Greg Ellis, a T.O. apologist? Is this why it's time to move on?

[Hostile]

Just curious, anyone can answer this.

I hear a lot of this "keep your mouth shut" stuff going on. At what point are you supposed to stand up for what you believe and speak your mind about matters that seriously concern you?

First of all I have no idea if you are talking about players or fans. Your questions really aren't clear.

Players should not talk negative against the team. Don't believe me, look up the comments by Randy White and Cliff Harris about their support of Owens being gone. Look up the recent comments of Michael Irvin about the importance of chemistry.

Players should not take issues to the media. They should keep it in house.

Especially don't talk about money to the media. Never give off the perception that you play the game only for the paycheck. Ware isn't demanding to be the highest paid Defensive player. He's patiently waiting for his new contract details to be worked out. he didn't skip the OTA's.

At all times act like a professional.

I'll surely kiss butt if it puts more money in my pocket, sort of selling your soul to the devil, but outside of that, I just think you need to speak your mind and put things out there to debate.

This is what makes me think you are talking about fans not the players or the team. Debates are for forums.

In Ellis' case, everyone was quick to bash Ellis when he wanted out a few years ago when Parcells' installed the 3-4. Why shouldn't he complain about being moved?

Because he was still in the team plans and he took the complaints outside the locker room. That is wrong. The Green Bay Packers, Denver Broncos, and Kansas City Chiefs are all switching to the 3-4 this year. Which of their players who are switching positions are complaining to the media? That's right none of them.

A couple of years ago the Lions drafted Drew Stanton in the 2nd round to be their QB of the future. Where is Drew Stanton complaining about the Lions taking Matthew Stafford? That's right he isn't.

Example: How about we take Ware, make him an ILB. How do you think he would respond, how about make Witten a full back, Felix a tight end?

This again makes me think you are talking about fans not the team. None of these things have a remote possibility of happening and sound more like nonsense than anything else. Especially Ware and Witten who are All pros at their positions. Ellis was never an All Pro. Felix doesn't have a TE body. All of this is just throwing crap against the wall and seeing what will stick.

Answer...nothing.

He has a right to not want to except that position, and he was too nice to pull a Terrell Owens and act crazy enough to get cut, but he, like everyone would be, was upset and simply wanted to go somewhere where he could do what he does.

No he doesn't have a right to take his upset act to the media. That is nonsense.

We didn't bother to look at things from his perspective, we simply hate when someone complains "although we do it" and we want him out.

Actually we all looked at it from his perspective. Every single one of us. We see a guy making millions, still being a starter, and still being told he was in the team plans.

Question for you. Was he ever a Pro Bowl caliber player at DE? Yet he made the Pro Bowl in 2007 at OLB. Maybe, just maybe Parcells isn't so dumb, but Greg is.

I'm almost certain I won't get a reasonable response on this, I'm fully prepared for the, you're an idiot, you're a troll and you're a clown. Anything to get out of a true debate, but that's cool. The question is out there.

Since you solely get to decide what you consider reasonable who knows. Having seen your act for the last few months and grown extremely tired of it I will assume a "reasonable answer" means any that agrees with you. Yeah, well I don't think you have a point or even get it.

I therefore humbly submit my unreasonable response that is entirely football driven and endorsed by long set standards of football etiquette and proper decorum. Things have been the way I described for decades because no player is bigger than the team and those who think they are generally end up being pariahs to right thinking fans.

 

[BIGDen]

I'll surely kiss butt if it puts more money in my pocket, sort of selling your soul to the devil...

BS!!! You already sold your soul to the devil! You're the one who gave up Jesus to the Romans!

:

 

[dcfanatic]

Just curious, anyone can answer this.

I hear a lot of this "keep your mouth shut" stuff going on. At what point are you supposed to stand up for what you believe and speak your mind about matters that seriously concern you?

I'll surely kiss butt if it puts more money in my pocket, sort of selling your soul to the devil, but outside of that, I just think you need to speak your mind and put things out there to debate.

