Goodell and the refs have it out for the Cowboys?

[MarcusRock]

I agree they can be personable and joking around. That doesn't raise eyebrows for me. When the Patriots score a touchdown in the AFCCG against the Jaguars and two refs participate in the TD celebration then that's a bad look. After the AFCCG a ref comes up and personally congratulates Brady. Again not a good look considering that game had several momentum swinging calls go the Patriots way. Again not proof of anything but it just doesn't feel right. The refs shouldn't be smiling and clapping after a team scores a TD. Doesn't look very neutral. The refs didn't celebrate with the Jaguars when they scored. If they did then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't think I ever saw that game but is this the video you're talking about? There was a fight about to brew in the end zone and it looked like the ref thought one of the Patriots was going to strike a nearby Jags player but was obscured by an OL and didn't see the smaller RB behind him and went to break it up but it was 2 Patriots players celebrating and then laughed about it. Am I seeing this wrong?

 

[plymkr]

I don't think I ever saw that game but is this the video you're talking about? There was a fight about to brew in the end zone and it looked like the ref thought one of the Patriots was going to strike a nearby Jags player but was obscured by an OL and didn't see the smaller RB behind him and went to break it up but it was 2 Patriots players celebrating and then laughed about it. Am I seeing this wrong?

That's the game I'm talking about. I don't know if that's the video. At the end of that game is when the ref came up and personally congratulated Brady.

 

[MarcusRock]

That's the game I'm talking about. I don't know if that's the video. At the end of that game is when the ref came up and personally congratulated Brady.

Oh okay. I was talking about the celebrating a touchdown part. This would be that I'm guessing.

 

[Runwildboys]

I agree they can be personable and joking around. That doesn't raise eyebrows for me. When the Patriots score a touchdown in the AFCCG against the Jaguars and two refs participate in the TD celebration then that's a bad look. After the AFCCG a ref comes up and personally congratulates Brady. Again not a good look considering that game had several momentum swinging calls go the Patriots way. Again not proof of anything but it just doesn't feel right. The refs shouldn't be smiling and clapping after a team scores a TD. Doesn't look very neutral. The refs didn't celebrate with the Jaguars when they scored. If they did then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

You're right, the optics are bad, more so with smiling and clapping. (Though I'm taking your word that that's what they were clapping for. Are you sure they didn't find the celebration funny or something?) If the official was calling a biased game, I doubt he would have been seen shaking Brady's hand, but you never know.

 

[Jarv]

So case law precedence is wrong but someone connecting dots using fantasy suppositions isn't? Sorry bro. Never peddle that video trash again, okay? Lol.

Nope

 

[plymkr]

Oh okay. I was talking about the celebrating a touchdown part. This would be that I'm guessing.

You're right. That's the video I'm talking about. I found more on that game and I'll try and embed it into this post. But yes from that angle it does show more of the fight and if you clip it right it looks like the refs are smiling and celebrating with the patriots. here's more of the overall game.




Now hopefully I did that right because of I have had trouble putting these videos in here. I think the Barry Church hit on Gronk was a definite penalty. The DPI's and the hold that benefited the Patriots was eyebrow raising. Then you have the refs breaking up the fight and smiling with the Patriots and at the end of this game (not in the video) the ref came up to Tom and congratulates him. One of these things happening is not a big deal but put it all in context and it looks very bad. As someone stated earlier it's bad optics.

Here's my belief. I don't believe the games are rigged. I do believe if we as fans are going to accept the idea that plays happen within a micro second, bang bang bang, and sometimes the refs make mistakes because their human. I'm good with that as long as we also accept that humans can have subconscious or even conscious biases for or against certain players. I wouldn't put it past another human being to be proud or happy that they're on the field with Tom Brady. That can be something they can brag to their kids about or grandkids. Even if they try to be completely neutral, a human being can't be completely neutral even if they're trying. So if we accept that refs are humans that make mistake then I feel we have to accept that they could be biased.

 

[MarcusRock]

You're right. That's the video I'm talking about. I found more on that game and I'll try and embed it into this post. But yes from that angle it does show more of the fight and if you clip it right it looks like the refs are smiling and celebrating with the patriots. here's more of the overall game.




Now hopefully I did that right because of I have had trouble putting these videos in here. I think the Barry Church hit on Gronk was a definite penalty. The DPI's and the hold that benefited the Patriots was eyebrow raising. Then you have the refs breaking up the fight and smiling with the Patriots and at the end of this game (not in the video) the ref came up to Tom and congratulates him. One of these things happening is not a big deal but put it all in context and it looks very bad. As someone stated earlier it's bad optics.

