Grantland: The Cowboys have built the leagues best OL, but at what cost?

[ABQcowboyJR]

Interesting how he referenced Bowman and Willis, yet fails to mention guys like Lee, Claiborne, OScan, Church...

 

[Idgit]

Well, trading back and then tacking Frederick if he was their best available at #30 is sticking with their board.

You might be correct about 2014. But as Jones said after the draft, JM was never a serious consideration.

We've got higher rated players on our board when we select much of the time, I'm sure. There are too many factors that go into being a good NFL player that have nothing to do with college production or physical ability (scheme fit, availability of playing time, the composition of the rest of the team's roster)...these things factor into the your estimation of the players ability and affect whether or not he's actually the best player available at that slot for your team. In Manziel's case, if he's not going to get the time he needs to develop, and he's going to bring with him a world of speculation you don't want to be dealing with, then--even if he's the highest rated guy on your board based off of his college production and NFL projection--he's still not the best pick available for your team.

Also, he's an idiot.

 

[DFWJC]

Yeah, he forgets that our 1st round pick last year netted us both a starting AND a Now starting WR.

Then this year, If we couldn't find a fair trade down, Martin (or maybe Mosley) was the clear choice.

Our biggest draft blunder by far lately has been giving both a 1st and 2nd rounder for Mo Claiborne....not drafting starting olineman.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

We've got higher rated players on our board when we select much of the time, I'm sure. There are too many factors that go into being a good NFL player that have nothing to do with college production or physical ability (scheme fit, availability of playing time, the composition of the rest of the team's roster)...these things factor into the your estimation of the players ability and affect whether or not he's actually the best player available at that slot for your team. In Manziel's case, if he's not going to get the time he needs to develop, and he's going to bring with him a world of speculation you don't want to be dealing with, then--even if he's the highest rated guy on your board based off of his college production and NFL projection--he's still not the best pick available for your team.

Also, he's an idiot.

I feel like all of those considerations should be taken into account when formulating the draft board. Without trades draft day should super smooth just take whoever is at the top of the list.

 

[Idgit]

I feel like all of those considerations should be taken into account when formulating the draft board. Without trades draft day should super smooth just take whoever is at the top of the list.

Yep. The obvious problem with that is that you need to accomodate trades. So you have rank players overall, and then subsort them relative to the fit and value for your team.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

This team needs to start hitting on some of their #2 thru #7 draft picks, then there will be no "cost" to building a decent OL, or defense, or whatever...

 

[jrumann59]

This team needs to start hitting on some of their #2 thru #7 draft picks, then there will be no "cost" to building a decent OL, or defense, or whatever...

You mean 4-7. Usually most 1-3 rounders are supposed to be immediate contributors if not starters.

 

[Rockport]

There is not cost. To be a playoff team in the NFL you have to be able to control both lines of scrimmage. Starting with the OL because of the more technical aspects of playing the OL it takes a little longer to learn and get comfortable with. Being able to run the ball effectively is a must in the NFL.

 

[burmafrd]

amusing how some here still whine about taking O line players high; no coincidence that some of them were fine with Costa and Livings and the rest of those jags.

 

[khiladi]

I do believe we were targeting an offensive lineman last year pretty much no matter what, but this year was just the way that the draft fell and I don't mind because we're probably going to go as far as this offense will take us.

No, we were not. We were targeting defense at that number with Sharif Lloyd. Jerry over-ruled at the last minute based on consulting Marinelli and Kiffen. There are articles out there on exactly this confusion during the draft day.

 

[CCBoy]

You're entirely missing the point.

The argument was that the Cowboys were sticking to their draft board. My take is that they weren't.

It has nothing to do with your opinion of Manziel or Floyd.

Know how many Aggies it takes to conduct brain surgery, neither does anyone else.

The specifics were related to a draft board and how they are used during a draft. So, if a kicker is rated before the 3rd round, and your team needs guards to function, you are saying that the kicker should then be drafted to comply with a points value on your draft board.

Hostile will love this one...

 

[CCBoy]

I thought this was a sloppy, uninspired article by Grantland's standards.

The last couple of sentences didn't make any sense. The Niners drafted the same way and found quality defensive players. Why can't the Cowboys do the same thing? And they did find Sean Lee and Bruce Carter. Just Lee can't stay healthy.

I have no problems about how we've built the O-Line. Tyron was a must needed pick. Benardeau/Leary are basically taken for fish heads and rice. Doug Free should have been given his original contract extension and we re-did his deal after a disastrous 2012 season. Frederick is hardly a big hit. And in the end, Martin was the right pick. Particularly for the future.

Our problems on defense have been in large part due to injuries. And if we have an issue, it's what type of players we look for in the secondary (light tackling cover corners and go cheap on safety).

If there's anything that separates the Niners from us, it's those two issues (injuries and the makeup of DB's).

You take what the draft gives you and you don't just take a lesser player because you've drafted too many players of similar positions.






YR

Points on, and not to mention that in free agency, defensive ends are relatively easy to pick up in today's free agency. So, it's probably easier to get a good defensive lineman in this next off season, than draft one.

 

[BrassCowboy]

I have no problems with the Cowboys building their OL. I just think ...
1.) It's a little too late and
2.) and doubt they'll use the OL to pound the rock.

If the team had that philosophy from the beginning, i.e., when Tony Romo became the starter, we might have gone to a Super Bowl by now.
We've essentially wasted him in Dallas, as far as Super Bowl appearances are concerned.

I entirely agree with this assessment.... there were some great years with Romo that only if we had a good line might those years have ended GREAT

 

[ThreeandOut]

How quickly people forget the past draft. Martin was number 4 on their list of targets. If Barr, Donald or Shazier had been available, then a defensive player would have been the selection.

 

[CCBoy]

And the Rams got Donald.

 

[gimmesix]

No, we were not. We were targeting defense at that number with Sharif Lloyd. Jerry over-ruled at the last minute based on consulting Marinelli and Kiffen. There are articles out there on exactly this confusion during the draft day.

Have never seen any evidence to support that they ever wanted Floyd. He was high on their board, but they were looking at offensive linemen all the way.

Maybe I just missed the evidence, but all I ever saw was Dallas making excuses for why it didn't take him.

 

[reddyuta]

I think I'd let Martin play a year before proclaiming this the best Oline. And even then there would be plenty of debate.
Absolutely love that it should be a strength though.

no kidding,our depth is shaky and untested too.can we handle a starter going down in TC?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

amusing how some here still whine about taking O line players high; no coincidence that some of them were fine with Costa and Livings and the rest of those jags.

Who exactly was whining?

 

[Idgit]

Who exactly was whining?

That was an awkward and off-based jab at me, I think. Though I pretty clearly distinguished between which OL positions I was talking about being expensive for first round picks.

I did think we should have waited to see Livings play in Dallas before throwing collective fits, and said many times that we were fortunate to be getting starting snaps from an UDFA in Costa, so that's probably what he's trying to passively reference.

 

[DFWJC]

Not sure that's true that they stick with their board. Wasn't Sharrif Floyd still available when the Cowboys were set to pick at #18 in 2013? He was their highest rated player (#5 on their board I think?), and instead they moved down and ended up with Frederick.

And if 2014 Johnny Manziel was on the board when the Cowboys drafted at #16, and he was their highest rated player at the time. Instead they drafted Martin.

They had a big disconnect between the new coaches and the scouts on Floyd and have said so many times. Embarrassing for them but at least they corrected it on draft day. So according to Kiffin and Marinelli , he was not BPA.

Manziel and Martin were in the same tier, so they violated nothing by taking Martin.