In Ellis' case, everyone was quick to bash Ellis when he wanted out a few years ago when Parcells' installed the 3-4. Why shouldn't he complain about being moved?

Example: How about we take Ware, make him an ILB. How do you think he would respond, how about make Witten a full back, Felix a tight end?

He has a right to not want to except that position, and he was too nice to pull a Terrell Owens and act crazy enough to get cut, but he, like everyone would be, was upset and simply wanted to go somewhere where he could do what he does.

We didn't bother to look at things from his perspective, we simply hate when someone complains "although we do it" and we want him out.

I'm almost certain I won't get a reasonable response on this, I'm fully prepared for the, you're an idiot, you're a troll and you're a clown. Anything to get out of a true debate, but that's cool. The question is out there.

There is no I in the word team.

Good enough explanation?

 

[Alexander]

Ellis reminds me of a member of a Union that feels the entire world is against them, and any time something "mean" happens to other players (employees) he feels the need to protect everyone from the big bad corporate machine.

Problem is, most Joe Blo's make 1/100th of what NFL players make and are not quite that simpathetic, pro-union or anti-management or whatever.

After awhile it just gets to be too much, and the "fears" become self-fullfilling!

I think Ellis played hard on the field, etc, he was never a problem off the field, but he just wasn't the winning leader this team could have used, and had he been he would have been earning the money he wanted and had the regard he craved in the first place.

Just my opinion. Guy worked his arse off coming back from an achilles tear and he switched positions, etc, but always being negative can be pretty draining for people to be around. Ellis was a bit of a Charlie Brown, or Debbie Downer, no doubt about it, and he might have uttered his last "sigh" in Dallas!

LarryCanadian

This is exactly why Ellis needs to go.

He has always been anti-management. He never trusted Coach Parcells' message and his bitterness at being "underpaid" every year was never-ending until Jones finally caved in to his demands. That isn't leadership. He just happens to be the one who ingratiated himself just enough to get by with the boss, but talked about him when his back was turned.

If Owens was a cancer, he was the obvious lump that needed to be excised. Ellis is the little malignancy that can't be detected without an X-Ray.

 

[Alexander]

Have you ever considered the possibility that he may WANT out? He's been wanting out for years, they refuse to cut or trade him.

Believe me, if he "wanted out" he would have been out.

He always wanted more money and he wanted things HIS way. That's the way it has always been with this player.

Even for years with people on here telling me it wasn't about the cash, it always was. Now, all this aging veteran has is his ego and he'll even defend that to the media.

For you comment on bosses and frankness. You can't compare the NFL players jobs to some meaningless store clerk or some kiss-butt office worker.

No, the support of your management has to be even stronger because teamwork is even more important. If you have clashing between the help and management at any level, that's destructive. The team has to come first. The organization has to come first. When it turns to the individual, everyone loses.

About the attitude thing - if a guy can PLAY, let me say it again. If a guy can PLAY, he can typically say what he wants "outside of TO" and teams will put up with it (case/point/ ocho cinco)

Define "can play". Elite talent should get the T.O. treatment, not just the "pretty good". Talent like Greg Ellis is and always has been doesn't.

 

[LarryCanadian]

Thanks for your post Judas (and others, but his was directed at my post, and he is obviously trying to hold back emotions).

My question is, why get so emotionally protective about the Ellis situation? Do you play team sports at all? Would he inspire you to play to win and because you love a game? I sure as heck feel that you CAN compare an NFL athlete to a regular joe employee. I'll explain why I feel that way. If someone is willing to pay me $6 Million dollars per year to do something that I love to do and that I actually go do for free and play in a commited and invested manner, I think your attitude needs to change. You either realize how fortunate you are, and what a fantastic situation are in, and RESPECT those around you trying to WIN, and what that takes, or you keep quiet at the very least.

