Given that the NFL is a "copy cat" league...

[Hostile]

Hos puts up a thousand posts in a slow morning...

Congrats. Nice milestone to reach.

I've only been here 20 days?

Damn, seems longer than that.

 

[Hostile]

Would this be the same as calling someone's response arrogant?

If I were to call him arrogant it would go over like a lead balloon.

I used to tell him that if the 3-4 was as unstoppable as he proclaims it to be that every team would use it. Teams that didn't would be absolutely stupid not to. Until he can explain that away he's hardly an expert on the 3-4. Or anything else for that matter.

After all, this is the same guy who proclaimed the 46 defense was derived from the 3-4 and thought my question about Tony Dorsett running a Delay vs. a Draw was a "70's trivia question."

 

[Nors]

If I were to call him arrogant it would go over like a lead balloon.

I used to tell him that if the 3-4 was as unstoppable as he proclaims it to be that every team would use it. Teams that didn't would be absolutely stupid not to. Until he can explain that away he's hardly an expert on the 3-4. Or anything else for that matter.

After all, this is the same guy who proclaimed the 46 defense was derived from the 3-4 and thought my question about Tony Dorsett running a Delay vs. a Draw was a "70's trivia question."

Again you can't comprehend and distort.

You can try and put me down all you want, yet I was right on 3-4 here and you were dead *** wrong.

You still can't get what I said on 46 straight. You got it wrong AGAIN.

Back to thread topic. Bet you don't even remember what it was.


Juke was right - there are more 3-4 teams than there were a few years ago. Thats a fact.

 

[Hostile]

Again you can't comprehend and distort.

You can try and put me down all you want, yet I was right on 3-4 here and you were dead *** wrong.

You still can't get what I said on 46 straight. You got it wrong AGAIN.

Back to thread topic. Bet you don't even remember what it was.


Juke was right - there are more 3-4 teams than there were a few years ago. Thats a fact.

I love it.

Delusions of grandeur in living color.

I've heard your spins on what you said about the 46. Pure lies, just like the Ty Law trade info. Par for the course.

 

[AsthmaField]

The downside is as you state, plus the fact that opposing teams will be more experienced in playing against it.

That's true. I do feel like one of the big plusses of running a 34 is that so many teams just don't practice against it very often.

I know that P. Manning sure looked like a fish out of water against San Diego and Pitt. How much of that was actually because the defense was a 34 defense and how much was because of good gameplans and (as Hos would correctly mention) very good players?

I think the answer would be that Manning's play suffers when he faces a team that disguises it's blitz packages and when he doesn't know where the pressure is going to come from. In other words, when his offensive line stumbles because they can't adjust enough to the myriad blitzes of a well orchestrated 34, Manning seems to fall apart a little bit.

That is easier to accomplish out of a 34 than it is out of a 43, IMO. However, simply sending Ware out of his two point stance at OLB on every passing down wouldn't shake Manning too much unless Ware just consistently beat his guy on nearly every passing down.

We would need to drop Ware on some plays and send the other OLB along with maybe Roy off of the other edge on one play and then send Keith Davis and Ware on the next. Move Ware to the middle of the line and then have him drop in coverage some and go after the QB some. Send Bradie James. Then drop him out some and send Burnett.

That kind of blitzing is what shakes QB's up and what is so effective out of a 34. Better athletes on the field and never knowing where the pressure will come from. That's how it needs to be done... and that, IMO is where the pressure advantage from the 34 is. And I say better athletes because you have 3 DL and 4 LB's as opposed to 4 DL and 3 LB's.

Roy is the perfect blitzing safety. We need to use him more in that capacity, IMO.

As the players and Zimmer become more accustomed to playing out of a 34, you'd have to think that we'd play more and more the way I just described. As we add what should be the final couple of pieces to the 34 puzzle... we should be in a great position to play teams just like Pitt and San Diego played Indy.

Next year, it should be very, very fun to watch our defense play. This offseason will be fun, watching the final pieces fall into place. The Commanders better hope Saunders is all he's cracked up to be as an offensve coordinator... because if he isn't, they're going to be SOL trying to do anything against the Dallas D.

 

[Juke99]

That's true. I do feel like one of the big plusses of running a 34 is that so many teams just don't practice against it very often.

I know that P. Manning sure looked like a fish out of water against San Diego and Pitt. How much of that was actually because the defense was a 34 defense and how much was because of good gameplans and (as Hos would correctly mention) very good players?

I think the answer would be that Manning's play suffers when he faces a team that disguises it's blitz packages and when he doesn't know where the pressure is going to come from. In other words, when his offensive line stumbles because they can't adjust enough to the myriad blitzes of a well orchestrated 34, Manning seems to fall apart a little bit.

