Gryphon
Merge Ahead
- Messages
- 3,407
- Reaction score
- 31
Irvin, Matthews among six voted into Hall of Fame : Nasif08 : 2/3/07 2:55 PM
Damn did not want Irvin's ego to get any bigger
Link (new window)
Follow up comments...
Irvin getting in ahead of Monk : BigBlueCane : 2/3/07 3:00 PM
is disgusting, the hall continues to be a joke.
It kills me that Irwin got in, let alone before Monk. : yatqb : 2/3/07 3:00 PM
.
They should have made Irvin wait longer. : Exit 172 : 2/3/07 3:00 PM
He brought a lot of bad press to the NFL for years.
Oh wait, they only make guys like Harry Carson wait...
Beat me to it, Cane. Disgusting. : yatqb : 2/3/07 3:01 PM
.
Irvin is in before Monk? : yankees78 : 2/3/07 3:02 PM
Ew Ew Ew
Those are all deserving guys : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:03 PM
and they didn't and shouldn't have made LT wait. I can't criticize them for letting in a clear Hall of Famer like Irvin in now.
Irvin getting into : ChicagoMarty : 2/3/07 3:04 PM
the HOF is just very depressing news. I just lost a little respect for the HOF and those that vote for it.
They couldn't make LT wait : Exit 172 : 2/3/07 3:05 PM
because he was on the very short list of "Best Linebacker of All Time" candidates.
Irvin wasn't quite that important to the WR position.
Oh well... : OlyWAJintsFan : 2/3/07 3:07 PM
glad to see that Matthews and T. Thomas made it though....I remember Wehrli being good, but not better than Derrick Thomas, Kuechenberg or Zimmerman good.
LT was the best LB ever : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:10 PM
but he was also a big time druggie. Now, Irvin wasn't as great a football player as LT, but when he was playing you knew he was a Hall of Famer. The Football Hall of Fame isn't for Eagle Scouts, and screw all the false standards people try to apply to it.
The Football HOF will continue to be : Rflairr : 2/3/07 3:11 PM
a joke until Art Monk is elected in.
Irvin Should be In, but Monk is More Deserving : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:13 PM
Make your own judgement:
Irvin
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1988 dal | 14 | 1 2 2.0 0 | 32 654 20.4 5 |
| 1989 dal | 6 | 1 6 6.0 0 | 26 378 14.5 2 |
| 1990 dal | 12 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 20 413 20.6 5 |
| 1991 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 93 1523 16.4 8 |
| 1992 dal | 16 | 1 -9 -9.0 0 | 78 1396 17.9 7 |
| 1993 dal | 16 | 2 6 3.0 0 | 88 1330 15.1 7 |
| 1994 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 79 1241 15.7 6 |
| 1995 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 111 1603 14.4 10 |
| 1996 dal | 11 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 64 962 15.0 2 |
| 1997 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 75 1180 15.7 9 |
| 1998 dal | 16 | 1 1 1.0 0 | 74 1057 14.3 1 |
| 1999 dal | 4 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 10 167 16.7 3 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 159 | 6 6 1.0 0 | 750 11904 15.9 65 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Monk
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1980 was | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 58 797 13.7 3 |
| 1981 was | 16 | 1 -5 -5.0 0 | 56 894 16.0 6 |
| 1982 was | 9 | 7 21 3.0 0 | 35 447 12.8 1 |
| 1983 was | 12 | 3 -19 -6.3 0 | 47 746 15.9 5 |
| 1984 was | 16 | 2 18 9.0 0 | 106 1372 12.9 7 |
| 1985 was | 15 | 7 51 7.3 0 | 91 1226 13.5 2 |
| 1986 was | 16 | 4 27 6.8 0 | 73 1068 14.6 4 |
| 1987 was | 9 | 6 63 10.5 0 | 38 483 12.7 6 |
| 1988 was | 16 | 7 46 6.6 0 | 72 946 13.1 5 |
| 1989 was | 16 | 3 8 2.7 0 | 86 1186 13.8 8 |
| 1990 was | 16 | 7 59 8.4 0 | 68 770 11.3 5 |
| 1991 was | 16 | 9 19 2.1 0 | 71 1049 14.8 8 |
| 1992 was | 16 | 6 45 7.5 0 | 46 644 14.0 3 |
| 1993 was | 16 | 1 -1 -1.0 0 | 41 398 9.7 2 |
| 1994 nyj | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 46 581 12.6 3 |
| 1995 phi | 3 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 6 114 19.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 224 | 63 332 5.3 0 | 940 12721 13.5 68 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Irvin : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:15 PM
was more dominant at his peak and injuries ended his career before he could hang around team hopping and compiling like Monk.
