Garrett's offense

[OmerV]

Motion and misdirection require an entirely new playbook.

The Rams are also not nearly as creative as people like to say they are. They run 1 personnel package, and as more teams catch on to what the Patriots did, they'll struggle more. That Rams offense has every bit the potential to be the Cowboys offense of 07.

No it doen't. It entails tweaking some of the plays in the playbook. And the Cowboys do not run 1 personnel package. On top of the base, they go empty backfield, 2 TE or even 3 TEs at times, the "jumbo package" … there is versatility available within the Cowboys offense if it is tweaked and the game plan and play calling is improved.

 

[Future]

No it doen't. It entails tweaking some of the plays in the playbook. And the Cowboys do not run 1 personnel package. On top of the base, they go empty backfield, 2 TE or even 3 TEs at times, the "jumbo package" … there is versatility available within the Cowboys offense if it is tweaked and the game plan and play calling is improved.

Pre-snap motion, misdirection and, really, creating mismatches, is a philosophical change. You don't do that by tweaking some plays. It's a complete overhaul from what they do now.

I didn't say that the Cowboys don't use multiple packages, it's the Rams who don't. But that's what the Cowboys in 07 were like.

 

[Diehardblues]

Garrett certainly makes the calls on going for it or not on 4th down, or going for 2 or an XP after a TD. It's hard to know how much input he might have on other things, but that applies to any head coach that isn't a coordinator. How often did we definitely see Jimmy go to Wannstedt or Norv Turner and tell them to make specific changes? How many times do we see Bellichick do that. That doesn't mean it is or isn't happening, it just means we don't know. That is no different than with Garrett. Red zone plays the team feels will be effective against a particular opponent will be part of the game plan, and game plans don't assume everything will go perfectly and that there will be no ebbs and flows.

I’m assuming that’s why they have headphones on to provide some input throughout the game while also listening in.

 

[Fletch]

Garrett's offense "worked" in 2016 when everything was perfect. He had the best OL in football and a QB who was on fire as a rookie and no real injuries. When this team didn't have the ideal conditions in 2017 and 2018, the offense scuffled and was pretty blah. They seem to have a mentality we will impose our will on you as opposed to keeping defenses on their toes. And that might work when you have a dominant, healthy OL and a TB tearing teams apart. But when there are chinks in that armor, the offense can look pretty shabby.

When was the last time you saw people gushing over the game plan and game called by the Cowboys? Think back to that Rams game in the playoffs. After the game there were two things that were repeatedly noted from that game. One, once again, the offense was fairly predictable and the Rams claimed they had good ideas what we were trying to do on offense, especially in the run game based on formations, etc. And it showed. They shot down Elliott.

Two, the Rams made some fairly significant changes on offense with formations and motion to get our LBs moving prior to the snap to get them out of position. They also adjusted some blocking schemes to take advantage of our telegraphing our stunts.

I can't remember the last time this coaching staff got that kind of praise for being adaptable, etc. Sure, all teams are predictable on offense. But some are more predictable than others and some work hard to mask what they are doing. We don't seem to be one of those teams.

Enter Kellen.

 

[Kaiser]

No it doen't. It entails tweaking some of the plays in the playbook. And the Cowboys do not run 1 personnel package. On top of the base, they go empty backfield, 2 TE or even 3 TEs at times, the "jumbo package" … there is versatility available within the Cowboys offense if it is tweaked and the game plan and play calling is improved.

Great thread. A couple of more factors, last year it was more about what the defense could key on rather than fooling other teams (you rarely fool anyone in the NFL).

Last year teams could key on the short game and run blitz because A) Dallas was going to run more often and B) Linehan called short routes like curls way more than anything else. Safeties would sell out on the underneath routes and were right 19 times out of 20. The 20th time would be a stop and go by Gallup which is a hard pass to complete.

