Given that the NFL is a "copy cat" league...

Hostile

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kojak_DD said:
3-4-defense.png


This is basically what we ran. You could almost say it was a 4-3 because in ware's case he lined up and rushed the qb most of the time. But still considered the 3-4 and was very basic.

There is alot of potential with the right moves and personel. I hope next year we start implementing more blitzing schemes. I can't wait till next year to see what the defense will be capable of doing. I thought they done fairly well for just running a basic 3-4 and all the injuries we had.
In fairness most 3-4 schemes have the WOLB rush the passer every play.

LT in Nw York
Kevin Greene in Pittsburgh
Rickey Jackson in Nawlins
Willie McGinnest in New England


Just a few examples. So it can't really be called a 4-3 look. It is a 3-4 look.
 

AsthmaField

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Hostile said:
In fairness most 3-4 schemes have the WOLB rush the passer every play.

LT in Nw York
Kevin Greene in Pittsburgh
Rickey Jackson in Nawlins
Willie McGinnest in New England


Just a few examples. So it can't really be called a 4-3 look. It is a 3-4 look.

That's true Hos.

In NY the SOLB was Banks. Great player and always good for pressure when you needed him to apply it. He could take advantage of all the attention that was paid to LT because Banks was a very good player, flush with athleticism.

In pitt, who was on the other side... Lloyd, wasn't it? Good blitzer and an even better athlete. Scary mean too.

I do know that when Greene went to carolina in their 3-4, they put Lamar Lathon opposite Greene and they scared the heck out of QB's.

In N.O. the SOLB was Swilling... again, dial up a blitz with him any day and he'd get there. Didn't he lead the league in sacks one year? Jackson or Swilling... pick your poison for opposing offensive coordinators.

You get my point here... while the WOLB is the primary LB to apply pressure, like you say, they definatley had other players who could get there from the other OLB position. Good to great players, each and every one.

Ware? Okay, I'm with you on that. The guy has a LOT of potential and I think it finally started clicking near the end of his rookie season. I can't wait to see him next year. And opposite him we have... Fujita? Um... uh... smart guy that Fujita. Great player? Not even close.

What I'm driving at is that we really need an impact player opposite Ware. A good to great player on the other side is going to take the chipping RB's and TE's off of Ware (at least part of the time) and put them on the other side sometimes.

I think SOLB will be Bill's primary focus in round 1 of the draft. Personally, I think that's where we get the "other" bookend from, rather than free agency... and I think we do it this year, which is a very good year for 3-4 OLB prospects (and ILB too). Carpenter? Hawk? Dumervil? Lawson? I don't know who... but I think there's a good chance we get one of those guys, or someone like them at 18... or trade down to around 25 and nab them.

That's one of the great things about running a 3-4 now. These types of players are drafted a good bit lower than their athleticism dictates. Really good players that don't have a true position in a 4-3 defense. Specialty players aren't usually drafted real high... but for a 34 defense, those types aren't part players... they're full time players at a critical position in the 34, and well worth a first round pick. Players that might go top ten in the draft if more teams played the 34, actually fall down into the 20's.

It's great for us and enables 3-4 teams to get impact players... true difference makers... much lower in the draft. Say at pick 18, for instance.

In football, it can be amazing how much 1 peice of the puzzle can add to a team. Steve Smith to Carolina's offense. Add Charles Haley to a solid D in the early 90's and you have a championship caliber defense. Haley might've made the whole damn team better, as a matter of fact. Warren Sapp made the Tampa mid 90's defense go from good to great. The emergence of Osi Umenyura (sp?) made the Giant's D just take off this year. Freeny in Indy, etc.

One guy can make a huge difference because of the problems it caused offenses in protection schemes. Taking two great pass rushers out of the game is much more difficult than having to only neutralize one. A lot more that simply twice as hard in a classic case of "greater than the sum of it's parts".

