Gordon vs Coleman

BlindFaith

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James White (4th rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
Montee Ball (2nd rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
John Clay (undrafted), 2 1,000 yard years in college
P.J. Hill (undrafted), 3 1,000 yard years in college
Brian Calhoun (3rd rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Anthony Davis (7th rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
Michael Bennett (1st rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Ron Dayne (1st rd), 4 1,000 yard years in college
Carl McCullough (undrafted), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Terrell Fletcher (2nd rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Brent Moss (undrafted), 1 1,000 yard year in college

22 Wisconsin offensive linemen have been selected in the NFL Draft since 1993. Six of those 22 were chosen in the first round.

While Wisconsin linemen like Mark Tauscher and Joe Thomas have enjoyed great success in the NFL, the runners they blocked for have often struggled. Moss, McCullough, Davis, Calhoun, Hill, and Clay played little or no time in the NFL. Fletcher, a second round pick in 1995, played eight unproductive years as a backup with the Chargers.

Bennett was a Pro Bowler in 2002 with the Vikings, but subsequently struggled with injuries and fumbling problems as he bounced around the league. Dayne, the 1999 Heisman winner, was overweight during his tenure with the New York Giants and could never establish himself as a reliable starting running back.

Ball has seen his role expand as the 2013 season went on. Backing up Knowshon Moreno on the AFC champion Denver Broncos, Ball rushed for 559 yards in the regular season.

http://isportsweb.com/2014/01/28/wisconsin-football-history-strong-running-backs/

Tell me how you can put any faith in Wisconsin RB's. All of those guys were extremely successful in college, but did little to nothing in the NFL.
 
Future

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ccb04 said:
I like Coleman quite a bit, but certainly wouldn't say he's among the more elusive backs in the draft...because he's not. Demarco Murray wasn't either. I see it similar to this: "Coleman has a DeMarco Murrayish skill-set, in Brugler's words. Dallas' line creates a lot of yards on their own, but it is difficult to find a back who can consistently create on their own."

A key I took from his comments, is that it's difficult to find a back that can consistently create on their own. I'd go so far as to say it's somewhat rare in the NFL. Murray certainly isn't gonna Barry Sanders his way down the field. Neither is Coleman...or very many others, particularly on a consistent basis in the NFL.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that stats don't always tell the whole story. The 12.2% stat is interesting in that we also have this stat: "Coleman finished No. 4 in the country behind only Todd Gurley, Nick Chubb and Josh Robinson with a 3.2 yards-after-contact average." I'd say the 12.2% stat has more to do with Coleman being less elusive than some of the others...and perhaps also having the ability to erase pursuit angles with his speed, especially at the college level. If he entered the 2nd level, he was often gone.
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If I had to guess, that 12.2% stat stems a lot from the fact that he was getting hit by LBs and DL a lot more than Gordon and Gurley who could get to the second level and make a move on DBs.

I think the whole point of this debate shouldn't be whether or not Coleman is better than Gordon. He's not.

The point is, Gordon hasn't really done enough to distance himself from these guys who are going to be taken much later to warrant a high draft pick.
 
BlindFaith

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Future said:
I think the whole point of this debate shouldn't be whether or not Coleman is better than Gordon. He's not.
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I don't think real NFL teams see it this way. I actually have Gordon as the 4th or 5th ranked RB.
 
BlindFaith

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locked&loaded said:
wait, dyanastynerds said that?!?! this changes everything...
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lol. I know, I was reaching. I called several NFL teams and asked for their RB rankings but didn't get them to offer anything up. So I resorted to the interweb.
 
locked&loaded

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BlindFaith said:
lol. I know, I was reaching. I called several NFL teams and asked for their RB rankings but didn't get them to offer anything up. So I resorted to the interweb.
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yeah, i am just being an ***. Really no need for debate, we can just wait until thursday. Obviously you not having Gordon in the top two rbs puts you in the minority, but who knows, you may be right when looking back.

Personally, I would be grinning ear to ear if we got Gordon.
 
ABQCOWBOY

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There is no Barry Sanders in this draft. There is no Emmitt either, IMO. What teams need to do is draft to the strength of their running games. We don't need a super elusive guy who can create on their own. We need a guy who can plant a foot and get through the holes that our OL is going to create. A guy who can get by the LBs quick and get to the secondary where they can match up against DBs. We need a guy who can get you the two yards on 3rd and short or 4th and 1. We need a guy who can put pressure on LBs and Safeties by catching the ball out of the backfield. We need a guy who can pick up the blitz and save our QB from getting lit up. It would be nice to have a guy who could do it all but that guy, IMO, is not in this draft.
 
