Grantland: The Cowboys have built the leagues best OL, but at what cost?

[Aggie87]

Know how many Aggies it takes to conduct brain surgery, neither does anyone else.

The specifics were related to a draft board and how they are used during a draft. So, if a kicker is rated before the 3rd round, and your team needs guards to function, you are saying that the kicker should then be drafted to comply with a points value on your draft board.

Hostile will love this one...

That's absolutely NOT what I'm saying. I'm not sure how you're twisting that in your brain.

Again - read the post I responded to, and then my post. I responded to the fact that we were drafting to our board. I stated that we simply weren't (NOT whether we should be or shouldn't be). I never said anything about whether drafting to a board is smart or not.

Please try to understand what it is you're responding to.

 

[CrownCowboy]

What the writer fails to realize is that although Tyron was clearly the target in 2011, the Frederick and Martin picks were most probably fall back positions, but very, very good ones.

You have to take what comes to you in the draft, and the Cowboys have done a very good job sticking with their board and drafting the best available player, which in 2013 and 2014 meant drafting Frederick and Martin.

It appears to me to be nitpicking on the highest order to complain about spending premium picks in the trenches. Of all the things to criticize the Cowboys for, this is not one of them.

I agree. You certainly won't hear this fan complaining about using premium picks for players in the trenches.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Great offensive lines make a whole lot of warts and boo-boos go away.

Exactly. A great Oline is a QB's AND a defense's best friend. It's great for the defense because a great Oline should translate into a very good running game (depending on the play calling). That alone should keep the defense off the field much less than last year. Our defense can't give up yards and points if they're on the sideline.

 

[GusTheo]

I would really love to know where some of you guys get off saying stuff like Fredrick could've been had a round later? Why, because thats what the pundits (Who are often wrong) said so? All it takes is one team to take the guy you want then you lose out on the guy you want.

It's not enough that Dallas targeted a player and actually seems to have gotten a good one, but it's a problem because we took him too early? You guys are a joke. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Some of you guys need to back away from the keyboard and get some fresh air. Because if the Cowboys would've stayed where they were last year, and drafted someone else who didn't work out like Fredrick you'd be slamming the team.

The draft is a crapshoot, so be happy you end up with players that end up actually being players and not busts, and don't worry about what round you got them. No one knows what goes on inside these teams draft rooms besides the team themselves.

This board was rampant on how bad the OL was 3 years ago, now we're complaining that they've spent too many first rounders on it? Unreal.

And this article is piss poor IMO. The sack totals might not ever be good with Tony Romo running around back there? Has this guy watched the Cowboys at all? Romo has become a strict pocket passer. We've literally had people complain that he doesn't take off with space in front of him for an easy 6-7 yards and elects to throw the ball down field.

 

[waving monkey]

You're entirely missing the point.

The argument was that the Cowboys were sticking to their draft board. My take is that they weren't.

It has nothing to do with your opinion of Manziel or Floyd.

it was my observation that Sharrif Floyd was a disputed pick because the scouts were not brought up to speed
on the new profiles of players. That has changed.

 

[CCBoy]

That's absolutely NOT what I'm saying. I'm not sure how you're twisting that in your brain.

Again - read the post I responded to, and then my post. I responded to the fact that we were drafting to our board. I stated that we simply weren't (NOT whether we should be or shouldn't be). I never said anything about whether drafting to a board is smart or not.

Please try to understand what it is you're responding to.

Back when Darrell Royal was head coach of the University of Texas, the Aggies were having a hard time in the Southwest Conference. They had a losing record and their head coach, Gene Stallings.

The first game for the Aggies, was against SMU. Hayden Fry. He lead a potent Mustang group that had progressed from the time of Don Meredith and challenges of a National Championship team. Wanting to change directions for his Aggies, Gene Stallings collected himself in his office before the game, and said a humbled prayer for a victory. That day, the Aggies beat the Mustangs 14 to 10.

The next Saturday, A&M had a game against Texas Tech. They were coached by JT King and they played a tough Texas type of football.
Thinking that he was on something of a roll and being a touch superstitious, Gene Stallings went to his office before that away game, and prayed for a whole half of an hour for a victory. That Saturday, the Aggies were victorious by a score of 21 to 14.

The next game was a home game against the Rice Owls. They were headed by Bo Hagan. Rice had won the Bluebonnet and Sugar Bowls but a few years before. Gene knew that he had to make a commitment here. So prior to the game, he spent a whole hour in prayer.
The Aggies beat the Owls by a score of 24 to 14.