That is easier to accomplish out of a 34 than it is out of a 43, IMO. However, simply sending Ware out of his two point stance at OLB on every passing down wouldn't shake Manning too much unless Ware just consistently beat his guy on nearly every passing down.

We would need to drop Ware on some plays and send the other OLB along with maybe Roy off of the other edge on one play and then send Keith Davis and Ware on the next. Move Ware to the middle of the line and then have him drop in coverage some and go after the QB some. Send Bradie James. Then drop him out some and send Burnett.

That kind of blitzing is what shakes QB's up and what is so effective out of a 34. Better athletes on the field and never knowing where the pressure will come from. That's how it needs to be done... and that, IMO is where the pressure advantage from the 34 is. And I say better athletes because you have 3 DL and 4 LB's as opposed to 4 DL and 3 LB's.

Roy is the perfect blitzing safety. We need to use him more in that capacity, IMO.

As the players and Zimmer become more accustomed to playing out of a 34, you'd have to think that we'd play more and more the way I just described. As we add what should be the final couple of pieces to the 34 puzzle... we should be in a great position to play teams just like Pitt and San Diego played Indy.

Next year, it should be very, very fun to watch our defense play. This offseason will be fun, watching the final pieces fall into place. The Commanders better hope Saunders is all he's cracked up to be as an offensve coordinator... because if he isn't, they're going to be SOL trying to do anything against the Dallas D.

Great response. Thanks.

Ya know, you are spot on correct about Roy. He's a physical freak and could be utilized WAY beyond what he is now.

Perhaps we oversimplify but I'd think that if we can see things this clearly, so could the defensive staff.

I fully expected that the 2005 season would start out vanilla and then progress...in fact, it stayed pretty much the same all season.

And ya know, it doesnt have to be big stuff. When the Cowboys were very concerned about the Giant DE's and how they were going to go max protect on the outsides, what the Giants do on one play? They lined the two DE's right next to eachother and ended up with a sack of Bledsoe. Simple stuff. Utilized only once.

The way I've always felt, is that even if something DOESN'T work, show it anyway...just to give the other guys something to think about. Yes, simplifying Ware's game is a good idea...but it also makes it easier for the defense to plan against him.

Next year is going to be an interesting one to watch. Looking forward to seeing the defense on the field. The offense? That's another story.

 

[chinch]

If the Steelers win the Super Bowl...

1- Do you think alot of teams will switch to a 3-4 defense?

2- If they do, how will that impact us?

I have my own thoughts on this...but I'd like to see what others think.

Thanks.

1. NFL is a win now league more than a "copycat" league. Successful teams aren't changing their D and new teams have new coaches/systems which are more relevant than what the steelers do. If new coaches (of rebuilding teams) choose to impliment the 3-4 it's because it's a better base system for today's NFL not to "copycat".

2. little impact from Steelers but more teams will move to 3-4 for logical reasons (discussed to death). It won't matter much as there is limited talent anyways, regardless of system teams run.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Yes, I do think a lot of teams will incorporate the 3-4. It's become trendy and people like change. Coaches are human too and they love to experiment. I think you will see a lot of teams adopt the 3-4.

Trust me, someone is going to bring back the Run N Shoot. Of course, they won't call it the Run N Shoot for fear of being mocked. They will mix an acceptable form of an offense with the Run N Shoot and call it something else.

 

[kojak]

If the Steelers win the Super Bowl...

1- Do you think alot of teams will switch to a 3-4 defense?

2- If they do, how will that impact us?

I have my own thoughts on this...but I'd like to see what others think.

Thanks.

I beleive they will. In 2005 alone the Cowboys( pretty much assumed)The Browns, The 49er's, switched to the 3-4 and even Miami used the 3-4 defense at times. Which could possibly assume that Saban will make the move.

2. I think Bill having such a background with the 3-4 should be able to gameplan for it. Though at this point in time with what we have, he may want to alter the offense somewhat.

 

[Clove]

We would need to drop Ware on some plays and send the other OLB along with maybe Roy off of the other edge on one play and then send Keith Davis and Ware on the next. Move Ware to the middle of the line and then have him drop in coverage some and go after the QB some. Send Bradie James. Then drop him out some and send Burnett.

That kind of blitzing is what shakes QB's up and what is so effective out of a 34. Better athletes on the field and never knowing where the pressure will come from. That's how it needs to be done... and that, IMO is where the pressure advantage from the 34 is. And I say better athletes because you have 3 DL and 4 LB's as opposed to 4 DL and 3 LB's.

Roy is the perfect blitzing safety. We need to use him more in that capacity, IMO.