In the past Linehan's style worked fine because we had a dominant OL that gave the QB plenty of time, we had a dominant RB like DeMarco or Zeke and our primary WR in Dez Bryant was a guy that would outmuscle DBs for a ball thrown anywhere near him.

When the OL had a bunch of guys hurt and Dez was no longer a guy who could physically outmatch everyone - you only had the run game. And defenses zeroed in on our run game - which was the right move most of the time.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I only mentioned the Rams to indicate that they use the same plays but disguise them better. I wasn't trying to downgrade their talent and execution. I fully agree that disguising plays better wouldn't matter if they didn't execute.

That is one of the biggest reasons the Pats are successful. Like watching a screen pass, every blocker ahead of the receiver knows which defender to block, executes the block and gets out of the way of the receiver. Many times on the Cowboys screens I see 3 blockers and 3 defenders, but the first blocker lets the first defender through and he gets to our receiver behind the line. The blockers don't understand which is "their guy" to block, or don't adjust if one defender has a clear run to the receiver, etc.

And that execution is perfected in practice, with coaching from the offensive line coach or whoever is in charge of being sure the players know how to block and who to block.

That's why I, and others here, place as much blame on the assistant coaches, and the owner who hires them, as I do on Garrett. He's the head coach, Landry directed the players in practice, ran the game films, etc. but MOST coaches don't. Coaches like Landry are rare. So saying that getting rid of Garrett and installing a new head coach will solve the Cowboys' inability to get to the SB may not be realistic....

 

[Sydla]

That is one of the biggest reasons the Pats are successful. Like watching a screen pass, every blocker ahead of the receiver knows which defender to block, executes the block and gets out of the way of the receiver. Many times on the Cowboys screens I see 3 blockers and 3 defenders, but the first blocker lets the first defender through and he gets to our receiver behind the line. The blockers don't understand which is "their guy" to block, or don't adjust if one defender has a clear run to the receiver, etc.

And that execution is perfected in practice, with coaching from the offensive line coach or whoever is in charge of being sure the players know how to block and who to block.

That's why I, and others here, place as much blame on the assistant coaches, and the owner who hires them, as I do on Garrett. He's the head coach, Landry directed the players in practice, ran the game films, etc. but MOST coaches don't. Coaches like Landry are rare. So saying that getting rid of Garrett and installing a new head coach will solve the Cowboys' inability to get to the SB may not be realistic....

A new HC likely brings in a new vision, new culture and new assistant coaches. It's not about removing Garrett in a vacuum here.

It's about the entire change that goes on through an organization when a new HC comes in. How many times have you seen a team be really successful by keeping the HC who has struggled to win anything of note but suddenly finds great success when he gets a couple of new assistants?

I can't really think of one good example. But that's what we are expecting here.

 

[G2]

Exactly.

The rams imposed their will on us but at the same time we had no idea where the ball was.

Sure we did, right in Anderson and Gurley's hands.

 

[jrumann59]

Garretts offense has also been one of the best in the league under romo and is still pretty good with Dak. The concepts are really good, get down field, get the qb easy completions, few plays behind the line of scrimmage etc. Better playcalling with a few more route combinations will change how people view the offense but the scheme is solid and has been solid for years. Most people don't even know what scheme we run they just read that it's predictable, like you can't predict anyother team by simply watching tape.

It is predictable. The offense has had a lot of one trick pony players, Dez, Cole, Brown, Tavon, Whitehead, Swaim, Harris, etc. You take away what those do best you effectively remove a player from the field. Teams figured out the naked boot and pass to swaim, teams realized Beasely will run his 5 yard option route, tavon or lucky or harris were gonna jet sweep or try a reverse. Dez was gonna back shoulder. The issue of predictability was never so much with the "normal" formations but with the 1 off formations where you had to run specific personnel to run a specific play. It will be nice not having one trick ponies all over a formation. Imagine a formation with Pollard and Austin on the field lined up split out who is gonna get that jet sweep, Cobb in the slot is he going inside or outside.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Kitna said something that I have been trying to get across in some of these threads. It seems some think Garrett has created his own offense that is different than all others, and he will protect his baby at all costs. This is often used as a reason to believe Moore will be handcuffed.

