Ginn Jr. dropping?

[cobra]

I also think Holmes was a better receiver then than Ginn is now.

Again, I don't think anyone would dispute that. You don't draft Ginn because you are looking for a polished WR to be your #1. You draft Ginn because he is a game changer either by his special teams ability, his ability to have plays designed for him to get the ball in his hands, and his ability to stretch the field as a #2 or #3 WR that allows your other guys to get open underneath.

As Reggie Bush proved last year: when you have a game-changer in the game all you have to do is get the ball in his hands or run him as a decoy, the Defense has to account for him and it disrupts everything.

 

[Concord]

I didn't think Holmes was worthy of the 1st round pick the Steelers used to get him in last years draft. Still don't. I also think Holmes was a better receiver then than Ginn is now. Holmes will probably have a better career as he is the more polished receiver. Both can help a team in the long run, but being worthy of a 1st round pick is a different thing. Well, you have to draft these guys somewhere.

That's obviously what we have to hope for in Carpenter and he went in the first.

And nobody is going to say that Carpenter is a game changer like Ginn is.

If Carpenter goes in the first...Ginn definitely deserves too.

 

[AbeBeta]

And nobody is going to say that Carpenter is a game changer like Ginn is.

Very few defensive players are game-changers. Most guys who get picked day one at the "skill" offensive positions are (or at least were in college).

We all know you pimp hard for The Ohio State but Ginn's slender frame is going to turn some teams way off.

 

[skinsscalper]

I just searched Ginn on you tube and there's one thing that you have to say about this kid. He is playing at a WAY higher speed than his opponents (and even his own teammates). This kid's speed is on a whole different level than his peers.

I remeber last year many people saying that Reggie Bush wouldn't be able to use his speed and cut-back abilities in the NFL due to the fact that "everyone in the NFL is fast". Well, Reggie indeed, did use his speed and maneuverability to make many a play.

If Ginn's route running skills are refined, combined with his natural speed and pnenomenal vision, this kid could be very special. Yes, I know that "everyone in the NFL is fast", but they aren't that fricken fast dude. That kid is an absolute burner!

SS

 

[Doomsday101]

Bush is a bit different in that he is a RB that has pass catching ability and plays special teams as well. Ginn is not a RB and as a WR he has a ways to go before he is of the level of the other top WR in this draft. No one drafts a WR to be a decoy and I would not draft return men with the 1st pick.

 

[cobra]

No one drafts a WR to be a decoy and I would not draft return men with the 1st pick.

The Jets drafted Santana Moss at #16 in 2001.

That is a useful comparison.

 

[tyke1doe]

Bush is a bit different in that he is a RB that has pass catching ability and plays special teams as well. Ginn is not a RB and as a WR he has a ways to go before he is of the level of the other top WR in this draft. No one drafts a WR to be a decoy and I would not draft return men with the 1st pick.

First, RB was used as a decoy too.

Second, what pass catching ability did Bush have to exhibit other than screen passes and short routes in the flat? You don't draft a running back unless he can run. The pass catching ability is a supplemental skill, not necessarily a primary skill.

Third, you mean to tell me knowing what you know now, you wouldn't draft Devin Hester in round one, especially in the lower part of round one?
I would. Devin Hester's returns gave Chicago INSTANT field position. Imagine starting your offense beyond the 40 yard line. Yes, I'd draft a special teams guy in round 1 if he gave me those results, and I suspect Ginn can do that too.

 

[Doomsday101]

The Jets drafted Santana Moss at #16 in 2001.

That is a useful comparison.

I think Ginn will go fairly high in the draft but just like Moss there were better WR in the 2001 draft and have shown themselves as better players. As a return man he has 2 TD in his career and 2 seasons out of 6 that he has gone over 1,000 yards. Ginn himself is not a big guy and durability is an issue with some

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I want to hear opinions, not get into a big argument, I know where you stand

but really, Ginn is one of the lightest WRs in this class, he's not that polished, do teams who pick in the top 15, who generally have a hard time scoring points to win games, take a chance on someone who's biggest impact will probably be just on punt and kick returns?

If the Jags would take Matt Jones at WR who played QB in his college career...I don't see why anyone would think a team would not take Ginn Jr at WR in the top 15.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

w/ measuring 5'11" 178, and not running at the Combine, anyone think his stock drops from top 15, to bottom 1st?

If he drops to us-----PLEASE TAKE HIM !

 

[tyke1doe]

Marvin's 6-0 with a sleight build but they are not the same type of player. Marvin is a football savy player who runs the most precise routes in the league. He is the exception to sleight built players in that he hasn't gotten banged up. But fine you found one sleightly built player who is a HOF. Not very good odds though is it.

Ginn is strictly a raw speed ball player with a sleight build.

Actually, Marvin Harrison is closer to 5'11 than he is 6'0. The media guides are always more generous.

It's interesting that you turned this into a HoF discussion. Why is that?

A guy can still be an impact player and not be a HoF candidate for whatever reason.

I'm just looking for a player with an impact. And as such let me give you two more ...

Santana Moss 5-10, 190 lbs; Laverneus (sic) Coles, 5-11 193 lbs.

Both have been in the league for several years and have benefited from weight training.

At 178lbs, Ginn can bulk up to 190 without losing that much speed if any. And he can learn how to run better routes sitting behind Glenn and TO for a year. It's not like he doesn't have the capability of doing it; he just needs the opportunity. And his ceiling is much higher than Austin's or Hurd's IMO.

 

[Concord]

Very few defensive players are game-changers. Most guys who get picked day one at the "skill" offensive positions are (or at least were in college).

We all know you pimp hard for The Ohio State but Ginn's slender frame is going to turn some teams way off.

Exactly and they still get picked in the first so Ginn will too.

I don't think it's really a question.

I liked that second part.

 

[Derinyar]

Ginn is probably back half of the first round pick. Hes going to go after several other WR, the top two QB's, a CB or two and probably the best 2 or 3 pass rushers in the draft.

Honestly, I think I'd rather see us take an OL in that slot. Mostly because I suspect the talent is going to be higher at that point than Ginn's is compared to the other WR's selected in and around there.

 

[VA Cowboy]

I'm not that high on Ginn, but he'll probably go in the 20-something range. After teams saw what Hester did last year, Ginn will go that high just on his kick return abilities alone.

 

[dalboy]

I don't think that the spot we need to work on but if hes still there then I would not mind if we got him there. Maybe he will be able to catch the ball.

 

[jackrussell]

I didn't think Holmes was worthy of the 1st round pick the Steelers used to get him in last years draft. Still don't. I also think Holmes was a better receiver then than Ginn is now. Holmes will probably have a better career as he is the more polished receiver. Both can help a team in the long run, but being worthy of a 1st round pick is a different thing. Well, you have to draft these guys somewhere.

Well, I did, and still do. And he made a fine contribution as a rookie and replacing El. That's what Dallas needs to learn sometime soon, when to cut loose and get younger and save some top end dollars. For a reply to the rest of your post, cobra couldn't have put it any better.......

Again, I don't think anyone would dispute that. You don't draft Ginn because you are looking for a polished WR to be your #1. You draft Ginn because he is a game changer either by his special teams ability, his ability to have plays designed for him to get the ball in his hands, and his ability to stretch the field as a #2 or #3 WR that allows your other guys to get open underneath.

As Reggie Bush proved last year: when you have a game-changer in the game all you have to do is get the ball in his hands or run him as a decoy, the Defense has to account for him and it disrupts everything.

:clap2: