Giant black hole should not even exist says stunned scientists

Runwildboys

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Our understanding of physics breaks down at the singularity. Black holes are often described as regions in space where there is immense mass without physical volume and that’s the mystery; how can matter be annihilated and gravity be so extreme not even light can escape? Black holes are like a rip in the fabric of space and time.
Singularities are one of the reasons for string theory. They know that when the answer to an equation is something that's infinitely small, the premise is wrong. That's why they're trying to find a unifying theory between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

I saw one thing that shows what different layers they believe make up a black hole, and they were all incredibly dense and solid.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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Singularities are one of the reasons for string theory. They know that when the answer to an equation is something that's infinitely small, the premise is wrong. That's why they're trying to find a unifying theory between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

I saw one thing that shows what different layers they believe make up a black hole, and they were all incredibly dense and solid.

Interesting. Share the link if you remember what it was; I’d like to watch that.
 

YosemiteSam

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A thought I always had is a singularity is the point where mass as we know it breaks down. Like an atom. He has a nuclei and electrons on very specific orbits depending on the type of atom. We know that even electrons have a very small amount of mass, but it does have mass.

At some point, a gravitational field theoretically could become so strong that even that electron cannot maintain its orbit around whatever nuclei it's orbiting. At that point, mass (the atom) is no longer an atom as we know it. It's crushed down into what we call a singularity.

So lets ask the question. What is a singularity? Well, in science a gravitational singularity is a point in space where literally space (coordinates) and time (literal time) cease to exist / function as we know it in normal space-time. We (humans) can perceive space in three dimensions, but we also know that gravity is fully capable of manipulating space which was predicted by Einstein and an experiment dreamed up by Sir Frank Watson Dyson later confirmed.

We also know that gravity can affect time through the effects of time dilation. This tells us that time moves more slowly the closer to a massive object you are. (even though we do not perceive the difference in real time) Well, the closer to a black hole you get, the more time slows down. (though as noted above, we would experience it like any other rate of time)

From from the previously two paragraphs, we know space gets squished down where miles of space become a point and time slows down where to someone from the outside, years would equate to minutes or maybe even seconds inside the black hole's Schwarzschild radius. (aka event horizon)

Just a quick note, just because time gets squished down like space, time never becomes infinite as some have said. Time is finite and as noted. We would experience events inside of Schwarzschild radius at speeds we expect events to occur outside of it. People outside looking in would see it happen much more slowly. Also to note, some people have said you would never see the image of someone falling in ever go away because the photons are stuck between exiting black hole and the pull of gravity and it would be like a photo never changing. That too isn't true either. Redshift would cause the image (colors of light) to fade to black over time as the light waves frequency get stretched out. It would be more like the Schwarzschild radius overcomes the image of those falling in.

Anyway, back to my original though. (very easy to go off on a tangent with these awesome topics) Once an atom is no longer an atom due to it being crushed. What is it? Not only that, at what point does many objects become one object if there is no "space" between the mass they are made up of? The singularity.

There is also the note that black holes create rips in space-time. While I don't have a great grasp on this, I want to point out that it's not quite as clear as it seems. You see examples of E=MC squared as a stretchy rubber mat, but that is not what space is. It's more of a manifold. I would also like to point out that if there was a rip that you could go through. Wouldn't the mass of the black hole go through it thereby lowering the mass within the point in space-time that the black hole existed in the first place? Black holes are only thought to lose mass via Hawking Radiation.

When you see (bare with me here) a black hole. That black hole is exactly where you see it. There is no deep hole that you fall "down" into. Though in the strictest sense, you are falling into it. As you move towards it your moving through space even if that space is stretched or compressed. That space that you traveled as you fall is much longer distance than it appears from the outside. (though like falling in normal space, the longer you fall. The more speed you pick up. Especially if there isn't anything like air to create friction to slow you down)
 

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

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A simple yes or no question.

So an astronaut goes out on a spacewalk with a bowling ball and a apple. He holds them perfectly still about a foot apart. When he releases these two perfectly still objects, what does the apple start to do? Does the apple start to move toward the bowling ball?