Up next on the schedule, were the Baylor Bears. That green and gold colored team was headed by John D. Bridgers. It was a game played in Waco. The Bears, having a Bowl victory in their recent past, was not considered an equal to the Aggies at this point. Gene spent a whole two hours on his knees. The Bears played a very tough defensive game that night, but the Aggies came away with a very contested and tough victory, 10 to 9.

The following week, were the TCU Horned Frogs. They were coached by Fred Taylor and his team was a scrappy bunch. The day before the game, Gene Stallings didn't desire to break his string...so he spent a full four hours in prayer. Well, that Saturday, the Aggies walked off the field with a 27 to 7 win.

The schedule was getting tough, and an away game to Fayetteville, Arkansas was up next. They had just won a National Championship a couple seasons before and were led by the infamous Frank Broyles. His Razorbacks had a long tradition of excellence and were extremely difficult to beat in Arkansas. Gene was getting a little apprehensive and summoned the entire student body, pep squad, and team together a day before leaving...and they spent the entire school day in prayer at the gymnasium. That game opened on a high note, and the opening kickoff was run back all the way by an Aggie. That game entered a groove, and the Aggies departed in their buses with a 27 to 21 victory.

Fate had it in it's hands now...as the next game was a home game at Austin against the University of Texas. They were headed by the always capable Darrell Royals. Texas had lost a shoot out against Arkansas the previous year, and in it dropped out of the National Championship picture. The Longhorns were ready for a confrontation. Sensing all on the line, Gene Stallings summoned the entire city of Valley Station to support their team in prayer. The team, Gene, and residents all committed and kept up a vigil for the entire work week.

On the day of the game, it was a bit overcast and when Gene Stallings walked out onto the field, he looked up into the sky and winked.

The opening kick of, Texas ran back the kick off and took a 7-0 lead. By halftime, the Longhorns were up 21-7. As the final gun went off, Texas was supporting a 45-10 victory. Dejected, Gene Stallings looked up into darkened skys and whispered: 'Why?'

The skys opened up and a huge hand with fore and little fingers extended came down with a booming voice, 'Hook 'em Horns!'


Now, you were saying about understanding again?

 

[casmith07]

I think that the cost has been minimal. We have built with affordable free agents, an UDFA, and draft picks. Every starter on the line is now a Cowboys-only acquired player.

We have built the OL at the right cost. We are working on the DL now. I like the direction.

 

[Ashwynn]

I have no problems with the Cowboys building their OL. I just think ...
1.) It's a little too late and
2.) and doubt they'll use the OL to pound the rock.

If the team had that philosophy from the beginning, i.e., when Tony Romo became the starter, we might have gone to a Super Bowl by now.
We've essentially wasted him in Dallas, as far as Super Bowl appearances are concerned.

I think you summed up my thoughts perfectly. But better late than never and Romos still a top 5 QB with experienced WRs and RBs, an Improved Oline, Hopefully a vastly improved Defense. It can only get better from here on out. Only bone headed play calling and time management can derail fron a winning season.

 

[jobberone]

You mean 4-7. Usually most 1-3 rounders are supposed to be immediate contributors if not starters.

Others including myself have shown that is not true although we're speaking in generalities and not specific players on specific teams. Not quite 60% of first rounders are still around year 3 and contributing and a little more than 50% chance of 2nd rounders. You have 1/3 chance of drafting a bust in the first round over the life of that first contract much less expect starters 1-3 right away.

 

[LatinMind]

I cant wait to hopefully see Martin playing RT. Alot of people talk about Martin not being ideal in size. But these athletic smaller tackles seem to be doing good in the NFL. Pugh from the giants was solid. With teams not really making running the ball a priority now these days these athletic tackles are going to be more of the norm.

2015 starting OL

LT Tyron Smith
LG Ron Leary
C Travis Fredrick
RG Bernadeau Mackenzey
RT Zack Martin

I like it

 

[jrumann59]

Others including myself have shown that is not true although we're speaking in generalities and not specific players on specific teams. Not quite 60% of first rounders are still around year 3 and contributing and a little more than 50% chance of 2nd rounders. You have 1/3 chance of drafting a bust in the first round over the life of that first contract much less expect starters 1-3 right away.

You have a better chance with rds 1-3. The reason why 4-7 seem better odds there are usallu more picks in those rounds when you add in compensatory picks, and the bar is not that high. Throw in the talent levels at 4-7 are closer together. Also picks are more likely to fall due to "character" or injury issues.

 

[Risen Star]

I think I'd let Martin play a year before proclaiming this the best Oline. And even then there would be plenty of debate.
Absolutely love that it should be a strength though.

It's the strength of the team now. Which is all I worry about. Let the pundits argue about which is best. All I know is I don't think any other team has three better young building blocks than Smith, Frederick and Martin.

