Goose - "I'd be surprised if the Cowboys DON'T go DL"

[Chocolate Lab]

Gurode wasn't a sub-par guard. He had trouble in Parcells' system and functioned better at C for whatever reason, but he played G for quite a while before he was moved. His early problems seemed to be more about immaturity than anything, so I suspect he'd have been fine at G later on, too.

And who said Iupati was a second rounder in our eyes? I thought the talk was that we loved the guy.

 

[Hoofbite]

Gurode wasn't a sub-par guard. He had trouble in Parcells' system and functioned better at C for whatever reason, but he played G for quite a while before he was moved. His early problems seemed to be more about immaturity than anything, so I suspect he'd have been fine at G later on, too.

And who said Iupati was a second rounder in our eyes? I thought the talk was that we loved the guy.

Yep, pretty sure the buzz was that Dallas liked Iupati.

 

[Nexx]

Yup. So many people claim we have to take OL to be help Romo, but how does it help Romo to have to play from behind all game every week?

And someone asked what decent guard we'd drafted since 1994... Andre Gurode was a pretty good guard.

id like to keep romo from getting killed like he has the last two years. we zero chance to make the playoffs with romo injured.

 

[jterrell]

id like to keep romo from getting killed like he has the last two years. we zero chance to make the playoffs with romo injured.

We have the same zero chance with a CB getting beat for a 90+ yard TD on a 5 yard pass. Or getting hopped over by an unathletic spare h-back type player.

Romo had numbers eerily similar to Eli last year yet both teams cratered until the Giants got their defense going with a plus pass rush and excellent coverage.

The 49ers who everyone touts for their OL strategy allowed 5 more sacks and one more QB hit than our "porous" OL. And they played in that terrible NFCW.

The Ravens with Ben Grubbs and the various r1 OL we all admire allowed 6 less sacks but only 3 less Qb hits.

Dallas was 19th in sacks allowed and 22nd in hits allowed. Those are below average numbers but pale in comparison to how poorly our secondary ranked.

We were also tied for 9th in rushing per attempt. Which is a plus stat for the OL.

 

[dmq]

I think this is a thread where both sides are right. We need defensive and offensive help. For me though, I would love to see the combination of Murray and Felix with a good OL.

 

[jterrell]

I think this is a thread where both sides are right. We need defensive and offensive help. For me though, I would love to see the combination of Murray and Felix with a good OL.

The OL is probably underrated now. The team has already swapped Tyron Smith and Doug Free which potentially gives up top 5 players at their respective positions.

David Arkin is a r4 OG who scouts loved but knew he needed a year or so in the weight room. Nagy was a plus player coming off of injury that got better as he played.

Kosta produced very poorly and Kowalski is over-matched but the OL isn't bereft of returning talent. And it can easily be upgraded without spending pick 14.

It is kind alike a 20 year old kid saying, "hey I gotta have a car to get to school", so they get a 700 per month lease on a new camaro.

There is a such a thing as proper allocation of resources.

 

[newlander]

The OL is probably underrated now. The team has already swapped Tyron Smith and Doug Free which potentially gives up top 5 players at their respective positions.

David Arkin is a r4 OG who scouts loved but knew he needed a year or so in the weight room. Nagy was a plus player coming off of injury that got better as he played.

Kosta produced very poorly and Kowalski is over-matched but the OL isn't bereft of returning talent. And it can easily be upgraded without spending pick 14.

It is kind alike a 20 year old kid saying, "hey I gotta have a car to get to school", so they get a 700 per month lease on a new camaro.

There is a such a thing as proper allocation of resources.

....both the oline and dline are so thin and really need 3 players each....2 guards and a center on offense and 2 tackles and a D.end on the other side of the ball.......that's what crappy drafting year in and year out gets you really. I think they go best player available : decastro or Poe with Glenn as a fall back if the other two are gone..

 

[CATCH17]

Gurode wasn't a sub-par guard. He had trouble in Parcells' system and functioned better at C for whatever reason, but he played G for quite a while before he was moved. His early problems seemed to be more about immaturity than anything, so I suspect he'd have been fine at G later on, too.

And who said Iupati was a second rounder in our eyes? I thought the talk was that we loved the guy.

