken his ankle at the time TR went down, our wonderfully enlightened HC would have sent K Moore to start that year. For all we know, Dak may have been holding a clipboard that year. As they say, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

 

[CATCH17]

How were those numbers last year? I’m sorry but I can’t help but think it’s much more of a doom and gloom after missing the playoffs.

Even last year the Jerry supporters were out how he was turning the corner.

I think Jerry does a good job of providing these coaches with talented players but where he fails the team and fan base is that he doesn't put value on real NFL head coaches.

He wants puppets.

We need a bigtime coach here in Dallas. Not some guy getting his first gig with no experience. Save that for the colleges.

We wasted Tony Romo's career and we will continue to waste other legendary Cowboys careers as long as Garrett is the coach.

Even if the guy won a Superbowl there is no way he could have success with any kind of consistency because he is just a line up and go get'em type of coach and you have to be more then that to sustain success.

 

[Doomsay]

And starting Dak was all by accident too. If 2nd string KMoore would not have broken his ankle at the time TR went down, our wonderfully enlightened HC would have sent K Moore to start that year. For all we know, Dak may have been holding a clipboard that year. As they say, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

You are not wrong.

 

[Diehardblues]

It's certainly a factor. I can so for me personally. I've never been a Garrett guy and anyone and everyone can attest to that. I've been beating this drum for years, and going round and round with many fans who felt differently about him, to an incredible degree. Some said he was the next Landry. I said he was the next Campo.

And in 2014, I was watching the success and started to think "hey, maybe he's getting it?" , "maybe he is coming around and growing into the role?"

And then 2015 happened. Romo went down and their house of cards with him. They showed for almost an entire season that they were clueless. They had no answers whatsoever about what to do. Completely player reliant. In this case, on Romo. One can go and research their record-setting ineptitude with anyone but him at quarterback.

And then 2016 happened, with the great draft, and the young blood. The offense looked different, the playcalling was different, and the results were different. Until the playoffs. And then the coaches and playcalling that I had feared returned with a vengeance.

And then in 2017, we'll we all saw how that went. Even the most optimistic fans can look at this "winning season" and see it for the Sham that it is. Given the trainwrecks around the league, you couldn't ask for an easier schedule, and they still struggled mightily. Eeking out a meaningless "win one for the Clapper" victory against the 3rd stringers of an Eagles team looking ahead to the playoffs. It was a meaningless as when the roles were reversed in 2016.

So, in honesty, I've tried to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, more than once. I tried coming around on him. But after 7-plus years in the top seat, and a "coaching career" that spans over a decade, it's obvious what he is and what he isn't.

He's a good talker who knows how to guard everything he says, and he knows what he's supposed to say about what it takes to win. But when it comes to the X's and O's and play design, scheme, and innovation, not only is he not a help, but he's a liability.

Yep.. a good example how more talent and all of the talent on the field makes a difference with a lesser coach.

Cowboys fans need to come to some resolution that greater coaches aren’t a viable option with Jerry. It is what it is. But more elite talent as we’ve seen can make a difference. Will it be enough? Not yet but it’s my greatest hope.

 

[Diehardblues]

A better defense would go a long way. A more elite QB.

It’s tough to win in the playoffs without one of these.

 

[Sydla]

with salary cap and free agency there is no way you build a roster than can over come coaching in the league now coaching is one the things that has to be very good for you to advance in the playoffs

Exactly.

Garrett might be able to win something of note if you hand him an early 90s Cowboys roster.

But you can't build a team like that anymore with FA and salary cap implications. At some point, your coach has to make up for any shortcoming your roster has. Garrett can't do that, unfortunately.

 

[Diehardblues]

Exactly.

Garrett might be able to win something of note if you hand him an early 90s Cowboys roster.

But you can't build a team like that anymore with FA and salary cap implications. At some point, your coach has to make up for any shortcoming your roster has. Garrett can't do that, unfortunately.

So, we’re expecting our coaching staff to overcome a lesser talented roster? Why?

And we expect Jerry to bring in a coach like this?

These appear unrealistic expectations .

 

[visionary]

What teams in NFC playoffs do you think we’re a better team than?

This year is an especially bitter pill to swallow
NFC was wide open this year with no Rodgers and the no 1 seed (Philly) without their QB

But the way we were playing at the end was total crap

LA, Atlanta, NO, Vikings all would beat us

Against philly we would have a chance because Wentz is not there but just see how badly we performed against their back ups when they had nothing to play for.

We would have a chance against Carolina depending on which Cam shows up

In essence very low likelihood we make it to the NFC CG even

JMO

 

[visionary]

So, we’re expecting our coaching staff to overcome a lesser talented roster? Why?

And we expect Jerry to bring in a coach like this?

These appear unrealistic expectations .

It's not about a "less talented roster"
All teams have flaws and deficiencies and you can't have great players at every position and then they get injured

Your coaching staff has to be able to overcome these issues if you want to win a SB

That is the reality of NFL today

 

[Diehardblues]

It's not about a "less talented roster"
All teams have flaws and deficiencies and you can't have great players at every position and then they get injured

Your coaching staff has to be able to overcome these issues if you want to win a SB

That is the reality of NFL today

I understand but that’s not our reality. We need all of our talent .

 

[Diehardblues]

I understand Garretts shortcomings but why is here ?

Who names a coach with only 2 years as QB coach with no prior OC or HC experience “ the future of the Dallas Cowboys”.

I don’t believe our goals and expectations are properly aligned with Jerry’s agendas?

 

[Stash]

Yep.. a good example how more talent and all of the talent on the field makes a difference with a lesser coach.

Cowboys fans need to come to some resolution that greater coaches aren’t a viable option with Jerry. It is what it is. But more elite talent as we’ve seen can make a difference. Will it be enough? Not yet but it’s my greatest hope.

Talent is your hope, change is mine.

 

[Diehardblues]

Talent is your hope, change is mine.

Change is everyone’s hope but not a reality at this time. In the meantime talent is our best hope.