Kuchenburg and Monk : LauderdaleMatty : 2/3/07 3:15 PM
deserved to be int it B/4 Irvin. Both for on-field accomplishments, not for Irvins off field past. Great yeah, but on a team with Emmit, Aikman, Novacheck, and Harper, he was part of a great unit. You can make those same arguements for of against Monk and Kuch, so add to the fact that he's been an all time scum bag from his UM days its a shame he got in b/4 those two guys.
Phil in LA : GaryFL : 2/3/07 3:16 PM
Irvin is a borderline HOFer IMO. How can Bob Hayes not be in the NFL Hall of Fame but Michael Irvin is? Irvin's image for all his off the field nonsense and histrionics's on the field helped him get in over a guy like Art Monk who quietly went about his business. Nice message from the NFL the day after the new commissioner makes his meaningless speech about the players and the way they handle their business off the field.
Bahahaha! : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:17 PM
"Hanging around and team hopping and compiling?" Yeah, 2 more seasons and about another 700 yards...please!
Wide receivers in the Hall : HomerJones45 : 2/3/07 3:19 PM
it is going to be difficult to keep a lot of these wide receivers out of the Hall with the numbers they put up nowadays. A lot of guys are going to show up with big career numbers in a relatively short time period.
Art Monk not being in the Hall shows the ignorance of the voters. I am sure he is being looked at as a compiler because of his long career, but voters are forgetting that he played a long time under the old passing rules.
Good for Charlie Sanders who deserved the Hall as did Gene Hickerson. They were great players.
Agree : OlyWAJintsFan : 2/3/07 3:20 PM
that Irvin's peak was higher than Monk's. Irvin played 4 less years than Monk and compiled similar total yards and touchdowns to Monk with fewer reception and higher YPC. I don't have a problem with Irvin in before Monk.
Gary, good post : HomerJones45 : 2/3/07 3:21 PM
Bob Hayes should be in the Hall- period.
Dave : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:21 PM
Bahahahahaha yourself. Irvin>Monk.
Things Like Longevity Count : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:22 PM
I wonder if Irvin's coke habit helped cut short his career?
Phil, I disagree. Monk was a VERY special player, : yatqb : 2/3/07 3:26 PM
as exciting as they come. IMO, Irvin was not better than him. But what's hardest is that the guy has deserved to be in the Hall for 10 years now, and somehow isn't seen as deserving.
Dominant years : HomerJones45 : 2/3/07 3:27 PM
The year Monk led the league with 106 receptions, he was the only guy in the league with over 100 and he finished 17 receptions ahead of the number 2 guy. When Irvin had 111 receptions, he finished 12 receptions behind the league leader and was one of 9 players with 100+ receptions.
Monk was in a class by himself.
Or : Toth029 : 2/3/07 3:27 PM
Maybe something else...
How About the QBs : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:33 PM
Irvin had Troy Aikman and his precision passing his whole career (except his rookie year); Monk had Mark Rypien, Jay Schroeder,Stan Humphries and Doug Williams.
Longevity : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:39 PM
past your peak in football doesn't count for much if it isn't creating wins. Monk took his act to a bad Jets team and a bad Eagles team to finish up. When we played the skins, Sanders and Clark seemed to create more trouble for us. Monk was a catch it and step out sort of guy, Irvin was a physical receiver who, with a few other great young players went from 1-15 to 3 superbowl titles in pretty short order.
moving along to good guys who deserved to get in : Mckee : 2/3/07 3:39 PM
after seeing the bills/giants superbowl and the december bills /giants game where simms went down and bills won 17-13, it reinforced to me that thurman thomas was a wonderful football player and should be in the hall. nice to see it happen.
3 Games : Toth029 : 2/3/07 3:39 PM
With the Eagles?...
Monk : OlyWAJintsFan : 2/3/07 3:42 PM
was great player and will ultimately get in the HOF but to discount Irvin based on his QB and cast you also have to factor in that Monk had Clark, Sanders, Riggins and Theismann for a significant part of his career too.
pretty persistent rumor threw the years : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:45 PM
that Thurm was involved with some unsavory characters who may have had an interest in games.
You Lost Me at Compiler : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:46 PM
But anyway, here are Gary Clark and Michael Irvin's numbers...look familier?
