Going for the kill shot while you are in the window

[LandryFan]

They probably won't get a big discount but 9-10m seems fair

With the 5th year option around 9m they will probably extend him before 2018 now that I think of it to extend the proration on the signing bonus an extra year....that even saves cap space and the big hit won't come until 2020 after a restructure in 2019

No need to put off a FA because of Martin......Crawford, Lee and Dez will be up by then

Good stuff...thanks.

 

[waldoputty]

a lot of them are duplicates.......use the draft for depth instead of Carr, Wilcox, TWill, Hanna, Leary

I need to see a list of potential DEs before I commit 60m

BK

you are really cruel.

you tell me there is 30M easily for spending
then you put me on a measily $17M budget

very angry
scrouge

 

[Nightman]

BK

you are really cruel.

you tell me there is 30M easily for spending
then you put me on a measily $17M budget

very angry
scrouge

those are just the re-signs...........knock yourself out with other team's FAs

 

[waldoputty]

those are just the re-signs...........knock yourself out with other team's FAs

No you put the FA DE ($6M) in the $17M budget.
but I did forget about DT Mcclain

NO FAIR

 

[waldoputty]

those are just the re-signs...........knock yourself out with other team's FAs

We could replace Free with Ryan Schraeder...

 

[conner01]

LOL, well how many do you think we can afford with $40M of cap space?
What is your anticipated 2017 cap hit assuming smart cap structures:
Mo - $5M
Carr - $3M
Church - $4M
Leary - $5M
Wilcox - $2M
TWill - $4M
Butler - $2M
FA DE - $6M
My total bill estimate is 29M - am I that off? 17m

Martin would come in 2017 season or after 2017 season?- after 2018

They aren't gonna sign Leary or twill, maybe one of church and Carr. Wilcox maybe
As you show, money is not an issue. Finding a free agent worth the money could be. There are a handful of de prospects and most will get resigned or tagged. And the smaller the number that hits the market the more they cost
I'm all for signing some guys but pass rushers are few and far between as well as over paid in many cases

 

[waldoputty]

They aren't gonna sign Leary or twill, maybe one of church and Carr. Wilcox maybe
As you show, money is not an issue. Finding a free agent worth the money could be. There are a handful of de prospects and most will get resigned or tagged. And the smaller the number that hits the market the more they cost
I'm all for signing some guys but pass rushers are few and far between as well as over paid in many cases

I still like keeping Leary and Romo - but I am greedy.

There are definite candidates if they are not franchised:
Chandler Jones
Jamie Collins
Melvin Ingram
JPP
Nick Perry

 

[xwalker]

Tony has no say. He's under contract.

Dallas may let him pick his destination if they do indeed decide to trade him but that is as far as it will go.

He could retire instead of being a backup.

 

[CATCH17]

He could retire instead of being a backup.

That's best case scenario for us financially.

 

[Nightman]

That's best case scenario for us financially.

No......cut, trade or retire are all the same

Post June 1st is the key to getting cap number down this year

 

[conner01]

I still like keeping Leary and Romo - but I am greedy.

There are definite candidates if they are not franchised:
Chandler Jones
Jamie Collins
Melvin Ingram
JPP
Nick Perry

It would be nice to keep Leary but you can only pay so many at one spot
Tony is not gonna want to end his career watching and I don't blame him
Most of the de will get signed or tagged
The giants did spend a ton on the dline so they could let JPP walk, we shall ser

 

[darthseinfeld]

Looks like you have done your homework

• You will get a lot if push back against restructuring but it is a solid philosophy ESPECIALLY with a rising cap.........it has gone up 46m in 5 years
• DAL hasn't changed anything......the cap just has grown as expected with the TV deals signed thru 2021
• DAL doesn't like signing big time FAs....never have.....it is one of the big misnomers about Jerry
• Carr, Deion, RW11, Leonard Davis and a handful of OL are some of the biggies in the last 20 years
  
• DAL prefers building thru the draft, getting comp draft picks and re-signing our young guys to second and third deals.........problem is lately guys haven't lived up to the deal
• MAustin, MBIII, Hamlin, Ratliff, Spencer, RW31, RW11, Free all underperformed in an era when the cap was stagnant
  
• Romo, DWare, Witten, Lee, TSmith have been big wins

I think they should Draft a DE next year early and not sign a big one....they have to sign Mo and Church for the secondary and hopefully JSmith is back to solve the MIKE....I might spend to get a real weapon on the outside but nothing crazy....keep drafting well and this team is built for the long and short term

Id personally like to draft a DE as well as bring in a top level specialist. I could see a Ware reunion in 2017. His next contract could be south of what Mario Williams got this year and as a short term option that may be attractive to us while we groom a late first for second round rusher. We have the players to keep Ware off the field on run downs

 

[skinsscalper]

My primary point was to throw caution to the wind and dispose of our innate belief in saving.