Hell no. Einstein's theory of general relativity is garbage. And everything derivative of that theory is garbage. Hey Einstein we live in an anomaly of astrological proportions. No where else known to man is there a gravitational field being generated inside of an electromagnetic field. Name another moon or planet has a super heated portion to its atmosphere? This solar system, the next solar system, this galaxy, the next galaxy...the only place known to man where a gravitational field is being generated inside of an electromagnetic field is Earth. So the laws of physics that apply here on Earth do not apply in outer space. They are not generally related.

So an apple would move toward a bowling ball, if placed on a trampoline, here on Earth. But if you literally took a trampoline into outer space and perform the same test it will not work. We live on an anomaly. A breathable atmosphere, anomaly. Water on our surface, anomaly. Valcanic eruptions, anomaly. Earth quakes, anomaly. Large scale life, anomaly.

You just can't say if it happens here it must happen everywhere. So yes a object with a greater mass or a greater density would weigh more on our anomaly. But how can one object weigh more than the next object in a weightless environment?

How many of you guys actually believe that if you place a bowling ball and an apple on a trampoline in space, the apple would move toward the bowling ball?

Einstein and his dumb not true theory.
 

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country

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One idea gave birth to the next idea. Then that idea gave birth to the next. So the base idea of the black hole theory is three dimension objects should not exist anywhere in the universe.

A three dimensional object, like the chair someone sits in, has to produce its own gravitational field to counteract the gravitational field of earth. A chair, without it's own gravitational field, would be a two dimensional object according to this train of thought.

So with his general relativity theory he applied that train of thought to space. The sun and planets have to produce there own gravitational fields to counteract universal gravity. That idea gave birth to the fabric of space theory and the black hole theory. The black hole idea gave birth to time dilation.

So in order to believe in the black hole theory one must first believe that three dimensional objects should not exist.

So universal gravity by Isaac Newton, dumb. Three dimensional object shouldn't exist, dumb. Every object has it's own gravitational field, dumb. Black hole theory, dumb. The fabric of space, dump. Time dilation, dumb.

The depths of mankind imagination never fails to entertain. Thunder Cats hooooo. There is a reason they call them theories.
 

Runwildboys

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That's one long and winding rabbit hole....with magic mushrooms at the beginning.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Are these the same cats we rely on for runaway asteroid warnings?

Surprised scientists are a concern. That's why I never threw a surprise birthday party for one.

IDK Coach. I guess I feel like it's better to have a surprised scientist then one totally ignorant and oblivious of a Black Hole, able to cook our planet from a trillion miles away.

:laugh:
 

Runwildboys

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IDK Coach. I guess I feel like it's better to have a surprised scientist then one totally ignorant and oblivious of a Black Hole, able to cook our planet from a trillion miles away.

:laugh:
Well, it's not like we'd have any warning whatsoever if a gamma ray burst came at us at the speed of light.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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A simple yes or no question.

So an astronaut goes out on a spacewalk with a bowling ball and a apple. He holds them perfectly still about a foot apart. When he releases these two perfectly still objects, what does the apple start to do? Does the apple start to move toward the bowling ball?

Hell no. Einstein's theory of general relativity is garbage. And everything derivative of that theory is garbage. Hey Einstein we live in an anomaly of astrological proportions. No where else known to man is there a gravitational field being generated inside of an electromagnetic field. Name another moon or planet has a super heated portion to its atmosphere? This solar system, the next solar system, this galaxy, the next galaxy...the only place known to man where a gravitational field is being generated inside of an electromagnetic field is Earth. So the laws of physics that apply here on Earth do not apply in outer space. They are not generally related.

So an apple would move toward a bowling ball, if placed on a trampoline, here on Earth. But if you literally took a trampoline into outer space and perform the same test it will not work. We live on an anomaly. A breathable atmosphere, anomaly. Water on our surface, anomaly. Valcanic eruptions, anomaly. Earth quakes, anomaly. Large scale life, anomaly.

You just can't say if it happens here it must happen everywhere. So yes a object with a greater mass or a greater density would weigh more on our anomaly. But how can one object weigh more than the next object in a weightless environment?

How many of you guys actually believe that if you place a bowling ball and an apple on a trampoline in space, the apple would move toward the bowling ball?