I think it shows a lack of maturity and intelligence to sabotage your own job, the environment of your team, and shows a disrespect to an organization that has treated you with massive respect over the years (from drafting you 8th overall, based on CHARACTER, instead of a guy like Randy Moss, to renegotiating your contract and taking the time to meet with you regularly to sooth your paranoia about your ability and playing time etc). That is why I say at some point you shut up, or risk being seen as a petulant whiner, and NOT a leader. That is my point. Ellis SHOULD be a POSITIVE leader and WINNER, but he'd rather complain.

If "he wants out" then that shows that he doesn't want to be a winner anyway. Ellis would rather be the martyr player on a crappy team, than a role player on a winning team, and his contract is priority one. At least that is how he comes across. Fine, that is his right, and it is the right of paying/watching "fans" and coaches/managers to say this guy no longer brings enough to the table to offset his negatives.

I do think people should stand up for what they believe in, absolutely, so we agree there. How you present yourself, and the intelligence of what you say (no matter what your opinion - it's like learning to write an essay in highschool/university - presentation and facts are important, so is rationality) goes a long way toward how you are perceived.

There is actually an interesting John Grisham book called "Playing for Pizza" about football guys in Italy. It's a heck of a read, and Ellis should invest $10 of his millions, buy it and read it, and maybe he'd learn how well he has done for himself, and how much the Cowboys and NFL has done for him over the ELEVEN seasons he has played. The book might be fiction, but it is accurate in the way it portrays athletes that aren't spoiled and love a game.

What Ellis says much of the time is an insult to 40 year old weekend athletes all over the world, let alone the peewee kids I coach and tell to hustle each week because they should love the sport and because challenging themselves is for their benefit.

I'll give you an example. My brother played for Canada in the Junior World cup in France many years ago (under 19). These guys work hard, have camps, and knock the crap out of each other. Rugby is huge in the rest of the world, but not as big in US or Canada where we have other sports that are far more poplular. Because of this, the Canadian players had to PAY there own way to represent their country in this tournament. Even at this level, without any income for playing, with no real "celebrity" status, my brother would NEVER act like "the writing is on the wall" because they brought along a younger player who could also play his position. None of the players on the team would pipe off to a newspaper that maybe 2 or 3 players on the team were what we call "carded" athletes and were given a $1000/month subsidy by our federal government to subsidize their training (my brother wasn't one of them). Anyone doing that would have been LAUGHED out of the locker room by their own peers, let alone the coaches etc. You play because you love the game, and want to win, or achieve something. You play for your teammates. That is chemistry and leadership, at least in my opinion.

Does that make more sense to you?

LarryCanadian

 

[Bleu Star]

First it starts with the lame twitter discovery... Now it grows to three TO threads.. How many more threads before the wadded undie project sees completion?

ZZZzzz

 

[Arch Stanton]

First it starts with the lame twitter discovery... Now it grows to three TO threads.. How many more threads before the wadded undie project sees completion?

ZZZzzz

With that sig? Any thread in which you post.

 

[Hostile]

With that sig? Any thread in which you post.

He will NEVER grasp that he is part of the problem just like he couldn't grasp that TO was.

 

[Bleu Star]

With that sig? Any thread in which you post.

I don't plan on leaving it up long.

 

[Hostile]

I don't plan on leaving it up long.

It has already been up too long given your protests recently over how people have miscast you.

Have they? All evidence to the contrary courtesy of your own choices.

 

[Bleu Star]

It has already been up too long given your protests recently over how people have miscast you.

Have they? All evidence to the contrary courtesy of your own choices.

I'm really tired of the TO threads. Both sides of the TO fence had plenty of fun while he was here and during the initial weeks following his departure. I took some medicine and moved on. The board moved on. The board was a much better place having flushed the TO threads down the chute. Then someone that sits in front of a PC for a little too long daily finds a twitter line and, in his mind, strikes gold. It seems like he struck nickle to me but to each his/her own. Enjoy the moderation as the adoration and disgust of a player that no longer wears our revered uniform resurfaces again. Thank your buddy for that & have a wonderful day.