Clark
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1985 was | 16 | 2 10 5.0 0 | 72 926 12.9 5 |
| 1986 was | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 74 1265 17.1 7 |
| 1987 was | 12 | 1 0 0.0 0 | 56 1066 19.0 7 |
| 1988 was | 16 | 2 6 3.0 0 | 59 892 15.1 7 |
| 1989 was | 15 | 2 19 9.5 0 | 79 1229 15.6 9 |
| 1990 was | 16 | 1 1 1.0 0 | 75 1112 14.8 8 |
| 1991 was | 16 | 1 0 0.0 0 | 70 1340 19.1 10 |
| 1992 was | 16 | 2 18 9.0 0 | 64 912 14.2 5 |
| 1993 pho | 14 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 63 818 13.0 4 |
| 1994 ari | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 50 771 15.4 1 |
| 1995 mia | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 37 525 14.2 2 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 167 | 11 54 4.9 0 | 699 10856 15.5 65 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Irvin
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1988 dal | 14 | 1 2 2.0 0 | 32 654 20.4 5 |
| 1989 dal | 6 | 1 6 6.0 0 | 26 378 14.5 2 |
| 1990 dal | 12 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 20 413 20.6 5 |
| 1991 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 93 1523 16.4 8 |
| 1992 dal | 16 | 1 -9 -9.0 0 | 78 1396 17.9 7 |
| 1993 dal | 16 | 2 6 3.0 0 | 88 1330 15.1 7 |
| 1994 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 79 1241 15.7 6 |
| 1995 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 111 1603 14.4 10 |
| 1996 dal | 11 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 64 962 15.0 2 |
| 1997 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 75 1180 15.7 9 |
| 1998 dal | 16 | 1 1 1.0 0 | 74 1057 14.3 1 |
| 1999 dal | 4 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 10 167 16.7 3 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 159 | 6 6 1.0 0 | 750 11904 15.9 65 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Just as I thought : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:48 PM
Gary Clark was better than Monk, too.
Monk is greater than Irvin : Ben in Adirondacks : 2/3/07 3:49 PM
Irvin has fewer catches, fewer yards, fewer TDs. All Irvin leads in is the stabbing teammates in the neck category. If Monk gets points taken away for playing ("compiling"), those taking points away are rewarding someone for not playing. Or catching. Or gaining yards. Or scoring TDs.
He has fewer years : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:51 PM
but just as many titles, too.
Irvin is a better football player : Ben in Adirondacks : 2/3/07 3:53 PM
on the basis of having played less football? I should be the pope of Canton. I never played in the NFL!
juding by the : Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/3/07 3:58 PM
basic stats Irvin is MUCH better than Monk. But obviously there's more to it than basic stats. You really can't make a valid comparison for recievers without knowing the Run-Pass Ratio of their respective teams, the numbers for the other top recievers during their playing days, and how good their QB's were. I'm not going to do all of this, but it's really the only way you can validly compare them.
He gets credit : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:58 PM
for not sticking aroud till he sucked and having a better peak.
Anthony Miller for Canton : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 4:00 PM
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1988 sdg | 16 | 7 45 6.4 0 | 36 526 14.6 3 |
| 1989 sdg | 16 | 4 21 5.2 0 | 75 1252 16.7 10 |
| 1990 sdg | 16 | 3 13 4.3 0 | 63 933 14.8 7 |
| 1991 sdg | 13 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 44 649 14.8 3 |
| 1992 sdg | 16 | 1 -1 -1.0 0 | 72 1060 14.7 7 |
| 1993 sdg | 16 | 1 0 0.0 0 | 84 1162 13.8 7 |
| 1994 den | 16 | 1 3 3.0 0 | 60 1107 18.4 5 |
| 1995 den | 14 | 1 5 5.0 0 | 59 1079 18.3 14 |
| 1996 den | 16 | 3 39 13.0 1 | 56 735 13.1 3 |
| 1997 dal | 16 | 1 6 6.0 0 | 46 645 14.0 4 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 155 | 22 131 6.0 1 | 595 9148 15.4 63 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Credit for not sticking around? : Ben in Adirondacks : 2/3/07 4:02 PM
You remember he left because of an injury, don't you? Of course, if it weren't for that it could have been for assaulting teammates (mom always sais you shouldn''t go running with scissors). Or for holing up with prostitutes and a pile of coke....
Didn't : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 4:02 PM
win enough.
I should point out : Ben in Adirondacks : 2/3/07 4:03 PM
the Pro Football Hall of Fame was a joke long before this particular joke....