Doomsday101

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BlindFaith said:
James White (4th rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
Montee Ball (2nd rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
John Clay (undrafted), 2 1,000 yard years in college
P.J. Hill (undrafted), 3 1,000 yard years in college
Brian Calhoun (3rd rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Anthony Davis (7th rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
Michael Bennett (1st rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Ron Dayne (1st rd), 4 1,000 yard years in college
Carl McCullough (undrafted), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Terrell Fletcher (2nd rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Brent Moss (undrafted), 1 1,000 yard year in college

22 Wisconsin offensive linemen have been selected in the NFL Draft since 1993. Six of those 22 were chosen in the first round.

While Wisconsin linemen like Mark Tauscher and Joe Thomas have enjoyed great success in the NFL, the runners they blocked for have often struggled. Moss, McCullough, Davis, Calhoun, Hill, and Clay played little or no time in the NFL. Fletcher, a second round pick in 1995, played eight unproductive years as a backup with the Chargers.

Bennett was a Pro Bowler in 2002 with the Vikings, but subsequently struggled with injuries and fumbling problems as he bounced around the league. Dayne, the 1999 Heisman winner, was overweight during his tenure with the New York Giants and could never establish himself as a reliable starting running back.

Ball has seen his role expand as the 2013 season went on. Backing up Knowshon Moreno on the AFC champion Denver Broncos, Ball rushed for 559 yards in the regular season.

http://isportsweb.com/2014/01/28/wisconsin-football-history-strong-running-backs/

Tell me how you can put any faith in Wisconsin RB's. All of those guys were extremely successful in college, but did little to nothing in the NFL.
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Because scouts look at the overall skill sets not just what college you went to. They rate him as highly as they do based on the physical skills.

As for Coleman I like him a lot as well but I would never take a guy or not take a guy based on where he went to college or what others before him did or did not do, I try to judge each player on their own merits not those of others
 
Stash

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Hardline said:
I stole this from another Cowboy forum. Credit to Bayou-Cowboy at Cowboys-Forum.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought it would be interesting since both were from the Big 10 to compare Gordon and Coleman vs like opponents.

Here's the breakdown:

Bowling Green:
Gordon: 13/253 19.5 ypc 5 TDs
Coleman: 24/190 7.9 ypc 3 TDs

Maryland:
Gordon: 22/122 5.5 ypc 3 TDs
Coleman: 22/122 5.5 ypc 1 TD

Rutgers:
Gordon: 19/128 6.7 ypc 2 TDs
Coleman: 32/307 9.6 ypc 1 TD

Purdue:
Gordon: 25/205 8.2 ypc 1 TD
Coleman: 29/130 4.5 ypc 0 TD

Iowa:
Gordon: 31/200 6.5 ypc 2 TDs
Coleman: 15/219 14.6 ypc 3 TDs

Ohio St:
Gordon: 26/76 2.9 ypc 0 TD
Coleman: 27/228 8.4 ypc 3 TDs

Totals:
Gordon: 136/984 7.2 ypc 13 TDs
Coleman: 149/1196 8.0 ypc 11TDs


Obviously different players, different teams, but based "solely" on like opponents Coleman matches up very favorably and in some instances exceeded Gordon.
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Sorry, I'm late to the party, but this is some good stuff here, thanks for taking the time to post it.

Speaking for myself, I prefer Coleman to Gordon and would be happy if someone else drafted Gordon.
 
fishspill

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BlindFaith said:
James White (4th rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
Montee Ball (2nd rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
John Clay (undrafted), 2 1,000 yard years in college
P.J. Hill (undrafted), 3 1,000 yard years in college
Brian Calhoun (3rd rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Anthony Davis (7th rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
Michael Bennett (1st rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Ron Dayne (1st rd), 4 1,000 yard years in college
Carl McCullough (undrafted), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Terrell Fletcher (2nd rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Brent Moss (undrafted), 1 1,000 yard year in college

22 Wisconsin offensive linemen have been selected in the NFL Draft since 1993. Six of those 22 were chosen in the first round.