As the players and Zimmer become more accustomed to playing out of a 34, you'd have to think that we'd play more and more the way I just described. As we add what should be the final couple of pieces to the 34 puzzle... we should be in a great position to play teams just like Pitt and San Diego played Indy.

Next year, it should be very, very fun to watch our defense play. This offseason will be fun, watching the final pieces fall into place. The Commanders better hope Saunders is all he's cracked up to be as an offensve coordinator... because if he isn't, they're going to be SOL trying to do anything against the Dallas D.

I couldn't have said it any better.

And that will fall on Zimmer. But I think that teams will slowly start to gravitate (not all teams). Their are big advantages, but you need to have the personell in place.

 

[junk]

Great response. Thanks.

Ya know, you are spot on correct about Roy. He's a physical freak and could be utilized WAY beyond what he is now.

Perhaps we oversimplify but I'd think that if we can see things this clearly, so could the defensive staff.

I fully expected that the 2005 season would start out vanilla and then progress...in fact, it stayed pretty much the same all season.

And ya know, it doesnt have to be big stuff. When the Cowboys were very concerned about the Giant DE's and how they were going to go max protect on the outsides, what the Giants do on one play? They lined the two DE's right next to eachother and ended up with a sack of Bledsoe. Simple stuff. Utilized only once.

The way I've always felt, is that even if something DOESN'T work, show it anyway...just to give the other guys something to think about. Yes, simplifying Ware's game is a good idea...but it also makes it easier for the defense to plan against him.

Next year is going to be an interesting one to watch. Looking forward to seeing the defense on the field. The offense? That's another story.

You don't need those fancy schemes if you execute it to perfection!

 

[Juke99]

You don't need those fancy schemes if you execute it to perfection!

Well, then I guess ya need a few fancy schemes...I'd hate to rely on perfection.

 

[kojak]

This is basically what we ran. You could almost say it was a 4-3 because in ware's case he lined up and rushed the qb most of the time. But still considered the 3-4 and was very basic.

There is alot of potential with the right moves and personel. I hope next year we start implementing more blitzing schemes. I can't wait till next year to see what the defense will be capable of doing. I thought they done fairly well for just running a basic 3-4 and all the injuries we had.

 

[Clove]

This is basically what we ran. You could almost say it was a 4-3 because in ware's case he lined up and rushed the qb most of the time. But still considered the 3-4 and was very basic.

There is alot of potential with the right moves and personel. I hope next year we start implementing more blitzing schemes. I can't wait till next year to see what the defense will be capable of doing. I thought they done fairly well for just running a basic 3-4 and all the injuries we had.

Good job. You could move guys all over that line. You could line both OLB'r over to the same side, you could drop a DE (like Canty), but the best blitz packages are when you flood one side with a SS on the other side, and drop the flooded side into a zone and blitz the SS. Zimmer's got his work cut out for him.

 

[Jimmie]

since were talking about this being a copycat league, when are teams gonna start copying the bronco's offense/blocking schemes?

every year they turn out thousand yard backs, why havent teams started copying what they do in the running game? (blocking schemes etc)

 

[Kilyin]

Then again you don't know the difference between a Delay and a Draw so why would I assume you know anything about Defense?

This is funny no matter how many times I read it.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

since were talking about this being a copycat league, when are teams gonna start copying the bronco's offense/blocking schemes?

every year they turn out thousand yard backs, why havent teams started copying what they do in the running game? (blocking schemes etc)

Dude, you must have been reading my mind. I was going to start a thread about this but just forgot. I think I will start it now.

- Mike G.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The only impact it would have on us is that the availability of the "tweeners" that fall in the draft will be lessened if other teams start switching to the 3-4.

Currently, a DE that is really fast and a good pass rusher, but soft against the run, will fall in the draft because he just isn't big enough to play 4-3 DE or too big and slow to play 4-3 OLB. However, those types are usually just right for OLB in a 3-4.

More 3-4 teams would mean those guys getting snatched up quicker in the draft.

Is that you thought on it Juke? What are your thoughts?

good arse summation

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Not really. Teams will continue to use what works based on their personnel. New England winning 3 Super Bowls impacted a few teams to play shadows. I don't count Dallas among those that changed because Parcells ran it before.

The top 2 or 3 defenses in the NFL still run a 4-3. I've been saying it for 3 years now, the scheme does not magically make a defense better, you have to have the personnel to make it work.

For all the blathering about the 3-4 and how it was going to be this great catalyst to glory the fact remains better players helped us improve on defense. It has always worked that way, it will always work that, and only those with little understanding of the game can't grasp that.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Then again you don't know the difference between a Delay and a Draw so why would I assume you know anything about Defense?

then that shows how much he knows D, that he can't know about anything else because so much knowledge about Defense has taken up all the space