Damn did not want Irvin's ego to get any bigger
Link (new window)
Follow up comments...
Irvin getting in ahead of Monk : BigBlueCane : 2/3/07 3:00 PM
is disgusting, the hall continues to be a joke.
It kills me that Irwin got in, let alone before Monk. : yatqb : 2/3/07 3:00 PM
.
They should have made Irvin wait longer. : Exit 172 : 2/3/07 3:00 PM
He brought a lot of bad press to the NFL for years.
Oh wait, they only make guys like Harry Carson wait...
Beat me to it, Cane. Disgusting. : yatqb : 2/3/07 3:01 PM
.
Irvin is in before Monk? : yankees78 : 2/3/07 3:02 PM
Ew Ew Ew
Those are all deserving guys : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:03 PM
and they didn't and shouldn't have made LT wait. I can't criticize them for letting in a clear Hall of Famer like Irvin in now.
Irvin getting into : ChicagoMarty : 2/3/07 3:04 PM
the HOF is just very depressing news. I just lost a little respect for the HOF and those that vote for it.
They couldn't make LT wait : Exit 172 : 2/3/07 3:05 PM
because he was on the very short list of "Best Linebacker of All Time" candidates.
Irvin wasn't quite that important to the WR position.
Oh well... : OlyWAJintsFan : 2/3/07 3:07 PM
glad to see that Matthews and T. Thomas made it though....I remember Wehrli being good, but not better than Derrick Thomas, Kuechenberg or Zimmerman good.
LT was the best LB ever : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:10 PM
but he was also a big time druggie. Now, Irvin wasn't as great a football player as LT, but when he was playing you knew he was a Hall of Famer. The Football Hall of Fame isn't for Eagle Scouts, and screw all the false standards people try to apply to it.
The Football HOF will continue to be : Rflairr : 2/3/07 3:11 PM
a joke until Art Monk is elected in.
Irvin Should be In, but Monk is More Deserving : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:13 PM
Make your own judgement:
Irvin
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1988 dal | 14 | 1 2 2.0 0 | 32 654 20.4 5 |
| 1989 dal | 6 | 1 6 6.0 0 | 26 378 14.5 2 |
| 1990 dal | 12 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 20 413 20.6 5 |
| 1991 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 93 1523 16.4 8 |
| 1992 dal | 16 | 1 -9 -9.0 0 | 78 1396 17.9 7 |
| 1993 dal | 16 | 2 6 3.0 0 | 88 1330 15.1 7 |
| 1994 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 79 1241 15.7 6 |
| 1995 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 111 1603 14.4 10 |
| 1996 dal | 11 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 64 962 15.0 2 |
| 1997 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 75 1180 15.7 9 |
| 1998 dal | 16 | 1 1 1.0 0 | 74 1057 14.3 1 |
| 1999 dal | 4 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 10 167 16.7 3 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 159 | 6 6 1.0 0 | 750 11904 15.9 65 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Monk
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1980 was | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 58 797 13.7 3 |
| 1981 was | 16 | 1 -5 -5.0 0 | 56 894 16.0 6 |
| 1982 was | 9 | 7 21 3.0 0 | 35 447 12.8 1 |
| 1983 was | 12 | 3 -19 -6.3 0 | 47 746 15.9 5 |
| 1984 was | 16 | 2 18 9.0 0 | 106 1372 12.9 7 |
| 1985 was | 15 | 7 51 7.3 0 | 91 1226 13.5 2 |
| 1986 was | 16 | 4 27 6.8 0 | 73 1068 14.6 4 |
| 1987 was | 9 | 6 63 10.5 0 | 38 483 12.7 6 |
| 1988 was | 16 | 7 46 6.6 0 | 72 946 13.1 5 |
| 1989 was | 16 | 3 8 2.7 0 | 86 1186 13.8 8 |
| 1990 was | 16 | 7 59 8.4 0 | 68 770 11.3 5 |
| 1991 was | 16 | 9 19 2.1 0 | 71 1049 14.8 8 |
| 1992 was | 16 | 6 45 7.5 0 | 46 644 14.0 3 |
| 1993 was | 16 | 1 -1 -1.0 0 | 41 398 9.7 2 |
| 1994 nyj | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 46 581 12.6 3 |
| 1995 phi | 3 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 6 114 19.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 224 | 63 332 5.3 0 | 940 12721 13.5 68 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Irvin : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:15 PM
was more dominant at his peak and injuries ended his career before he could hang around team hopping and compiling like Monk.