According to Hostile....

 

[Hoofbite]

The OL is probably underrated now. The team has already swapped Tyron Smith and Doug Free which potentially gives up top 5 players at their respective positions.

David Arkin is a r4 OG who scouts loved but knew he needed a year or so in the weight room. Nagy was a plus player coming off of injury that got better as he played.

Kosta produced very poorly and Kowalski is over-matched but the OL isn't bereft of returning talent. And it can easily be upgraded without spending pick 14.

It is kind alike a 20 year old kid saying, "hey I gotta have a car to get to school", so they get a 700 per month lease on a new camaro.

There is a such a thing as proper allocation of resources.

The OL sucks.

Tyron is the only player anyone can have any confidence in.

Whether or not Free was good at RT doesn't mean anything now because he was good at LT too before dropping a big turd this last season.

I wouldn't call drafting a G an unproper allocation of resources.

Now, you want to talk about proper allocation of resources, what part of having an equal number of TEs and OL players taken in the 2nd rounder or higher since 2004 fits that mold?

Dallas has ignored the OL for so long. I honestly can't believe they'd like to see it continue.

 

[jjktkk]

I think this is a thread where both sides are right. We need defensive and offensive help. For me though, I would love to see the combination of Murray and Felix with a good OL.

Agree. And even though I'd prefer the Boys to take Poe, if hes there at 14, I'd have no qualms what so ever if they take DeCastro. Its just not very often that Dallas has been in position to draft a player with Poe's measurables.

 

[jjktkk]

The OL sucks.

Tyron is the only player anyone can have any confidence in.

Whether or not Free was good at RT doesn't mean anything now because he was good at LT too before dropping a big turd this last season.

I wouldn't call drafting a G an unproper allocation of resources.

Now, you want to talk about proper allocation of resources, what part of having an equal number of TEs and OL players taken in the 2nd rounder or higher since 2004 fits that mold?

Dallas has ignored the OL for so long. I honestly can't believe they'd like to see it continue.

I agree, but why can't they address it in free agency?

 

[Hoofbite]

I agree, but why can't they address it in free agency?

They could but I don't see why it matters where they upgrade each spot so long as as many holes as possible are filled.

Obviously going to cost more to get a G in FA.

Center is a nice FA target, as is CB because the CBs in the draft who will be available are sketchy at 14.

Personally, given the complexity of Ryan's system I'd rather Dallas get experienced players in FA to address as many holes in the defense as they can.

Expecting a rookie to come in right away and hit the ground running isn't going to happen.

DeCastro has as much experience as anyone would want and has played in a pro-style offense. He will hit the ground running.

 

[newlander]

I agree, but why can't they address it in free agency?

.....but it's so DAMN expensive and throws your cap outta wack: we all want Nicks but he wants Otackle money. I agree with Hos' scenario: Oline will be built in draft and defense (line and cb's) through free agency Economics and the cap pretty much demand that it fall this way: sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[jjktkk]

.....but it's so DAMN expensive and throws your cap outta wack: we all want Nicks but he wants Otackle money. I agree with Hos' scenario: Oline will be built in draft and defense (line and cb's) through free agency Economics and the cap pretty much demand that it fall this way: sucks, but it is what it is.

TBH I never really thought Nicks would be available, but it wouldn't be too pricey to sign a quality FA G, and C imo.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

It's not like great players can't come from 14.

By no means is it impossible but its far from guaranteed you get a guy that's good. Revis is a rarity. Like Ed Reed or Polamalu. More often then not, DBs are okay at best.

Here's a list of DBs taken from the 2005 - 2009 Drafts, picked 20th or higher.

There wasn't a DB taken in the 1st round in 2010 and it's too early to say anything about 2011.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=P91nv

How many guys on that list would you call playmakers or difference makers?

Our last 3 top 1st round picks in the draft were for offense (Tyron, Dez, Felix). The first pick is by far the most important pick in the draft, cause it can make or destroy a team and also shape its direction. And what you wanna do is make offense our 4th top 1st round pick in a row.[/quote[

I don't see why that matters at all. It's not like Dallas didn't use it's fair share on defensive picks in the years prior.