Here's my belief. I don't believe the games are rigged. I do believe if we as fans are going to accept the idea that plays happen within a micro second, bang bang bang, and sometimes the refs make mistakes because their human. I'm good with that as long as we also accept that humans can have subconscious or even conscious biases for or against certain players. I wouldn't put it past another human being to be proud or happy that they're on the field with Tom Brady. That can be something they can brag to their kids about or grandkids. Even if they try to be completely neutral, a human being can't be completely neutral even if they're trying. So if we accept that refs are humans that make mistake then I feel we have to accept that they could be biased.

Delay of game - not typically called that soon if the CBS clock was accurate (disagree)
Holding - could have been called on 2 different Jags, plus nothing happened on the play (legit)
Hit on Gronk - hate it, but by today's rules, yeah (legit)
DPI - yeah that was blatant (legit)
Ref laughing during TD I already explained (nothing burger)
Fumble recovery was upheld (not sure why this one was in there, up 20-10 in the 4th with the ball they should have won)
2nd DPI - yeah Ramsey turned the receiver (legit)
2nd holding - inconclusive without video of the reverse angle; a still photo's not going to do it, plus never saw the defender complain

Overall I guess I'm not seeing it if these are the plays people complained about. Dare I say it but the Cowboys have suffered from more questionable calls/no-calls in a game than this. "The butt fumble that wasn't" against Chicago this year comes to mind.

 

[MarcusRock]

What got me about that play was that the ref didn't throw it at the snap. Usually refs throw that flag at the snap, like they do with illegal formation. But it's been too long for me to remember the exact delay.

I found that picture with the flag and ball circled. This is the picture that started the Cowboys "spygate" controversy because of the 2 Dallas "officials" on the Saints sideline. Lol.

 

[plymkr]

Delay of game - not typically called that soon if the CBS clock was accurate (disagree)
Holding - could have been called on 2 different Jags, plus nothing happened on the play (legit)
Hit on Gronk - hate it, but by today's rules, yeah (legit)
DPI - yeah that was blatant (legit)
Ref laughing during TD I already explained (nothing burger)
Fumble recovery was upheld (not sure why this one was in there, up 20-10 in the 4th with the ball they should have won)
2nd DPI - yeah Ramsey turned the receiver (legit)
2nd holding - inconclusive without video of the reverse angle; a still photo's not going to do it, plus never saw the defender complain

Overall I guess I'm not seeing it if these are the plays people complained about. Dare I say it but the Cowboys have suffered from more questionable calls/no-calls in a game than this. "The butt fumble that wasn't" against Chicago this year comes to mind.

Yeah I'm not going to get in a prolonged debate/discussion and go tit for tat. I'm going say it again. I don't believe the NFL is fixed or rigged. I do believe that refs are humans and humans make mistakes and can have biases for or against players/teams. I've developed this opinion through 40+ years of watching NFL. If you believe that refs are completely unbiased and neutral then more power to you. I respect your opinion and I don't think I'll be able to talk you out of it and I don't think you'll be able to talk me out of mine. I don't believe you're wrong and I don't believe I'm wrong, we just see it differently. I do respect how me and you can have a difference of opinion without personal attacks or insults. That's cool. I like these types of interactions.

 

[MarcusRock]

Yeah I'm not going to get in a prolonged debate/discussion and go tit for tat. I'm going say it again. I don't believe the NFL is fixed or rigged. I do believe that refs are humans and humans make mistakes and can have biases for or against players/teams. I've developed this opinion through 40+ years of watching NFL. If you believe that refs are completely unbiased and neutral then more power to you. I respect your opinion and I don't think I'll be able to talk you out of it and I don't think you'll be able to talk me out of mine. I don't believe you're wrong and I don't believe I'm wrong, we just see it differently. I do respect how me and you can have a difference of opinion without personal attacks or insults. That's cool. I like these types of interactions.

Hey, no worries. Like I said, I didn't see the game so that's different than just seeing these plays in a vacuum. I'm just rating these plays as they were presented. And thanks for providing the video. I just think it's hard to see bias play out in calls because no one can tell me what's a bias call and what's not a bias call in the same game and I think that's the case because it's impossible to tell. Likewise, I do like a respectful debate. I know sometimes I can come off harsh at people on here but in every one of those cases, they started it and I'm tellin' maw! Lol.