Kitna's words …

”At the younger levels, the greatest thing is you have to learn how to teach and communicate really well,” Kitna said. “There’s really no new plays, it’s how you call them, how you dress them up and when you call them that’s important.”

Bottom line is it doesn't take a major overhaul, or a dramatic departure from everything the Cowboys have done in the past to make a big difference, yet it seems many fans think that it does. I remember reading after the Rams game that the majority of the plays the Rams run were also in the Cowboys playbook, but the difference was the Rams disguised them better with motion and misdirection.

I don't disagree with keeping the same offense. most offenses are blended these days anyway. there is element of different ones in every offense. most route trees, plays, etc. is pretty much the same and every team has them..... Rams run 11-13 basic formations, but run different plays off of each. game day play calling is key key key. which combination of routes do you run from different formations....Linehan ran the same route for all the WRs and TEs and was predictable. I read an article about McVay and how he called a play earlier in the game in the first quarter, just to see how the defense would line up against the formation. the play didn't succeed, but he got what he wanted. later in the 4th quarter, he ran the same formation but different route tree for the recievers and it resulted ina big play. .... so I don't think we need a major over haul, just better game day play calling, which brings me to my last point, that I am concerned about Moore being the game day play caller. this is his first year. defensive coordinators play the same game, showing certain looks against certain formations and try to trap you. How quickly Moore will learn to coutner act the DCs is key key key. play design alone doesn't make you succeed. play calling will help a lot. Moore will stumble. will struggle. specially in middle of the season as there will be a few game tapes on his tendencies, etc. how quickly he adjusts his game calling will determine our success.

 

[ondaedg]

Garretts offense has also been one of the best in the league under romo and is still pretty good with Dak. The concepts are really good, get down field, get the qb easy completions, few plays behind the line of scrimmage etc. Better playcalling with a few more route combinations will change how people view the offense but the scheme is solid and has been solid for years. Most people don't even know what scheme we run they just read that it's predictable, like you can't predict anyother team by simply watching tape.

Then there's Sean Mcvay who thinks the only way to be successful in this league is to have an offense that is as unpredictable as possible. And Doug Pederson running an offense that goes against traditional norms of situational play calling. Both of those offenses are designed to not let DCs predict the play. Garrett's offense is old and predictable hence the struggles we had in 2018.

 

[jrumann59]

Motion and misdirection require an entirely new playbook.

The Rams are also not nearly as creative as people like to say they are. They run 1 personnel package, and as more teams catch on to what the Patriots did, they'll struggle more. That Rams offense has every bit the potential to be the Cowboys offense of 07.

Rams were handcuffed because Gaff was handicapped once the mic was turned off. Goff can't read a defense well enough to go off script, if McVay tells him to look at the DT and run this and then the DT shifts out at 12 seconds on the play clock Goff pretty much reverts to the stock call.

 

[charron]

Then there's Sean Mcvay who thinks the only way to be successful in this league is to have an offense that is as unpredictable as possible. And Doug Pederson running an offense that goes against traditional norms of situational play calling. Both of those offenses are designed to not let DCs predict the play. Garrett's offense is old and predictable hence the struggles we had in 2018.

Every offense is predictable. Even McVays. That didn't use any trickery beating our front 7 and when they line up given down and distance you can still guess what they like to do. But you can watch film on any offense and figure this out, every one but you still have to execute and stop them.