This current window has an unique twist to it - as the cap is expanding at $10mil/year for 5 years or so.
There is all the money in the word so lets use the seeming infinite $ to insure the next dynasty.

The problem with that philosophy is that you've now, actually, created a window that previously didn't exist. Look at the Patriots. RARELY do they bring in a high priced FA because it throws off the balance of their overall philosophy. They count on solid coaching and solid drafting to replace these guys that are going to "break the bank". The key to continuing on this upward arc, IMO, is to do exactly what we've been doing. Draft solid and coach them up.

Jason Garrett has taken a lot of heat over his tenure here in Dallas. A lot of it justified. However, his influence on this team and the roster, in general, cannot be denied. He has absolutely changed the culture in that locker room and the on the field. There have been countless posts about who would be a better coach in Dallas than Garrett. My contention (even though I've called for his head on more than one occasion) has been that I'm not sure that there IS a better coach for Dallas and it has very little to do with the football field. I don't think that there is a coach out there that would be better at navigating Jerry Jones than Jason Garrett. Are there better guys at the X's and O's? Sure, there could be a legitimate argument for that. There's a legitimate list of those guys. However, they wouldn't be able to operate the way that they normally operate when Jones goes "off the reservation" with some of his moves, commentary, and management style. There have been comments about Garret that he's a "great politician". Frankly, he has to be. He has to navigate the ramblings, undermining, and "maverick" of Jerry Jones while preaching and implementing a philosophy that flies in the face of some of the comments and actions of the guy at the top. That's not easy to do for a guy at Mini Mart, let alone a group of millionaires with billion dollar egos and (at times) ten cent heads.

Steven and Jason have something special going on, here. And as long as they can continue to convince Jerry that he's the guy responsible, then the sky is the limit. Stay the course and continue to draft well and be deliberate in FA and this could be the beginning of a very long run of successful seasons for the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[Nightman]

The problem with that philosophy is that you've now, actually, created a window that previously didn't exist. Look at the Patriots. RARELY do they bring in a high priced FA because it throws off the balance of their overall philosophy. They count on solid coaching and solid drafting to replace these guys that are going to "break the bank". The key to continuing on this upward arc, IMO, is to do exactly what we've been doing. Draft solid and coach them up.

Jason Garrett has taken a lot of heat over his tenure here in Dallas. A lot of it justified. However, his influence on this team and the roster, in general, cannot be denied. He has absolutely changed the culture in that locker room and the on the field. There have been countless posts about who would be a better coach in Dallas than Garrett. My contention (even though I've called for his head on more than one occasion) has been that I'm not sure that there IS a better coach for Dallas and it has very little to do with the football field. I don't think that there is a coach out there that would be better at navigating Jerry Jones than Jason Garrett. Are there better guys at the X's and O's? Sure, there could be a legitimate argument for that. There's a legitimate list of those guys. However, they wouldn't be able to operate the way that they normally operate when Jones goes "off the reservation" with some of his moves, commentary, and management style. There have been comments about Garret that he's a "great politician". Frankly, he has to be. He has to navigate the ramblings, undermining, and "maverick" of Jerry Jones while preaching and implementing a philosophy that flies in the face of some of the comments and actions of the guy at the top. That's not easy to do for a guy at Mini Mart, let alone a group of millionaires with billion dollar egos and (at times) ten cent heads.

Steven and Jason have something special going on, here. And as long as they can continue to convince Jerry that he's the guy responsible, then the sky is the limit. Stay the course and continue to draft well and be deliberate in FA and this could be the beginning of a very long run of successful seasons for the Dallas Cowboys.

All of that is true but it really has little do with roster creation

Whether you are a 1st round pick or 7th round pick.....whether you are a 16m player or UDFA...whether you are a DAL drafted player or another team's 26 year old you have to make good decisions.........

Having a few stars coincides with a young homegrown team.......it doesn't fight it.....if you signed Von Miller as a FA or drafted him and extended him does it matter?......

No one here suggests we stop making 2nd round and 7th round picks because we have very little success in those rounds historically.......that would be silly.......so it is just as silly to write off FA......NE and GB are not our models........they have all time coaching and all time FOs and all time QBs.......we have to find our way

If it really is a process and needs RKGs then so be it....but we can't write off any methods of finding the right ingredients

 

[waldoputty]

The problem with that philosophy is that you've now, actually, created a window that previously didn't exist. Look at the Patriots. RARELY do they bring in a high priced FA because it throws off the balance of their overall philosophy. They count on solid coaching and solid drafting to replace these guys that are going to "break the bank". The key to continuing on this upward arc, IMO, is to do exactly what we've been doing. Draft solid and coach them up.