 

[MarcusRock]

Delay of game - not typically called that soon if the CBS clock was accurate (disagree)
Holding - could have been called on 2 different Jags, plus nothing happened on the play (legit)
Hit on Gronk - hate it, but by today's rules, yeah (legit)
DPI - yeah that was blatant (legit)
Ref laughing during TD I already explained (nothing burger)
Fumble recovery was upheld (not sure why this one was in there, up 20-10 in the 4th with the ball they should have won)
2nd DPI - yeah Ramsey turned the receiver (legit)
2nd holding - inconclusive without video of the reverse angle; a still photo's not going to do it, plus never saw the defender complain

@kskboys I've heard from you more than anyone about this game and how the refs helped the Pats which is why I know about it. Not sure what I was doing that I missed it, but just curious what you think about how I see these penalties that are all in one video. I know you think there was something fishy but call for call, I thought most were okay as called. Is there something else you think about all these?

 

[kskboys]

@kskboys I've heard from you more than anyone about this game and how the refs helped the Pats which is why I know about it. Not sure what I was doing that I missed it, but just curious what you think about how I see these penalties that are all in one video. I know you think there was something fishy but call for call, I thought most were okay as called. Is there something else you think about all these?

Overall picture, Marcus. Calls are made to keep games close. Not sure if they favor anyone. In that game, the Jax d had like 7 penalties called on them, when they'd only had around 5 all season. And then later in the game, every time Bortles made a play they called it back.

Penalties can be called on every play. What I'm seeing are timely penalties, possibly ignoring some obvious ones, as the refs did in the NO/MINNY debacle. Marcus, there is absolutely no way the refs missed a PI call when the defender crashed into the intended right before the ball got there. It was ignored, not missed, a mountain of a difference. There is absolutely no doubt that the refs saw the infraction, so the question then becomes, "WHY?" The only answer that makes sense is that they deliberately make calls to keep games close and for exciting endings. If that penalty is called, that game is over.

Why do you think the refs would ignore a blatantly obvious infraction?

 

[MarcusRock]

Overall picture, Marcus. Calls are made to keep games close. Not sure if they favor anyone. In that game, the Jax d had like 7 penalties called on them, when they'd only had around 5 all season. And then later in the game, every time Bortles made a play they called it back.

Penalties can be called on every play. What I'm seeing are timely penalties, possibly ignoring some obvious ones, as the refs did in the NO/MINNY debacle. Marcus, there is absolutely no way the refs missed a PI call when the defender crashed into the intended right before the ball got there. It was ignored, not missed, a mountain of a difference. There is absolutely no doubt that the refs saw the infraction, so the question then becomes, "WHY?" The only answer that makes sense is that they deliberately make calls to keep games close and for exciting endings. If that penalty is called, that game is over.

Why do you think the refs would ignore a blatantly obvious infraction?

First off, let's get the game situation right because everyone forgets that. It was 20-20 and a 3rd and 10 from the Rams 13 for the Saints. A regular play with no foul would not have been a 1st Down and the Saints are kicking a FG anyway. With a foul it was 1st and Goal at the 7. It was with 1:45 left and the Rams with 1 timeout. As Aikman pointed out, if the Rams DB plays the ball it's an INT and the Rams have to drive for a FG to win. As it were, the Rams drove for the FG to tie and in OT the Saints got the ball first, got a PI call (who allowed that if it was a setup?) and then Brees pressured by Dante Fowler throws a lollipop ball for the INT and the Rams get the FG for the win.

As for the foul, I remember rattling off about 5 examples off the top of my head of what it could have been besides he missed that PI on purpose. Could have been sick, on drugs, got distracted, something could have happened behind him that jolted him, he stumbled and didn't actually see. Don't know if he was the only one who was looking at the time and others couldn't see either? It was such a gargantuan miss but was there ever an interview with him about how he missed it? They interviewed all the refs after the Dez no-catch. Here is all I found which is nothing:

 

[Starstruck22]

Multiple times, everyday someone is complaining about Goodell and the refs having it out for the Cowboys. How they will help Brady out to beat the Cowboys or Rogers or anyone. I’ve asked the question multiple times of some of these posters of , “Who, how and why”. I’ve yet to get a response. So let me lay it out for you.

If Goodell has it out for the Cowboys and is using the refs to influence the game the process would play out something like this. Let’s just take one game. Say the first playoff game. Goodell would have to call in or meet virtually with the officiating crew for that game. Then tell them that he wants them to make sure the Cowboys don’t win or at the least if the call is questionable go in favor of the other team. These refs do this as mostly a hobby as they all have full time jobs. Some are Doctors, lawyers, pilots etc. They don’t need the money so you think any of them would do what Goodell asks? They have reputations to protect. Even if one of them accepted, do you think the other 4 would not tell someone? Of course they would because if they didn’t then they would be just as guilty.