Kuchenburg and Monk : LauderdaleMatty : 2/3/07 3:15 PM
deserved to be int it B/4 Irvin. Both for on-field accomplishments, not for Irvins off field past. Great yeah, but on a team with Emmit, Aikman, Novacheck, and Harper, he was part of a great unit. You can make those same arguements for of against Monk and Kuch, so add to the fact that he's been an all time scum bag from his UM days its a shame he got in b/4 those two guys.
Phil in LA : GaryFL : 2/3/07 3:16 PM
Irvin is a borderline HOFer IMO. How can Bob Hayes not be in the NFL Hall of Fame but Michael Irvin is? Irvin's image for all his off the field nonsense and histrionics's on the field helped him get in over a guy like Art Monk who quietly went about his business. Nice message from the NFL the day after the new commissioner makes his meaningless speech about the players and the way they handle their business off the field.
Bahahaha! : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:17 PM
"Hanging around and team hopping and compiling?" Yeah, 2 more seasons and about another 700 yards...please!
Wide receivers in the Hall : HomerJones45 : 2/3/07 3:19 PM
it is going to be difficult to keep a lot of these wide receivers out of the Hall with the numbers they put up nowadays. A lot of guys are going to show up with big career numbers in a relatively short time period.
Art Monk not being in the Hall shows the ignorance of the voters. I am sure he is being looked at as a compiler because of his long career, but voters are forgetting that he played a long time under the old passing rules.
Good for Charlie Sanders who deserved the Hall as did Gene Hickerson. They were great players.
Agree : OlyWAJintsFan : 2/3/07 3:20 PM
that Irvin's peak was higher than Monk's. Irvin played 4 less years than Monk and compiled similar total yards and touchdowns to Monk with fewer reception and higher YPC. I don't have a problem with Irvin in before Monk.
Gary, good post : HomerJones45 : 2/3/07 3:21 PM
Bob Hayes should be in the Hall- period.
Dave : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:21 PM
Bahahahahaha yourself. Irvin>Monk.
Things Like Longevity Count : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:22 PM
I wonder if Irvin's coke habit helped cut short his career?
Phil, I disagree. Monk was a VERY special player, : yatqb : 2/3/07 3:26 PM
as exciting as they come. IMO, Irvin was not better than him. But what's hardest is that the guy has deserved to be in the Hall for 10 years now, and somehow isn't seen as deserving.
Dominant years : HomerJones45 : 2/3/07 3:27 PM
The year Monk led the league with 106 receptions, he was the only guy in the league with over 100 and he finished 17 receptions ahead of the number 2 guy. When Irvin had 111 receptions, he finished 12 receptions behind the league leader and was one of 9 players with 100+ receptions.
Monk was in a class by himself.
Or : Toth029 : 2/3/07 3:27 PM
Maybe something else...
How About the QBs : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:33 PM
Irvin had Troy Aikman and his precision passing his whole career (except his rookie year); Monk had Mark Rypien, Jay Schroeder,Stan Humphries and Doug Williams.
Longevity : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:39 PM
past your peak in football doesn't count for much if it isn't creating wins. Monk took his act to a bad Jets team and a bad Eagles team to finish up. When we played the skins, Sanders and Clark seemed to create more trouble for us. Monk was a catch it and step out sort of guy, Irvin was a physical receiver who, with a few other great young players went from 1-15 to 3 superbowl titles in pretty short order.
moving along to good guys who deserved to get in : Mckee : 2/3/07 3:39 PM
after seeing the bills/giants superbowl and the december bills /giants game where simms went down and bills won 17-13, it reinforced to me that thurman thomas was a wonderful football player and should be in the hall. nice to see it happen.
3 Games : Toth029 : 2/3/07 3:39 PM
With the Eagles?...
Monk : OlyWAJintsFan : 2/3/07 3:42 PM
was great player and will ultimately get in the HOF but to discount Irvin based on his QB and cast you also have to factor in that Monk had Clark, Sanders, Riggins and Theismann for a significant part of his career too.
pretty persistent rumor threw the years : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:45 PM
that Thurm was involved with some unsavory characters who may have had an interest in games.
You Lost Me at Compiler : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 3:46 PM
But anyway, here are Gary Clark and Michael Irvin's numbers...look familier?