Einstein and his dumb not true theory.

Lol, that’s exactly what it would do.

The apple would gravitate toward the object with more mass presuming there wasn’t a larger force (gravitational mass) acting on it.
 

YosemiteSam

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http://www.businessinsider.com/astr...le-in-solar-system-planet-2019-11?jwsource=cl
So, Planet 9 may be out...but I would have thought that a black hole (even a small primordial one) would feast on the Kuiper Belt eventually.
Well. I'm still skeptical, but do admit it is completely possible. Just remember, this black hole would likely have the mass of a planet, so even though it's a black hole. It's an incredibly small one mass wise. So it would act like a planet's gravitational field.

I don't have enough information about black hole density to determine how much mass that would be. (the mass of Jupiter?) I read that based on the Earth's mass. If the Earth were crushed into a black hole, it would be approximately 0.35 of an inch (or 0.78 centimeters) wide.

With that said, the mass of the black hole would likely have to be larger than Jupiter, though I don't know how much larger.

That said, the smallest black hole ever found was 3.8 solar masses and it's Schwarzschild radius (event horizon) was only 15 miles wide. The theoretical Chandrasekhar limit for a white dwarf star is 1.4 solar masses and above 3.2 solar masses to become a black hole. (no idea what happens between those limits)

Now, that is based on a dying star. Black holes can be created with less mass, they just cannot do it from normal gravitational collapse that I know of. (ie, it would need help)
 

Runwildboys

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Well. I'm still skeptical, but do admit it is completely possible. Just remember, this black hole would likely have the mass of a planet, so even though it's a black hole. It's an incredibly small one mass wise. So it would act like a planet's gravitational field.

I don't have enough information about black hole density to determine how much mass that would be. (the mass of Jupiter?) I read that based on the Earth's mass. If the Earth were crushed into a black hole, it would be approximately 0.35 of an inch (or 0.78 centimeters) wide.

With that said, the mass of the black hole would likely have to be larger than Jupiter, though I don't know how much larger.

That said, the smallest black hole ever found was 3.8 solar masses and it's Schwarzschild radius (event horizon) was only 15 miles wide. The theoretical Chandrasekhar limit for a white dwarf star is 1.4 solar masses and above 3.2 solar masses to become a black hole. (no idea what happens between those limits)

Now, that is based on a dying star. Black holes can be created with less mass, they just cannot do it from normal gravitational collapse that I know of. (ie, it would need help)
I realize it's small, but I would have thought it would grow rather quickly (relatively speaking), with all the materials in the Kuiper Belt.

I suppose it could be just keeping pace in orbit with all the asteroids in the belt.
 

YosemiteSam

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I realize it's small, but I would have thought it would grow rather quickly (relatively speaking), with all the materials in the Kuiper Belt.

I suppose it could be just keeping pace in orbit with all the asteroids in the belt.
If it's been there long enough. Like planets, it could have cleared it's orbit.

Also to take into account. Space is BIG. When you see pictures of an astroid belt in pictures. Yeah, it doesn't actually look like that. It looks like a lot of empty space!

Think of it like this. A small lunch room with 100 people in it. That is the pictures you see. What it's really like is 100 people standing inside Cowboys Stadium. ....and that doesn't even remotely do the truth justice. It's closer to 100 fleas inside a Cowboys Stadium 10000x its actual size. The solar system is a whole lot of empty space.
 

Runwildboys

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If it's been there long enough. Like planets, it could have cleared it's orbit.

Also to take into account. Space is BIG. When you see pictures of an astroid belt in pictures. Yeah, it doesn't actually look like that. It looks like a lot of empty space!

Think of it like this. A small lunch room with 100 people in it. That is the pictures you see. What it's really like is 100 people standing inside Cowboys Stadium. ....and that doesn't even remotely do the truth justice. It's closer to 100 fleas inside a Cowboys Stadium 10000x its actual size. The solar system is a whole lot of empty space.
Oh I get that, but just thinking about it being a black hole makes me exaggerate its power of destruction. When I think about that same gravitational pull emanating from a planet, I get a better sense of how little mass asteroids and such would add to it.
 
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