 

[charron]

It is predictable. The offense has had a lot of one trick pony players, Dez, Cole, Brown, Tavon, Whitehead, Swaim, Harris, etc. You take away what those do best you effectively remove a player from the field. Teams figured out the naked boot and pass to swaim, teams realized Beasely will run his 5 yard option route, tavon or lucky or harris were gonna jet sweep or try a reverse. Dez was gonna back shoulder. The issue of predictability was never so much with the "normal" formations but with the 1 off formations where you had to run specific personnel to run a specific play. It will be nice not having one trick ponies all over a formation. Imagine a formation with Pollard and Austin on the field lined up split out who is gonna get that jet sweep, Cobb in the slot is he going inside or outside.

One trick pony's yes, but is that on the player or the offensive scheme or linehans play calling? Same scheme is used by different teams yet some are more effective since the play calling has greater variations. That's on the OC not the scheme. I would say some of the pigeonholing is also on the coaches not making these wr's run the full route tree. But my point along with the OP is that the scheme is fine, it's the play calling that needs adjusting.

 

[Future]

Rams were handcuffed because Gaff was handicapped once the mic was turned off. Goff can't read a defense well enough to go off script, if McVay tells him to look at the DT and run this and then the DT shifts out at 12 seconds on the play clock Goff pretty much reverts to the stock call.

Right. This is effectively the same problem as Dallas had with other teams knowing their hots and audibles in 2007 and 2008.

 

[jrumann59]

One trick pony's yes, but is that on the player or the offensive scheme or linehans play calling? Same scheme is used by different teams yet some are more effective since the play calling has greater variations. That's on the OC not the scheme. I would say some of the pigeonholing is also on the coaches not making these wr's run the full route tree. But my point along with the OP is that the scheme is fine, it's the play calling that needs adjusting.

It was probably both, I think JG and SL were to blame for note challenging these guys to work on other things. But Cole was never going to run outside routes because physically he was no threat, Dez could have been a better route runner that is on the coaches

 

[ondaedg]

Every offense is predictable. Even McVays. That didn't use any trickery beating our front 7 and when they line up given down and distance you can still guess what they like to do. But you can watch film on any offense and figure this out, every one but you still have to execute and stop them.

I agree execution is important but they bring a coaching advantage to every game that we didn't have taking some of the pressure off of the players. No team passed on 1st down more than the Rams did. No team runs all of their plays (both run and pass) from the same 3WR, 1TE, 1RB package than the Rams. No team runs more play action than the Rams. They're not even in the same universe as we are when it comes to predictability and their visit to the Super Bowl is proof of that.

 

[panchucko]

So your saying that our guys won’t have to beat their guys Mano a Mano on every play to be successful, we are going to throw some bells and whistles to help our guys

 

[charron]

I agree execution is important but they bring a coaching advantage to every game that we didn't have taking some of the pressure off of the players. No team passed on 1st down more than the Rams did. No team runs all of their plays (both run and pass) from the same 3WR, 1TE, 1RB package than the Rams. No team runs more play action than the Rams. They're not even in the same universe as we are when it comes to predictability and their visit to the Super Bowl is proof of that.

They also had a very talented roster. Your most unpredictable team scored a wopping 3 points in the SB. Guessing their unpredictability wasn't catching anyone by surprise.

 

[OmerV]

Pre-snap motion, misdirection and, really, creating mismatches, is a philosophical change. You don't do that by tweaking some plays. It's a complete overhaul from what they do now.

I didn't say that the Cowboys don't use multiple packages, it's the Rams who don't. But that's what the Cowboys in 07 were like.

I'm talking about the "scheme" - the "system", not the mindset. To make the "scheme" or "system" work with some shifts and motion merely requires tweaking plays. A slant pattern is still a slant pattern whether one of the receivers motions from one side to the other before the snap or if he starts on the other side. That's just disguising existing plays, or as Kitna referred to it, how you "dress it up".

As far as whether the Rams use multiple packages, why do I care? That doesn't change what I said about them running mostly plays the Cowboys also have in their playbook, only "dressed up" a little differently. And it's not just the Rams. There really isn't a huge array of different plays other teams have in their playbooks either. It's, as Kitna said, " … how you call them, how you dress them up and when you call them that’s important.”