Right now, offenses pretty much have to styme Ware with chips and double teams and they've defeated our pressure. Just send your back over to help and you can pretty much count on enough time to let your play develop and get the ball off. But if you have another player like Ware to worry about on the other side... then what? If you send your back to Ware's side to help, then if the other OLB is coming, you better pray to God that your RT can handle him one-on-one. If he can't... look out. Send your back over to him and here comes Ware. Help both tackles and it helps out our already excellent secondary and your offense is going to be severely limited. One more impact guy at SOLB will creat a myriad of problems for an offense.

Add to that, improvement from an already good Bradie James and what I expect to be a very good Burnett in his second year, and with some imagination we could have a LB corps that could terrorize QB's.

Ahmad Brooks might slide in the draft and I love Kai Parham too. Trade back from 18 down to say 25 and get Dumervil and pick up another second. Then trade our second and that one to move up early in the second round and nab Brooks if he slides that far.

Imagine having: Ware - Brooks - James - Dumervil, as our LB's. Athleticism to spare with Burnett and Thornton as backups at the most crucial position in a 3-4.

Throw in a little Roy blitz here and there and a lot of teams would look like Indy did against Pittsburgh.

The key though, IMO, is getting that other OLB. Getting the one guy who is going to take the other offense from assignment to indecision will allow a geometric improvement in our defense.

LT had his Banks... Jackson had his Swilling... Greene had his Lathon... We need to give Ware his guy and just sit back and enjoy the show.

That's my $0.02 worth.
 

Givincer

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Juke99 said:
If the Steelers win the Super Bowl...

1- Do you think alot of teams will switch to a 3-4 defense?

2- If they do, how will that impact us?

I have my own thoughts on this...but I'd like to see what others think.

Thanks.

The coaches that switched their teams from 4-3 to 3-4 last year were all 3-4 coaches prior to coming to that team. The coaches that switched were Saban, Crennel, Nolan, Parcells. They are not copycats they are implementing what they are familiar with they are just the opposite of "copycats."

Now I don't know if any teams will try to implement the 3-4 but if they take Bill's point of view that prototype OLB's are easier to find than protype DE's are then we might see some changes. I don't think there will ever be a majority 3-4 just because of copycats...I agree with Hostile what defense you play has to do with the sort of personnel you have to deal with and what will be available to you via the draft or free agency.
 

Hostile

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AsthmaField said:
That's true Hos.

In NY the SOLB was Banks. Great player and always good for pressure when you needed him to apply it. He could take advantage of all the attention that was paid to LT because Banks was a very good player, flush with athleticism.

In pitt, who was on the other side... Lloyd, wasn't it? Good blitzer and an even better athlete. Scary mean too.

I do know that when Greene went to carolina in their 3-4, they put Lamar Lathon opposite Greene and they scared the heck out of QB's.

In N.O. the SOLB was Swilling... again, dial up a blitz with him any day and he'd get there. Didn't he lead the league in sacks one year? Jackson or Swilling... pick your poison for opposing offensive coordinators.

You get my point here... while the WOLB is the primary LB to apply pressure, like you say, they definatley had other players who could get there from the other OLB position. Good to great players, each and every one.

Ware? Okay, I'm with you on that. The guy has a LOT of potential and I think it finally started clicking near the end of his rookie season. I can't wait to see him next year. And opposite him we have... Fujita? Um... uh... smart guy that Fujita. Great player? Not even close.

What I'm driving at is that we really need an impact player opposite Ware. A good to great player on the other side is going to take the chipping RB's and TE's off of Ware (at least part of the time) and put them on the other side sometimes.

I think SOLB will be Bill's primary focus in round 1 of the draft. Personally, I think that's where we get the "other" bookend from, rather than free agency... and I think we do it this year, which is a very good year for 3-4 OLB prospects (and ILB too). Carpenter? Hawk? Dumervil? Lawson? I don't know who... but I think there's a good chance we get one of those guys, or someone like them at 18... or trade down to around 25 and nab them.

That's one of the great things about running a 3-4 now. These types of players are drafted a good bit lower than their athleticism dictates. Really good players that don't have a true position in a 4-3 defense. Specialty players aren't usually drafted real high... but for a 34 defense, those types aren't part players... they're full time players at a critical position in the 34, and well worth a first round pick. Players that might go top ten in the draft if more teams played the 34, actually fall down into the 20's.