Ware
Spears
Spencer
Carpenter
Jenkins

Those guys were all taken in consecutive years. 4 straight years of defensive players. Granted Jenkins was combo'd with Felix so count that however you want.

What side of the ball shouldn't be an issue at all. You could probably argue against a position based on all the resources used there prior but what side of the ball is just a stretch.

DeMarcus Ware is 29, will be 30. Not exactly running out of sand in the hourglass.

Romo probably has a few years in him as well.

I don't think time is so limited that this season or next season is do or die.

What happens between now and 12 months from now that takes Romo or Ware out for good?

Well first of all, anything can happen the older they get. I'm all for looking forward, but at a certain point you have to stop saying the ol' Brooklyn Dodgers motto of 'wait til next year'.

The NFL has so much parity that its not that hard to have a great offseason, and make the playoffs where anything can happen. You have said how close we were in those games, and if true that makes the case even more.

In order to do this, we have drafted freaks with risk over the last 2 drafts in the 1st round. I'm willing to accept the risk for the potential reward, and I know for sure we can rarely get a top pass rusher in free agency, but pretty much every great guard has hit the market eventually.

You get those premium front 7 guys with a top 15 pick. Now I figure it will depend on who drops, cause the way I see it all the guys I want could be gone by the time we pick anyway.

Yup. So many people claim we have to take OL to be help Romo, but how does it help Romo to have to play from behind all game every week?

And someone asked what decent guard we'd drafted since 1994... Andre Gurode was a pretty good guard.

Yeah I've been preaching balance for so long that I hear the word in my sleep.

 

[cowboysooner]

5 of the 17 db's were impact players. That is not great. Looking at that makes me prefer Janoris Jenkins because if he is not crazy he will be a good player . He is an A or and F.

 

[jnday]

Yeah I've been preaching balance for so long that I hear the word in my sleep. [/QUOTE]
It is not balance you have been preaching . The only way that you would think it is balanced was if the first pick was used on defense inspite of the fact that a better player may be available .

 

[Deep_Freeze]

It is not balance you have been preaching . The only way that you would think it is balanced was if the first pick was used on defense inspite of the fact that a better player may be available .

Well, we do have more holes on D than we do on offense, just a fact. He need help at every level of our D, and thats just not true about the offense.

So of course we would be better off spending most of our resources on D this year. Now if we can get someone in free agency to really have a huge impact on the D, like a Carr and Mario (or another front 7 upgrade), then I'm all for DeCastro.

It just not a black and white subject right now, like its made out to be. One depends on the other, if we can get G and C help in free agency, then D is even more a concentration come draft time. If we get D help in free agency, then we can take DeCastro with satisfaction.

What I don't understand is how its not seen that what we do in free agency has a huge determiner on what we do in the draft. I don't wanna go all D, just like I don't wanna go all offense. Doesn't make for a good team in the long term at all.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Poe or Decastro are great but someone else could fall that would be better like the top DE Coples ot the top rated DT Brockers or even the best LB in the Draft Ingram. Even Devon Still could be the better option.

Bottom line for this team is that an elite DE does just as much as an elite Gaurd, while a true 3/4 NT does alot more than either one.

 

[jnday]

Well, we do have more holes on D than we do on offense, just a fact. He need help at every level of our D, and thats just not true about the offense.

So of course we would be better off spending most of our resources on D this year. Now if we can get someone in free agency to really have a huge impact on the D, like a Carr and Mario (or another front 7 upgrade), then I'm all for DeCastro.

It just not a black and white subject right now, like its made out to be. One depends on the other, if we can get G and C help in free agency, then D is even more a concentration come draft time. If we get D help in free agency, then we can take DeCastro with satisfaction.

What I don't understand is how its not seen that what we do in free agency has a huge determiner on what we do in the draft. I don't wanna go all D, just like I don't wanna go all offense. Doesn't make for a good team in the long term at all.

I think it is a black and white subject . If DeCastro is the best player available at 14 , then he should be the pick . Free agency shouldn't play into it . If DeCastro is not the BPA , I have no problem with picking another player . I don't believe in drafting for offense or defense , just the BPA . DeCastro looks to be the BPA at 14 with the info we have now . It is all speculation at this point .