Jason Garrett has taken a lot of heat over his tenure here in Dallas. A lot of it justified. However, his influence on this team and the roster, in general, cannot be denied. He has absolutely changed the culture in that locker room and the on the field. There have been countless posts about who would be a better coach in Dallas than Garrett. My contention (even though I've called for his head on more than one occasion) has been that I'm not sure that there IS a better coach for Dallas and it has very little to do with the football field. I don't think that there is a coach out there that would be better at navigating Jerry Jones than Jason Garrett. Are there better guys at the X's and O's? Sure, there could be a legitimate argument for that. There's a legitimate list of those guys. However, they wouldn't be able to operate the way that they normally operate when Jones goes "off the reservation" with some of his moves, commentary, and management style. There have been comments about Garret that he's a "great politician". Frankly, he has to be. He has to navigate the ramblings, undermining, and "maverick" of Jerry Jones while preaching and implementing a philosophy that flies in the face of some of the comments and actions of the guy at the top. That's not easy to do for a guy at Mini Mart, let alone a group of millionaires with billion dollar egos and (at times) ten cent heads.

Steven and Jason have something special going on, here. And as long as they can continue to convince Jerry that he's the guy responsible, then the sky is the limit. Stay the course and continue to draft well and be deliberate in FA and this could be the beginning of a very long run of successful seasons for the Dallas Cowboys.

I understand your point.
It is a really valid approach.

My point is that we are in an unique point in history of the NFL that allows us to go nuts to buy a couple Super Bowls for the next few years. The reason is that the cap going up $10M per year until 2021 due to TV contract. Never in history has this happened.

Furthermore, Romo, Witten (and Dez and couple others) will retire in 2-3 years or otherwise be gone. That is our get-out-of-jail card for escalating cap hell - we just need 1 (max 2) years to reset the cap escalation.

Finally, having 1-2 down years between 2 windows allows us to draft high for the 2-3 highend skilled players to replace Dez, Zeke. It does not pay to contend every year for 10 years because your stars are not bright as the stars that you get from being bad for 1-2 years. IMO it is much better to have a 50% to win the Super Bowl for 4 years and suffering 1-2 down years rather than contending for 10 straight years with a 25% of winning. I have the attitude frankly if we do not win the super bowl, then I rather we miss the playoffs.

IMO Dak, the OL and to some degree our other current assets (Zeke, Dez and possibly Jaylon now) defines the 10-15 year period by which we can have 2-3 windows of being the top contender in the league.

 

[skinsscalper]

All of that is true but it really has little do with roster creation

Whether you are a 1st round pick or 7th round pick.....whether you are a 16m player or UDFA...whether you are a DAL drafted player or another team's 26 year old you have to make good decisions.........

Having a few stars coincides with a young homegrown team.......it doesn't fight it.....if you signed Von Miller as a FA or drafted him and extended him does it matter?......

No one here suggests we stop making 2nd round and 7th round picks because we have very little success in those rounds historically.......that would be silly.......so it is just as silly to write off FA......NE and GB are not our models........they have all time coaching and all time FOs and all time QBs.......we have to find our way

If it really is a process and needs RKGs then so be it....but we can't write off any methods of finding the right ingredients

All of that is true, bk. However, I think teams that do well when it comes to FA are teams that re-sign their own guys rather than bringing in the high priced outside FAs. That philosophy backfires more often than not because owners, coaches, and players assume that the "new guy" is going to come in and produce at the same high level that he did at his previous stop, completely discounting some of the factors that made him successful at his previous stop (most commonly, his supporting cast or system). The situation is rarely as "plug and pay" as GMs and coaches assume/hope. So to a certain extent there IS a difference between drafting/re-signing a Von Miller than there is bringing him in as a UFA. As a UFA there is no level of certainty how he will perform in YOUR system under YOUR coaching. As a guy that you draft and re-sign there is (at that point) zero doubt about what he brings to your football team. But, to get there, you have to draft him first. Which in a long wordy roundabout way is what I was getting at re: Garrett/Jones. Keep up the solid drafting and breed these kids into your culture and the future is a lot less cloudy, IMHO.

I am with you that it's foolish to write off ANY means to improve your football team, however.