 

[Hostile]

I'm really tired of the TO threads. Both sides of the TO fence had plenty of fun while he was here and during the initial weeks following his departure. I took some medicine and moved on. The board moved on. The board was a much better place having flushed the TO threads down the chute. Then someone that sits in front of a PC for a little too long daily finds a twitter line and, in his mind, strikes gold. It seems like he struck nickle to me but to each his/her own. Enjoy the moderation as the adoration and disgust of a player that no longer wears our revered uniform resurfaces again. Thank your buddy for that & have a wonderful day.

Ah, so all of this is actually a protest that TO related threads are not being moved to teh NFL Zone like the hundreds of them did when his release took over the forum.

Gotcha.

 

[DallasEast]

First it starts with the lame twitter discovery... Now it grows to three TO threads.. How many more threads before the wadded undie project sees completion?

ZZZzzz

I don't plan on leaving it up long.

I'm really tired of the TO threads. Both sides of the TO fence had plenty of fun while he was here and during the initial weeks following his departure. I took some medicine and moved on. The board moved on. The board was a much better place having flushed the TO threads down the chute. Then someone that sits in front of a PC for a little too long daily finds a twitter line and, in his mind, strikes gold. It seems like he struck nickle to me but to each his/her own. Enjoy the moderation as the adoration and disgust of a player that no longer wears our revered uniform resurfaces again. Thank your buddy for that & have a wonderful day.

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/OwensLoverSig.jpg​

.​

 

[Clove]

My question is, why get so emotionally protective about the Ellis situation? Do you play team sports at all?

For your information, I've played team sports all of my life, including football at several levels. Next,I could care less about Ellis, I'm trying to be nice to people in general, so when I say I'm trying to say it as tactful as possibly, I'm trying not to be rude.

I sure as heck feel that you CAN compare an NFL athlete to a regular joe employee. I'll explain why I feel that way. If someone is willing to pay me $6 Million dollars per year to do something that I love to do and that I actually go do for free and play in a commited and invested manner

If you're making 6 mill, that doesn't qualify as a typical job.

And while i'm on the subject, NFL players have probably a 10 year window to make all they can make. The lions ruined Barry Sanders who is the greatest runner to touch a football field, and would have shattered Emmitt Smith's record by a mile had he been more selfish.

No one bothered to care that the Lions ruined a guy, but had it been Owens, no way would the Lions have ruined his career because rather the fans like him or not, he's not going to get mowed over by owner ship when fans come to see players, NOT OWNERS.

If "he wants out" then that shows that he doesn't want to be a winner anyway. Ellis would rather be the martyr player on a crappy team, than a role player on a winning team, and his contract is priority one.

What winning team are you referring too? The Cowboys haven't done much in over a decade, so he'd be in good shape to find a more competitive franchise. "RESPECTFULLY"

I do think people should stand up for what they believe in, absolutely, so we agree there. How you present yourself, and the intelligence of what you say (no matter what your opinion - it's like learning to write an essay in highschool/university - presentation and facts are important, so is rationality) goes a long way toward how you are perceived.

So tell me what Ellis has said that is so horrible? Almost as if we're talking about some spelling bee competition where feelings are hurt easily, not only do I think TO didn't say things that were that horrible, I don't think Ellis has said anything either.

One person makes an opinion and everyone latches on to it. Ellis didn't like his role, AND? Is it okay to say, "I don't like my role". Ellis' could've demanded a trade, or gone half speed to force Jerry's hand but he didn't do it.

I really don't feel like going through and answering everything you said, but bottom line is, Ellis doesn't want to be here, and I dont' blame him. Even fans think he's just an average OLB, but they do agree that he's an above average DE.

Once again, it seems like everything Jones does is alright with everyone, Lord knows he doesn't make mistakes.

"respectfully"

 

[windward]

Barry "Take me out in short yardage situations" Sanders is not the greatest runner to ever touch the field.

 

[28 Joker]

Greg Ellis gave an interview on the radio a while back.

