Getting a legit FS is just as big a need as getting Dline help

[texbumthelife]

The problem with the logic in this thread is, the safeties in this class don't have nearly the upside and potential that Earl Thomas showed.

Dix can't cover to save his life. He lacks lateral quickness and change of direction skill-which means he is not going to be great at closing distance. He doesn't have great instincts with the ball in the air and was quite often a step late in college. He is a downhill safety who should be playing in a zone scheme close to the LOS so he can read and react. He would be most useful on a team using a lot of cover-3 and cover-1 looks so he can stay near the LOS. He is much closer to a Chancellor skill set, than Earl Thomas.

Pryor is a little more rangy, but still not nearly as instinctual as Earl Thomas. He may be able to come in and help this defense right away, but not nearly as impactful as another legit pass rusher. If Pryor somehow slipped to the second, I might be willing to trade up to get him, but probably not. This team needs to much to move up for any one player.

 

[reddyuta]

The problem with the logic in this thread is, the safeties in this class don't have nearly the upside and potential that Earl Thomas showed.

Dix can't cover to save his life. He lacks lateral quickness and change of direction skill-which means he is not going to be great at closing distance. He doesn't have great instincts with the ball in the air and was quite often a step late in college. He is a downhill safety who should be playing in a zone scheme close to the LOS so he can read and react. He would be most useful on a team using a lot of cover-3 and cover-1 looks so he can stay near the LOS. He is much closer to a Chancellor skill set, than Earl Thomas.

Pryor is a little more rangy, but still not nearly as instinctual as Earl Thomas. He may be able to come in and help this defense right away, but not nearly as impactful as another legit pass rusher. If Pryor somehow slipped to the second, I might be willing to trade up to get him, but probably not. This team needs to much to move up for any one player.

you may have to wait indefinitely to find the next Earl Thomas,that guy is HOF bound if he can stay healthy.

 

[texbumthelife]

you may have to wait indefinitely to find the next Earl Thomas,that guy is HOF bound if he can stay healthy.

Im not the one making those comparisons and using them to show why we should take a safety over DL. No safety in this draft is going to come in and have the immediate impact a pass rusher will. That's my point. My other point is, no safety in this draft is worthy of a first round selection.

 

[reddyuta]

Im not the one making those comparisons and using them to show why we should take a safety over DL. No safety in this draft is going to come in and have the immediate impact a pass rusher will. That's my point. My other point is, no safety in this draft is worthy of a first round selection.

which pass rusher do you think will make a big impact worthy of a 16th pick?

 

[texbumthelife]

which pass rusher do you think will make a big impact worthy of a 16th pick?

Honestly, I would trade back into the 20's if at all possible. Then I would take Donald, Jernigan or Kony in a heartbeat. I think all three are perfect fits for this team and immediately improve our pass rush not only by adding talent and pure rushing ability, but by adding serious depth.

 

[reddyuta]

Honestly, I would trade back into the 20's if at all possible. Then I would take Donald, Jernigan or Kony in a heartbeat. I think all three are perfect fits for this team and immediately improve our pass rush not only by adding talent and pure rushing ability, but by adding serious depth.

on this i agree with you,I would love to have an extra 2nd or 3rd pick.we have so many needs on defense.

 

[texbumthelife]

I think we can swing another 3rd. It's gonna cost us a move back to the 20's and probably a cpl other pics. The problem is, anyone moving ahead of us at that point is probably after the same players.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

The problem with the logic in this thread is, the safeties in this class don't have nearly the upside and potential that Earl Thomas showed.

Dix can't cover to save his life. He lacks lateral quickness and change of direction skill-which means he is not going to be great at closing distance. He doesn't have great instincts with the ball in the air and was quite often a step late in college. He is a downhill safety who should be playing in a zone scheme close to the LOS so he can read and react. He would be most useful on a team using a lot of cover-3 and cover-1 looks so he can stay near the LOS. He is much closer to a Chancellor skill set, than Earl Thomas.

Pryor is a little more rangy, but still not nearly as instinctual as Earl Thomas. He may be able to come in and help this defense right away, but not nearly as impactful as another legit pass rusher. If Pryor somehow slipped to the second, I might be willing to trade up to get him, but probably not. This team needs to much to move up for any one player.

I didn't compare Clinton-Dix or Pryor to Thomas. I only was outlining how and why Thomas so positively impacts the Seattle D. Didn't say these guys could do the same (to the same extent) to our D.

Keep in mind one thing though- Earl Thomas was the 14th pick in 2010. He wasn't viewed as this can't miss, all-world, guaranteed Ed Reed. He had some warts as a prospect (being 5'10), and so do Ha Ha and Pryor. But don't let revisionist history lead you to believe that there's no chance the top FS prospects this year can't make a similar impact.