It's great for us and enables 3-4 teams to get impact players... true difference makers... much lower in the draft. Say at pick 18, for instance.

In football, it can be amazing how much 1 peice of the puzzle can add to a team. Steve Smith to Carolina's offense. Add Charles Haley to a solid D in the early 90's and you have a championship caliber defense. Haley might've made the whole damn team better, as a matter of fact. Warren Sapp made the Tampa mid 90's defense go from good to great. The emergence of Osi Umenyura (sp?) made the Giant's D just take off this year. Freeny in Indy, etc.

One guy can make a huge difference because of the problems it caused offenses in protection schemes. Taking two great pass rushers out of the game is much more difficult than having to only neutralize one. A lot more that simply twice as hard in a classic case of "greater than the sum of it's parts".

Right now, offenses pretty much have to styme Ware with chips and double teams and they've defeated our pressure. Just send your back over to help and you can pretty much count on enough time to let your play develop and get the ball off. But if you have another player like Ware to worry about on the other side... then what? If you send your back to Ware's side to help, then if the other OLB is coming, you better pray to God that your RT can handle him one-on-one. If he can't... look out. Send your back over to him and here comes Ware. Help both tackles and it helps out our already excellent secondary and your offense is going to be severely limited. One more impact guy at SOLB will creat a myriad of problems for an offense.

Add to that, improvement from an already good Bradie James and what I expect to be a very good Burnett in his second year, and with some imagination we could have a LB corps that could terrorize QB's.

Ahmad Brooks might slide in the draft and I love Kai Parham too. Trade back from 18 down to say 25 and get Dumervil and pick up another second. Then trade our second and that one to move up early in the second round and nab Brooks if he slides that far.

Imagine having: Ware - Brooks - James - Dumervil, as our LB's. Athleticism to spare with Burnett and Thornton as backups at the most crucial position in a 3-4.

Throw in a little Roy blitz here and there and a lot of teams would look like Indy did against Pittsburgh.

The key though, IMO, is getting that other OLB. Getting the one guy who is going to take the other offense from assignment to indecision will allow a geometric improvement in our defense.

LT had his Banks... Jackson had his Swilling... Greene had his Lathon... We need to give Ware his guy and just sit back and enjoy the show.

That's my $0.02 worth.
From the standpoint of football analysis, that is the best post I have read so far this off season.

Bobby Carpenter anyone?
 

Nors

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Hostile said:
From the standpoint of football analysis, that is the best post I have read so far this off season.

Bobby Carpenter anyone?


Carpenter is getting vastly overrated here. Wreaks of last years Mike Williams or worst Antajj Hawthorne.

Carpenter is a nice Fujita like player. Average Pro - with some play in him. There are a half dozen better OLB prospects as far as edge rush skills.

Like Simms kid - watch Parcells steer clear of this one.

Go see Senior Bowl news - roster out there - strong LB showing and Kiwi too. Maybe Kiwi will be asked to work out with LB's like Ware was. ESPN will have all next week. Good stuff.

We need more a Joey Porter, Ray Lewis Linebacker to enforce the field all over. Backfield, sideline to sideline, over middle, pusuit and blitzing.;)
 

AsthmaField

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Nors said:
Carpenter is getting vastly overrated here. Wreaks of last years Mike Williams or worst Antajj Hawthorne.

Carpenter is a nice Fujita like player. Average Pro - with some play in him. There are a half dozen better OLB prospects as far as edge rush skills.

Like Simms kid - watch Parcells steer clear of this one.

Go see Senior Bowl news - roster out there - strong LB showing and Kiwi too. Maybe Kiwi will be asked to work out with LB's like Ware was. ESPN will have all next week. Good stuff.

We need more a Joey Porter, Ray Lewis Linebacker to enforce the field all over. Backfield, sideline to sideline, over middle, pusuit and blitzing.;)

You don't like Carpenter? Fine. I don't know enough about him to make a compelling argument.

Who do you like then Nors? Joey Porter, Ray Lewis? Thats easy. I mean in this years draft.

Who do you think could be our Banks? Our Swilling? Do you see him at 18? In the second round?
 
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