GM's Comments on Roy Williams

khiladi

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Hyperbole is a common feature of language, let alone it being used as an effective tool in the highest expressions of language, including poetry. Hyperbole is a very effective form of rhetoric... Take the use of hyperbole when people are talking about Roy Williams in coverage... This thread is an obvious example of hyperbole in action... What could generate more controversy than a headline saying:

"Roy Williams can't cover my Grandmother..."

Can we add that to the list of myths?

That reminds me... Let me add the following to my list of idiocy:

Anybody that claims only idiots use hyperbole is an idiot...
 

khiladi

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Roy Williams can't cover...

He covers himself with sheets while going to bed...

Score one for the Roy Williams defenders....

Add the above to the list of myths....
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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superpunk;2111675 said:
It's not semantics. And it's not posturing.

Actually it is semantics. In this case the meaning of the word can't.

And when its a GM trying to give a quick summation its faster than saying 'has difficulty transitioning from his backpedal due nonfluid hips, lacks the speed to recover from mistakes and has difficulty covering sharp cuts due to a lack of lateral quickness. Awareness is another major concern, will get out of place from time to time."

One man's laziness is another's efficiency.

Anyway this is another stupid argument in the Roy debate as Adam argues minor minutiae that once again misses the forest for the sake of the trees.
 

dallasfaniac

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For some reason, it is fully acceptable to continually bash Roy Williams using innaccurate data and obvious lies, yet it is not acceptable to point out the lies and correct the data without being called all sorts of names.

I've seen threads started about Roy containing these obvious lies and innaccuracies and rather than point it out, someone will make an obnoxious comment like 'Queue Adam and his flunkies in 5, 4, .....'. These people don't care about the facts, they care about bashing Roy and his 'apologists' regardless of the truth.

They will create a Roy Williams excuse thread throwing out the most outlandish lines under the guise of humor which are actually meant to provoke, yet when Adam posts a myth thread they've got a problem.

You have the media and fans throwing out blanket statements like Roy can't cover, Roy is taken off the field on passing downs etc. when those aren't the truth. If you have a problem with Adam continually pointing out that these are obviously innaccurate but not a problem with these statements being made, then you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are ok with lies being spread unchallenged. Are you a hatefull, deceitfull person who gets their jollies off of purposely provoking other fans or do you just want the truth even if it doesn't match completely with your beliefs. You can always ignore his corrections and live in your imaginary world.
 

superpunk

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dallasfaniac;2111735 said:
For some reason, it is fully acceptable to continually bash Roy Williams using innaccurate data and obvious lies, yet it is not acceptable to point out the lies and correct the data without being called all sorts of names.

I've seen threads started about Roy containing these obvious lies and innaccuracies and rather than point it out, someone will make an obnoxious comment like 'Queue Adam and his flunkies in 5, 4, .....'. These people don't care about the facts, they care about bashing Roy and his 'apologists' regardless of the truth.

They will create a Roy Williams excuse thread throwing out the most outlandish lines under the guise of humor which are actually meant to provoke, yet when Adam posts a myth thread they've got a problem.

You have the media and fans throwing out blanket statements like Roy can't cover, Roy is taken off the field on passing downs etc. when those aren't the truth. If you have a problem with Adam continually pointing out that these are obviously innaccurate but not a problem with these statements being made, then you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are ok with lies being spread unchallenged. Are you a hatefull, deceitfull person who gets their jollies off of purposely provoking other fans or do you just want the truth even if it doesn't match completely with your beliefs. You can always ignore his corrections and live in your imaginary world.

Tag. Now you're it.

Fantastic post by the way.
 

starfrombirth

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Idgit;2111063 said:
There's no straw man to tear down. It's just an inaccurate statement that you keep repeating. If you'd stop repeating it, we'd stop pointing out that it's a stupid way to make a point.

I'd rather read and respond to your point than have to interpret how far out on the limb you actually are before replying to you. But you shouldn't expect me to make a guess as to what you actually meant and respond to an assumption when you're perfectly capable of forming accurate thoughts.

And it's not a semantical argument. We're not debating the meaning of words. Everybody on both sides can agree that the issue is that you're just not using the words that represent your actual opinions. The problem is rhetorical, not semantical.

See? Perfect example. I'm sure, not everybody can agree. However, I'm sure that many might agree with your statement about interpretation. Not so easy is it? :D Now go back and say what you really mean so that we can respond to your actual meaning. :cool:
 

Idgit

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starfrombirth;2111787 said:
See? Perfect example. I'm sure, not everybody can agree. However, I'm sure that many might agree with your statement about interpretation. Not so easy is it? :D Now go back and say what you really mean so that we can respond to your actual meaning. :cool:

I addressed just this point at length earlier in the thread.
 

tomson75

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dallasfaniac;2111735 said:
For some reason, it is fully acceptable to continually bash Roy Williams using innaccurate data and obvious lies, yet it is not acceptable to point out the lies and correct the data without being called all sorts of names.

I've seen threads started about Roy containing these obvious lies and innaccuracies and rather than point it out, someone will make an obnoxious comment like 'Queue Adam and his flunkies in 5, 4, .....'. These people don't care about the facts, they care about bashing Roy and his 'apologists' regardless of the truth.