I also just disagree with you assessment of Clinton-Dix, but that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[texbumthelife]

I didn't compare Clinton-Dix or Pryor to Thomas. I only was outlining how and why Thomas so positively impacts the Seattle D. Didn't say these guys could do the same (to the same extent) to our D.

Keep in mind one thing though- Earl Thomas was the 14th pick in 2010. He wasn't viewed as this can't miss, all-world, guaranteed Ed Reed. He had some warts as a prospect (being 5'10), and so do Ha Ha and Pryor. But don't let revisionist history lead you to believe that there's no chance the top FS prospects this year can't make a similar impact.

I also just disagree with you assessment of Clinton-Dix, but that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

This may sound unclear, but Dix is more of a "range" guy than a "coverage" guy. He's not necessarily someone you want to play a lot of man with, but he's very capable of closing space quickly. It's actually the primary thing Earl Thomas brings to the Seattle D... Chancellor is used to run with TE's more often, and Thomas is the "eliminator" or "space eater" that allows the other 10 guys to do things they otherwise couldn't (because Thomas has more space "covered" than a typical FS).

Just so we are clear, you did compare him.

And I have no problem with you disagreeing with my assessment. Apparently we both saw things completely differently this year in relation to Dix.

 

[4lifecowboy]

The problem with the logic in this thread is, the safeties in this class don't have nearly the upside and potential that Earl Thomas showed.

Dix can't cover to save his life. He lacks lateral quickness and change of direction skill-which means he is not going to be great at closing distance. He doesn't have great instincts with the ball in the air and was quite often a step late in college. He is a downhill safety who should be playing in a zone scheme close to the LOS so he can read and react. He would be most useful on a team using a lot of cover-3 and cover-1 looks so he can stay near the LOS. He is much closer to a Chancellor skill set, than Earl Thomas.

Pryor is a little more rangy, but still not nearly as instinctual as Earl Thomas. He may be able to come in and help this defense right away, but not nearly as impactful as another legit pass rusher. If Pryor somehow slipped to the second, I might be willing to trade up to get him, but probably not. This team needs to much to move up for any one player.

I believe you're missing the logic of this thread. Like many, you believe taking a DL with the first pick is the only way to improve this team. If you followed my logic thru thread my point is that we can take a starting FS with the first pick and still get a starting DL in the second (even if we had to trade up to the early 2nd or late 1st round to do it). It wouldn't work vice versa cause the two top safeties will be gone by the 20th pick in the 1st round. Either would impact the defensive secondary in a positive way, both of which are on the same if not slightly higher talent plane then Vaccaro (who impacted the NO secondary immediately).

 

[texbumthelife]

I believe you're missing the logic of this thread. Like many, you believe taking a DL with the first pick is the only way to improve this team. If you followed my logic thru thread my point is that we can take a starting FS with the first pick and still get a starting DL in the second (even if we had to trade up to the early 2nd or late 1st round to do it). It wouldn't work vice versa cause the two top safeties will be gone by the 20th pick in the 1st round. Either would impact the defensive secondary in a positive way, both of which are on the same if not slightly higher talent plane then Vaccaro (who impacted the NO secondary immediately).

No, I didn't miss anything. As I already stated, I don't think any safety in this draft is worthy of a first round pick. Period. It's that simple.

Even if one of the safeties was worth a low first round pick, I don't think any safety is as valuable to this team as some of the pass rushers who absolutely will not be available in the second round either. I wouldn't jump the gun for a first round safety and then pray a good pass rusher slips through the cracks. I would address the most glaring need first and if a good safety slides, then I would think about trading up in the second round.

I think your logic is faulty. DL is a much bigger need than safety. I am not willing to gamble and pray one of the good pass rushers slips through the cracks just because the two best safeties will be gone in the second round. Hell, if I was drafting I probably wouldn't take safety in the second round either, even if both these guys slid to our pick. I don't think this team can afford to just hope to get a starter in the second round. This team has to go after the best pass rusher possible.

It's like you forgot the triage unit that was our DL last season. I don't want to see another street FA playing snaps for this defensive line. Period.

 

[4lifecowboy]

No, I didn't miss anything. As I already stated, I don't think any safety in this draft is worthy of a first round pick. Period. It's that simple.

Even if one of the safeties was worth a low first round pick, I don't think any safety is as valuable to this team as some of the pass rushers who absolutely will not be available in the second round either. I wouldn't jump the gun for a first round safety and then pray a good pass rusher slips through the cracks. I would address the most glaring need first and if a good safety slides, then I would think about trading up in the second round.