 

[Nightman]

Keep up the solid drafting and breed these kids into your culture and the future is a lot less cloudy,

That is very easy to agree with and helps eliminates the need for a lot of UFAs

 

[waldoputty]

All of that is true, bk. However, I think teams that do well when it comes to FA are teams that re-sign their own guys rather than bringing in the high priced outside FAs. That philosophy backfires more often than not because owners, coaches, and players assume that the "new guy" is going to come in and produce at the same high level that he did at his previous stop, completely discounting some of the factors that made him successful at his previous stop (most commonly, his supporting cast or system). The situation is rarely as "plug and pay" as GMs and coaches assume/hope. So to a certain extent there IS a difference between drafting/re-signing a Von Miller than there is bringing him in as a UFA. As a UFA there is no level of certainty how he will perform in YOUR system under YOUR coaching. As a guy that you draft and re-sign there is (at that point) zero doubt about what he brings to your football team. But, to get there, you have to draft him first. Which in a long wordy roundabout way is what I was getting at re: Garrett/Jones. Keep up the solid drafting and breed these kids into your culture and the future is a lot less cloudy, IMHO.

I am with you that it's foolish to write off ANY means to improve your football team, however.

I dont quite agree with this.
Denver bought in Manning and Ware, and possibly other guys to win.
The Giants rebuilt their DL in FA in one year.

I doubt most of our players are boy scouts.
RKG is nice, but most importantly we just need to avoid the real troublemakers.
NE had their star TE go to jail for quite a while.

 

[skinsscalper]

I understand your point.
It is a really valid approach.

My point is that we are in an unique point in history of the NFL that allows us to go nuts for the next few years. The reasons is that the cap going up $10M per year until 2021 due to TV contract. Never in history has this happened.

Furthermore, Romo, Witten (and Dez and couple others) will retire in 2-3 years or otherwise be gone. That is our get-out-of-jail card for escalating cap hell - we just need 1 (max 2) years to reset the cap escalation.

Finally, having 1-2 down years between 2 windows allow us to draft high for the 2-3 highend skilled players to replace Dez, Zeke. It does not pay to contend every year for 10 years because your stars are not bright as the stars that you get from being bad for 1-2 years. IMO it is much better to have a 50% to win the Super Bowl for 4 years and suffering 1-2 down years rather than contending with a 25% of winning.

IMO Dak and our current assets (OL, Zeke, Dez and possibly Jaylon now) defines the 10-15 year period by which we can have 2-3 windows of being the top contender in the league.

All very valid points my friend, however, I would tap the brakes on the expansion of the salary cap. League growth and revenue is finite. An argument could be made that the league has already reached a point of saturation. Television ratings would support that claim. There is room for the cap to grow with the current TV deals in place. However, if the trends continue, networks simply won't pay what they paid in this last deal because the "bang for the buck" is no longer there. We may actually see a situation where the cap actually goes DOWN after that 2021 contract expires. Now, that fact actually supports your philosophy. However, I'd rather contend year in and year out for the long haul (like the Patriots who are a contender EVERY SINGLE YEAR) than I would taking my chances a couple times a decade in an up again/down again FA splurge. The reason teams that are consistently in the mix are actually "in the mix" is because their approach and message rarely changes.

Either way, I appreciate the conversation that is actually thought provoking, waldo. Good thread, brother.

 

[waldoputty]

All very valid points my friend, however, I would tap the brakes on the expansion of the salary cap. League growth and revenue is finite. An argument could be made that the league has already reached a point of saturation. Television ratings would support that claim. There is room for the cap to grow with the current TV deals in place. However, if the trends continue, networks simply won't pay what they paid in this last deal because the "bang for the buck" is no longer there. We may actually see a situation where the cap actually goes DOWN after that 2021 contract expires. Now, that fact actually supports your philosophy. However, I'd rather contend year in and year out for the long haul (like the Patriots who are a contender EVERY SINGLE YEAR) than I would taking my chances a couple times a decade in an up again/down again FA splurge. The reason teams that are consistently in the mix are actually "in the mix" is because their approach and message rarely changes.

Either way, I appreciate the conversation that is actually thought provoking, waldo. Good thread, brother.

I am enjoying the thread also and value your thoughts.
This is fun.

LOL, I was adding to the TV revenues portion but my 20 minutes was up...
But you stated it better than I could!

We both understand the implications of the 2 strategies (for leveraging Dak's qualities), but just have different preferences.
It is the patient NE approach vs a wildcat stack-the-deck approach.
You can probably tell I am a fan of Jerry overall.
As you can probably tell, I am also a fan of the former 76ers GM's tanking strategy
Though it may not turn out well due to injuries...

But obviously both of us would like to push the Lombardi count from 5 to 7-8, where we belong...