Clark
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1985 was | 16 | 2 10 5.0 0 | 72 926 12.9 5 |
| 1986 was | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 74 1265 17.1 7 |
| 1987 was | 12 | 1 0 0.0 0 | 56 1066 19.0 7 |
| 1988 was | 16 | 2 6 3.0 0 | 59 892 15.1 7 |
| 1989 was | 15 | 2 19 9.5 0 | 79 1229 15.6 9 |
| 1990 was | 16 | 1 1 1.0 0 | 75 1112 14.8 8 |
| 1991 was | 16 | 1 0 0.0 0 | 70 1340 19.1 10 |
| 1992 was | 16 | 2 18 9.0 0 | 64 912 14.2 5 |
| 1993 pho | 14 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 63 818 13.0 4 |
| 1994 ari | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 50 771 15.4 1 |
| 1995 mia | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 37 525 14.2 2 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 167 | 11 54 4.9 0 | 699 10856 15.5 65 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Irvin
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1988 dal | 14 | 1 2 2.0 0 | 32 654 20.4 5 |
| 1989 dal | 6 | 1 6 6.0 0 | 26 378 14.5 2 |
| 1990 dal | 12 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 20 413 20.6 5 |
| 1991 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 93 1523 16.4 8 |
| 1992 dal | 16 | 1 -9 -9.0 0 | 78 1396 17.9 7 |
| 1993 dal | 16 | 2 6 3.0 0 | 88 1330 15.1 7 |
| 1994 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 79 1241 15.7 6 |
| 1995 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 111 1603 14.4 10 |
| 1996 dal | 11 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 64 962 15.0 2 |
| 1997 dal | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 75 1180 15.7 9 |
| 1998 dal | 16 | 1 1 1.0 0 | 74 1057 14.3 1 |
| 1999 dal | 4 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 10 167 16.7 3 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 159 | 6 6 1.0 0 | 750 11904 15.9 65 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Just as I thought : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:48 PM
Gary Clark was better than Monk, too.
Monk is greater than Irvin : Ben in Adirondacks : 2/3/07 3:49 PM
Irvin has fewer catches, fewer yards, fewer TDs. All Irvin leads in is the stabbing teammates in the neck category. If Monk gets points taken away for playing ("compiling"), those taking points away are rewarding someone for not playing. Or catching. Or gaining yards. Or scoring TDs.
He has fewer years : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:51 PM
but just as many titles, too.
Irvin is a better football player : Ben in Adirondacks : 2/3/07 3:53 PM
on the basis of having played less football? I should be the pope of Canton. I never played in the NFL!
juding by the : Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/3/07 3:58 PM
basic stats Irvin is MUCH better than Monk. But obviously there's more to it than basic stats. You really can't make a valid comparison for recievers without knowing the Run-Pass Ratio of their respective teams, the numbers for the other top recievers during their playing days, and how good their QB's were. I'm not going to do all of this, but it's really the only way you can validly compare them.
He gets credit : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 3:58 PM
for not sticking aroud till he sucked and having a better peak.
Anthony Miller for Canton : Dave in DC : 2/3/07 4:00 PM
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1988 sdg | 16 | 7 45 6.4 0 | 36 526 14.6 3 |
| 1989 sdg | 16 | 4 21 5.2 0 | 75 1252 16.7 10 |
| 1990 sdg | 16 | 3 13 4.3 0 | 63 933 14.8 7 |
| 1991 sdg | 13 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 44 649 14.8 3 |
| 1992 sdg | 16 | 1 -1 -1.0 0 | 72 1060 14.7 7 |
| 1993 sdg | 16 | 1 0 0.0 0 | 84 1162 13.8 7 |
| 1994 den | 16 | 1 3 3.0 0 | 60 1107 18.4 5 |
| 1995 den | 14 | 1 5 5.0 0 | 59 1079 18.3 14 |
| 1996 den | 16 | 3 39 13.0 1 | 56 735 13.1 3 |
| 1997 dal | 16 | 1 6 6.0 0 | 46 645 14.0 4 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 155 | 22 131 6.0 1 | 595 9148 15.4 63 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
Credit for not sticking around? : Ben in Adirondacks : 2/3/07 4:02 PM
You remember he left because of an injury, don't you? Of course, if it weren't for that it could have been for assaulting teammates (mom always sais you shouldn''t go running with scissors). Or for holing up with prostitutes and a pile of coke....
Didn't : Phil in LA : 2/3/07 4:02 PM
win enough.
I should point out : Ben in Adirondacks : 2/3/07 4:03 PM
the Pro Football Hall of Fame was a joke long before this particular joke....