While Wisconsin linemen like Mark Tauscher and Joe Thomas have enjoyed great success in the NFL, the runners they blocked for have often struggled. Moss, McCullough, Davis, Calhoun, Hill, and Clay played little or no time in the NFL. Fletcher, a second round pick in 1995, played eight unproductive years as a backup with the Chargers.

Bennett was a Pro Bowler in 2002 with the Vikings, but subsequently struggled with injuries and fumbling problems as he bounced around the league. Dayne, the 1999 Heisman winner, was overweight during his tenure with the New York Giants and could never establish himself as a reliable starting running back.

Ball has seen his role expand as the 2013 season went on. Backing up Knowshon Moreno on the AFC champion Denver Broncos, Ball rushed for 559 yards in the regular season.

http://isportsweb.com/2014/01/28/wisconsin-football-history-strong-running-backs/

Tell me how you can put any faith in Wisconsin RB's. All of those guys were extremely successful in college, but did little to nothing in the NFL.
Click to expand...

Lot of Michigan QBs have disappointed, but if you're the team with Tom Brady you don't care.
 
BlindFaith

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Doomsday101 said:
Because scouts look at the overall skill sets not just what college you went to. They rate him as highly as they do based on the physical skills.

As for Coleman I like him a lot as well but I would never take a guy or not take a guy based on where he went to college or what others before him did or did not do, I try to judge each player on their own merits not those of others
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Has nothing to do with the fact he went to Miami. What he did while he was there was special. To out rush and out average the players on that list is extraordinary. You don't do that unless you are skilled and can carry a heavy workload.
 
BlindFaith

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fishspill said:
Lot of Michigan QBs have disappointed, but if you're the team with Tom Brady you don't care.
Click to expand...

Quarterback U

University of Michigan[edit]
In recent years, sportswriters have mentioned several schools as being appropriate for the designation. A 2005 ESPN article cited that, since 1988, Michigan sent as many starting quarterbacks to the NFL as the University of Miami. It argued that "three yards and a cloud of dust" is no longer the offensive philosophy at Michigan.[34] A year later, Rivals.com proclaimed that Michigan was "the new Quarterback U."[35][36] Elvis Grbac, Todd Collins, Tom Brady, Jim Harbaugh, Brian Griese and Chad Henne are some of the Wolverine quarterbacks that have gone on to start in the NFL.[34]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_U

And lumping in QB to this discussion isn't really fair. QBs in general tend to flame out in a much higher percentage than other positions. So much goes into being a good QB.
 
xwalker

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BlindFaith said:
James White (4th rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
Montee Ball (2nd rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
John Clay (undrafted), 2 1,000 yard years in college
P.J. Hill (undrafted), 3 1,000 yard years in college
Brian Calhoun (3rd rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Anthony Davis (7th rd), 2 1,000 yard years in college
Michael Bennett (1st rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Ron Dayne (1st rd), 4 1,000 yard years in college
Carl McCullough (undrafted), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Terrell Fletcher (2nd rd), 1 1,000 yard year in college
Brent Moss (undrafted), 1 1,000 yard year in college

22 Wisconsin offensive linemen have been selected in the NFL Draft since 1993. Six of those 22 were chosen in the first round.

While Wisconsin linemen like Mark Tauscher and Joe Thomas have enjoyed great success in the NFL, the runners they blocked for have often struggled. Moss, McCullough, Davis, Calhoun, Hill, and Clay played little or no time in the NFL. Fletcher, a second round pick in 1995, played eight unproductive years as a backup with the Chargers.

Bennett was a Pro Bowler in 2002 with the Vikings, but subsequently struggled with injuries and fumbling problems as he bounced around the league. Dayne, the 1999 Heisman winner, was overweight during his tenure with the New York Giants and could never establish himself as a reliable starting running back.

Ball has seen his role expand as the 2013 season went on. Backing up Knowshon Moreno on the AFC champion Denver Broncos, Ball rushed for 559 yards in the regular season.

http://isportsweb.com/2014/01/28/wisconsin-football-history-strong-running-backs/

Tell me how you can put any faith in Wisconsin RB's. All of those guys were extremely successful in college, but did little to nothing in the NFL.
Click to expand...

Good post.

That is an ugly list.

It does seem that Gordon might be a bit overrated. He looked really fast playing Bowling Green, and had a lot of success purely by outrunning defenders. When he went up against Ohio State that did work as well and he average 3x yard per carry.
 
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