I think your logic is faulty. DL is a much bigger need than safety. I am not willing to gamble and pray one of the good pass rushers slips through the cracks just because the two best safeties will be gone in the second round. Hell, if I was drafting I probably wouldn't take safety in the second round either, even if both these guys slid to our pick. I don't think this team can afford to just hope to get a starter in the second round. This team has to go after the best pass rusher possible.

It's like you forgot the triage unit that was our DL last season. I don't want to see another street FA playing snaps for this defensive line. Period.

I think you are the one with the faulty logic, you contradict yourself. What we lack is defensive playmakers and I have simply stated we can come out of this draft with at least two by drafting a safety (which would have the greatest chance of being there @ 16-17) or linebacker if one fell to our first pick. Though DL needs to be addressed it doesn't have to be done with our first pick. Plus we have a few coming back that were in "triage" last year. Plus we could target some middle level free agents like Melton, Joseph, Bennett, just to name a few. Add a Donald or Kony to that hall and the DL is upgraded.

Honestly, I would trade back into the 20's if at all possible. Then I would take Donald, Jernigan or Kony in a heartbeat. I think all three are perfect fits for this team and immediately improve our pass rush not only by adding talent and pure rushing ability, but by adding serious depth.

You yourself stated that a DL would be there in the late 1st which we could trade back up to with our second and third round pick.

 

[texbumthelife]

I think you are the one with the faulty logic, you contradict yourself. What we lack is defensive playmakers and I have simply stated we can come out of this draft with at least two by drafting a safety (which would have the greatest chance of being there @ 16-17) or linebacker if one fell to our first pick. Though DL needs to be addressed it doesn't have to be done with our first pick. Plus we have a few coming back that were in "triage" last year. Plus we could target some middle level free agents like Melton, Joseph, Bennett, just to name a few. Add a Donald or Kony to that hall and the DL is upgraded.



You yourself stated that a DL would be there in the late 1st which we could trade back up to with our second and third round pick.

Honestly, this thought process scares me and I didn't contradict anything. You want to reach for a safety and then pray we can trade away a third round pick to move back up and get a DL? This is the logic that has left this roster completely top heavy and lacking the talent to get it done. We can fix the biggest issue on this team, the defensive line, this year. In one draft.

Obviously we have very different ideas about how to do things. I can respect that. Nothing else really to discuss. I can agree to disagree.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

And this is what 8-8 does to us...

Seriously though it's fine to have conflicting opinions. We're all adults here.

 

[xwalker]

Dix can't cover to save his life. He lacks lateral quickness and change of direction skill-which means he is not going to be great at closing distance. He doesn't have great instincts with the ball in the air and was quite often a step late in college. He is a downhill safety who should be playing in a zone scheme close to the LOS so he can read and react. He would be most useful on a team using a lot of cover-3 and cover-1 looks so he can stay near the LOS. He is much closer to a Chancellor skill set, than Earl Thomas.

That is the exact opposite of most opinions of Dix.

 

[texbumthelife]

That is the exact opposite of most opinions of Dix.

I know that. Even just because of this thread I have gone back and watched. I just don't see it. He is a good player, don't get me wrong, but he is just not a 1st round talent to me. He could absolutely come out and totally prove me wrong, but I just don't think he will be as big a difference maker as many others do.

 

[xwalker]

I know that. Even just because of this thread I have gone back and watched. I just don't see it. He is a good player, don't get me wrong, but he is just not a 1st round talent to me. He could absolutely come out and totally prove me wrong, but I just don't think he will be as big a difference maker as many others do.

I'm not really referring to his exact ranking, but the fact that he is considered a good pass defender that is not a great in the box type Safety.

 

[texbumthelife]

I'm not really referring to his exact ranking, but the fact that he is considered a good pass defender that is not a great in the box type Safety.

That's the opposite of what I took away from his play. I know early on he was an up top defender almost exclusively, but he really made his name when Saban started using him closer to the LOS and in the short zones.

 

[Macnalty]

I'm not really referring to his exact ranking, but the fact that he is considered a good pass defender that is not a great in the box type Safety.

I watched film on a lot of guys this weekend for the draft. Ha-ha looks like he's can be a really good strong safety that is much more comfortable playing downhill than in deep coverage. If we took him it would be like having 2 Barry Churches back there. I don't like Pryor from Louisville, can't tackle and takes poor angles that negate his speed IMO. If these two are the best we should probably look for another position early on in the draft.

 

[LatinMind]

IMO there is no clear cut FS in this draft. Dallas best bet if they were looking at Fs it would have to be FA. But i think this team will go with Wilcox. He was coming on before he got hurt.