And some of you say this happens every week so every officiating crew should have to be in on it. I mean it’s so ludicrous it’s just unbelievable so many here think this is happening.

The officiating crews for any game make mistakes. That’s what you’re seeing and not some intentional attempt to screw the Cowboys. And these mistakes more often than not, even out.

So this “Goodell and the refs” have it out for the Cowboys is pure conspiracy quackery.

Every Dallas game I watch the ref ALWAYS, ALWAYS spots the ball short of line to gain when it is close. All other games I watch the ref ALWAYS, ALWAYS spots the ball for first down when it is close. Why is this other than ref bias and payoff????

 

[MarcusRock]

Every Dallas game I watch the ref ALWAYS, ALWAYS spots the ball short of line to gain when it is close. All other games I watch the ref ALWAYS, ALWAYS spots the ball for first down when it is close. Why is this other than ref bias and payoff????

You mean like during this game? Lol.

 

[Rockport]

Every Dallas game I watch the ref ALWAYS, ALWAYS spots the ball short of line to gain when it is close. All other games I watch the ref ALWAYS, ALWAYS spots the ball for first down when it is close. Why is this other than ref bias and payoff????

 

[kskboys]

First off, let's get the game situation right because everyone forgets that. It was 20-20 and a 3rd and 10 from the Rams 13 for the Saints. A regular play with no foul would not have been a 1st Down and the Saints are kicking a FG anyway. With a foul it was 1st and Goal at the 7. It was with 1:45 left and the Rams with 1 timeout. As Aikman pointed out, if the Rams DB plays the ball it's an INT and the Rams have to drive for a FG to win. As it were, the Rams drove for the FG to tie and in OT the Saints got the ball first, got a PI call (who allowed that if it was a setup?) and then Brees pressured by Dante Fowler throws a lollipop ball for the INT and the Rams get the FG for the win.

As for the foul, I remember rattling off about 5 examples off the top of my head of what it could have been besides he missed that PI on purpose. Could have been sick, on drugs, got distracted, something could have happened behind him that jolted him, he stumbled and didn't actually see. Don't know if he was the only one who was looking at the time and others couldn't see either? It was such a gargantuan miss but was there ever an interview with him about how he missed it? They interviewed all the refs after the Dez no-catch. Here is all I found which is nothing:

Sounds like a BS answer to me.

That call could not have been missed. Impossible.

 

[kskboys]

First off, let's get the game situation right because everyone forgets that. It was 20-20 and a 3rd and 10 from the Rams 13 for the Saints. A regular play with no foul would not have been a 1st Down and the Saints are kicking a FG anyway. With a foul it was 1st and Goal at the 7. It was with 1:45 left and the Rams with 1 timeout. As Aikman pointed out, if the Rams DB plays the ball it's an INT and the Rams have to drive for a FG to win. As it were, the Rams drove for the FG to tie and in OT the Saints got the ball first, got a PI call (who allowed that if it was a setup?) and then Brees pressured by Dante Fowler throws a lollipop ball for the INT and the Rams get the FG for the win.

As for the foul, I remember rattling off about 5 examples off the top of my head of what it could have been besides he missed that PI on purpose. Could have been sick, on drugs, got distracted, something could have happened behind him that jolted him, he stumbled and didn't actually see. Don't know if he was the only one who was looking at the time and others couldn't see either? It was such a gargantuan miss but was there ever an interview with him about how he missed it? They interviewed all the refs after the Dez no-catch. Here is all I found which is nothing:

Oh, and you're throwing out so many details, you're missing the point. 1st and goal from the 7, barring some real stupidity, ends the game.

 

[Rockport]

Overall picture, Marcus. Calls are made to keep games close. Not sure if they favor anyone. In that game, the Jax d had like 7 penalties called on them, when they'd only had around 5 all season. And then later in the game, every time Bortles made a play they called it back.

Penalties can be called on every play. What I'm seeing are timely penalties, possibly ignoring some obvious ones, as the refs did in the NO/MINNY debacle. Marcus, there is absolutely no way the refs missed a PI call when the defender crashed into the intended right before the ball got there. It was ignored, not missed, a mountain of a difference. There is absolutely no doubt that the refs saw the infraction, so the question then becomes, "WHY?" The only answer that makes sense is that they deliberately make calls to keep games close and for exciting endings. If that penalty is called, that game is over.

Why do you think the refs would ignore a blatantly obvious infraction?

What proof do you have of this? No need to answer because you have squat for proof other than after a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black.

 

[Captain-Crash]

and nobody would have believed Tim Donaghy's NBA scandal. The commissioner was probably in on it too.