I haven't even read this article. What's the angle? That rebuilding this line caused our defense to be this bad? That's complete and total nonsense if that's the case.

 

[jobberone]

You have a better chance with rds 1-3. The reason why 4-7 seem better odds there are usallu more picks in those rounds when you add in compensatory picks, and the bar is not that high. Throw in the talent levels at 4-7 are closer together. Also picks are more likely to fall due to "character" or injury issues.

I don't think that's true either. Your best chances are in rd 1 and fall off accordingly thru 7. Again we're talking generalities.

There are other graphs and charts which show starters per round. They are easy to google. But you can see about a 20% success rate for late rd picks. I don't know the stats for UDFAs. This is not the same graph or numbers as looking at success rates per rd per year.

 

[jobberone]

I wish we wouldn't annoint Fred much less Martin. I think they will be good but I'd like to see more of Fred and even one play from Martin.

 

[BigStar]

Not sure that's true that they stick with their board. Wasn't Sharrif Floyd still available when the Cowboys were set to pick at #18 in 2013? He was their highest rated player (#5 on their board I think?), and instead they moved down and ended up with Frederick.

And if 2014 Johnny Manziel was on the board when the Cowboys drafted at #16, and he was their highest rated player at the time. Instead they drafted Martin.

BPA according to need. That is what really goes on during the draft, esp in the 1st round. Teams are basically using 1st round selections as a way of bypassing the uncertainty and expense of Free Agency. Every year teams are selecting 1st round picks based off of need. DAL missed on their first need picks with Barr/Donald/Shazier so they settled for another need in the OL. We all knew no WRs/CBs/RBs/TEs were getting snatched regardless of talent. Maybe not the TE...What is confusing is DAL seems to construct their draft board to include these players without ever having the intention of taking them like with Floyd and Manziel.

 

[jday]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/t...leagues-best-offensive-line-but-at-what-cost/

I'm pretty sure there was at least 4 defensive players that the Cowboys would have taken had they not already been off the board prior to their pick this past draft. They took the BPA...so now we're supposed to draft for need? I really can't keep up with how many times people change their minds on the best draft strategy, but I'm going to take a guess that it is the opposite of whatever the Cowboys did in the previous draft.

 

[jrumann59]

BPA according to need. That is what really goes on during the draft, esp in the 1st round. Teams are basically using 1st round selections as a way of bypassing the uncertainty and expense of Free Agency. Every year teams are selecting 1st round picks based off of need. DAL missed on their first need picks with Barr/Donald/Shazier so they settled for another need in the OL. We all knew no WRs/CBs/RBs/TEs were getting snatched regardless of talent. Maybe not the TE...What is confusing is DAL seems to construct their draft board to include these players without ever having the intention of taking them like with Floyd and Manziel.

I think they do that for trade value.

 

[burmafrd]

BPA according to need. That is what really goes on during the draft, esp in the 1st round. Teams are basically using 1st round selections as a way of bypassing the uncertainty and expense of Free Agency. Every year teams are selecting 1st round picks based off of need. DAL missed on their first need picks with Barr/Donald/Shazier so they settled for another need in the OL. We all knew no WRs/CBs/RBs/TEs were getting snatched regardless of talent. Maybe not the TE...What is confusing is DAL seems to construct their draft board to include these players without ever having the intention of taking them like with Floyd and Manziel.

the Only GM I ever heard of that really went BPA in the first round was Matt Millen. Case closed.

 

[xwalker]

BPA according to need. That is what really goes on during the draft, esp in the 1st round. Teams are basically using 1st round selections as a way of bypassing the uncertainty and expense of Free Agency. Every year teams are selecting 1st round picks based off of need. DAL missed on their first need picks with Barr/Donald/Shazier so they settled for another need in the OL. We all knew no WRs/CBs/RBs/TEs were getting snatched regardless of talent. Maybe not the TE...What is confusing is DAL seems to construct their draft board to include these players without ever having the intention of taking them like with Floyd and Manziel.

The Cowboys like to create a pure talent board without building in need and other issues. The idea being that if they build need into the board, then need will also affect the decision makers at the time of the draft and therefore need will be a 2x influence on the pick.

The problem with Floyd was a disconnect between the scouts and coaches. In 2013 and some prior years the board was created by Tom Ciskowski. It appears that the Floyd issue got him demoted and Will McClay took over the board in 2014. If you've ever seen an interview with those two guys, it's easy to see why McClay would be better at interacting with coaches and management than Ciskowski.

 

[BigStar]

I think they do that for trade value.

That does make sense, good point.