They will create a Roy Williams excuse thread throwing out the most outlandish lines under the guise of humor which are actually meant to provoke, yet when Adam posts a myth thread they've got a problem.

You have the media and fans throwing out blanket statements like Roy can't cover, Roy is taken off the field on passing downs etc. when those aren't the truth. If you have a problem with Adam continually pointing out that these are obviously innaccurate but not a problem with these statements being made, then you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are ok with lies being spread unchallenged. Are you a hatefull, deceitfull person who gets their jollies off of purposely provoking other fans or do you just want the truth even if it doesn't match completely with your beliefs. You can always ignore his corrections and live in your imaginary world.

Damn fine post.

I think you've summed up the "Roy enabler's" thoughts very well. I'm done with these threads. The people that continue to ignore facts, and the obvious ability of "Adam's flunkies" to see the gray area, will continue to do so regardless of what is said in these threads. There is no point.
 

AdamJT13

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abersonc;2111699 said:
Says the guy who started the myth thread that clung so tightly to the literal meaning of the words

Again, you missed the entire gist of that thread.
 

AbeBeta

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AdamJT13;2111988 said:
Again, you missed the entire gist of that thread.

and you missed that I got the gist entirely. but that I felt the "gist" was idiotic.
 

DallasEast

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zeromaster;2111707 said:
The Quincy threads are dead. Long live the "Roy is ..." threads.
Truer words have never been spoken.
 

jterrell

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cowboyed;2110478 said:
First of all Roy is 27 just entering into his prime. He was also a first round top ten draft pick. Most certainly he was more effective, even in coverage in the beginning of his Cowboys career several years ago.

Roy Williams is still a good safety, but not the great safety he once was. I think what irks most fans is that he is still young and at times exhibits a questionable attitude and a reputation for not preparing for opponents as diligently as some other key players.

A few years ago he received a hefty and extended contract and even back then I recall him reinforcing that he was getting back to old form. Those GM's if for real are more football knowledgeable than any fan no matter how critically impassioned or statistically oriented they are. That stated how much time have these GM's really spent in depth evaluating and researching Roy as none have gone on record stating Roy was offered to them in a trade.

I personally believe Roy can become the feared defensive weapon he once was if he rights himself and embraces the coaching and scheme. Also with an improved defensive supporting cast around him and one especially devoid of Jacques Reeves, he may have his coming out party again.

RW will be 28 in two months. That is 30ish. I wouldn't have used an -ish had I taken the time to go to nfl.com but for clarity's sake I have now.

The question remains: How many Dallas Cowboys players are worth a 2nd rounder or higher and how many of those players are talked about as needing to be gotten rid of by fans?

Part of the problem is here Roy has been asked to play uni-safety(i.e. interchangeable safeties as we have heard this system uses-- so did BP's) not Strong Safety. That's scheme preference and also a misuse of RW. I'd guess most GMs willing to pay a 2nd or 3rd for RW do not play that uni-safety scheme.

I think RW needs to play more weakside backer in this scheme because we do not have a true strong safety position for him to play. Putting him at LB changes matchups quite a lot and forces teams to play him more honestly not just trying to split him out on an elite pass catching TE if they have one(Wash/NYG) or on a great receiving running back(Philly).

RW destroyed these teams and their players earlier so of course as any decent coaching staff will do they started game-planning him. The plan as simply go right him in the passing game so he was playing back on his heels and not attacking. That playing on his heels thing started off with him chasing a lot of guys and using horse-collars. But the NFL stepped in there to stop that... even though the game is 100 years old and has never been illegal previously.

So now RW is stuck chasing guys and being forced to "think" about his tackle technique. That means all the instinctive plays he made goign forward are pretty much dead in the water.

Why dopes he still make Pro Bowls? Largely base don PLAYER votes. Other players still respect his game because he can knock a guy out with one blow and that carries major weight with NFL guys. Do SOME coaches and GMs take shots at him? Sure but they do not have to face his 240 pound tackles.

Does Burress talk noise? Yup but he talks noise about almost everyone. He is also one of the biggest WRs in football.

So it is imho easy to see why RW is playing less strongly. He is in a scheme less well suited to him, is being game-planned, has lost some confidence and is being targeted at the NFL level for tackling violations.

Excuses? No. They are simply the realistic issues facing RW and the sad truth is they are not going away. So the coaching staff needs to get him out of some of that hot water by making it much harder to game-plan him.

I think the balanced take on RW is:

A) He has been a huge difference maker.
B) He is currently not a huge difference maker.
C) We should as a team try to allow him to return to being a huge difference maker by not conceding match-ups to other coaching staffs.
D) Roy needs to stop being so thin-skinned and get his swagger back.
 

Rampage

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jterrell;2112045 said:
a
I think the balanced take on RW is:

A) He has been a huge difference maker.
B) He is currently not a huge difference maker.
C) We should as a team try to allow him to return to being a huge difference maker by not conceding match-ups to other coaching staffs.
D) Roy needs to stop being so thin-skinned and get his swagger back.

I feel the same way.
 

28 Joker

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theogt;2111165 said:
They didn't get split. Roy was where he was supposed to be and Hamlin wasn't.

The TJ Duckett play was certainly on Roy.


theogt,

Thank you for your response. We agree on the Duckett play, and I bet we agree that Dallas is loaded and ready to win 12-14 games this year if alll things stay constant.
 
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