He blamed the Cowboys' December struggles on two things:

1. Player Contracts
2. Getting Players Ready for Next Year (???) Evaluating Talent

Hmm. I guess Greg forgot that pitiful missed or sorry excuse for a tackle on Amonte Toomer's 52 yard TD in the Divisional playoff game or his pension for opening up huge rushing lanes, so Brian Westbrook can settle for the triple in a 4 point December game. (See the Giants exploit him the same way this year at NY.)

Leave it to Greg Ellis to name money as a reason for failure. Only he could come up with that one. Nevermind, that he's a person on the team that complained about his contract, a contract that he signed in good faith. If it was a bad deal, that's his fault. Ellis is the guy that didn't show up to training camp and put money before the team.

What players were getting "ready" for "next year"? He seems to be pointing the finger at Anthony Spencer. Is he trying to tell us that playing Anthony Spencer killed the Cowboys in January of 2007. Have to love that self inflated ego. Ellis needs to go back at watch Amonte Toomer run 52 yards after he missed tackling him.

This is the same guy who acted like a little spoiled brat when Anthony Spencer was getting reps ahead of him last May, and Phillips threw Spencer some praise about his speed and intelligence during OTAs. What did Ellis do? He pouted and left the facility and missed two days of practice.

Ellis complained about dropping in coverage in the media. He quotes Bill Cohwer to back him up and undermines Wade Phillips in the process. Ellis tells us that other players tell him that he should be playing, "why is he dropping in coverage". What a great leader and example.

His negative, toxic, and selfish attutude is terrible on a young team. He's no leader. He's part of the problem, and I've been calling for him to get booted for a quite some time. I was calling for Anthony Spencer to start before the season, because I knew the sooner Ellis was out of Dallas, the better off the Cowboys would be. Spencer had him beat but got hurt. The entire team got hurt.

Furthermore, in this interview, Greg Ellis places the blame on coaches for not using players correctly. He says that players were "distracted" or affected because of the way they were used. Hmm.. It sounds like Ellis is talking about himself here. He talks about "players not being used together". Does this guy think he's the coach? Hmm. Sounds like Greg really thinks highly of himself. Could he be talking about being on the field with Ware all the time?

This is a guy that wouldn't even come out of the game when he was told to do so and cost the Cowboys a timeout.

This is a guy that ran to Jerry Jones, allegedly, to complain about the way he was being used. Great leader. Great example for young players on your team.

Greg Ellis looks out for Greg Ellis. He still thinks he's the double digit sack guy (2007; the only double digit sack year that he ever had) even though his play declined significantly or fell of the table in 2009. Ellis got trucked in run defense or gashed after rushing up field too far. He tallied 2 sacks in week 2 and had one sack (the Rams) over an 8 game stretch. He picked on the Giants' backup RT to record 2 of his final 5 sacks.

When you look at his declining play, his poor, negative attitude, his selfish disposition, and his huge salary, dumping this him shouldn't even be up for debate. I would have kicked his butt out the door faster.

He can't be gone fast enough.

He will be one more overrated, malcontent, or selfish player kicked out the door.

It's players like him that have held the Cowboys back.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Greg Ellis gave an interview on the radio a while back.

He blamed the Cowboys' December struggles on two things:

1. Player Contracts
2. Getting Players Ready for Next Year (???) Evaluating Talent

Hmm. I guess Greg forgot that pitiful missed or sorry excuse for a tackle on Amonte Toomer's 52 yard TD in the Divisional playoff game or his pension for opening up huge rushing lanes, so Brian Westbrook can settle for the triple in a 4 point December game. (See the Giants exploit him on the way this year at NY.)

Leave it to Greg Ellis to name money as a reason for failure. Only he could come up with that one. Nevermind, that he's a person on the team that complained about his contract, a contract that he signed in good faith. If it was a bad deal, that's his fault.

What players were getting "ready" for "next year"? He seems to be pointing the finger at Anthony Spencer. Is he trying to tell us that playing Anthony Spencer killed the Cowboys in January of 2007. Have to love that self inflated ego. Ellis needs to go back at watch Amonte Toomer run 52 yards after he missed tacking him.

This is the same guy who acted like a little spoiled brat when Anthony Spencer was getting reps ahead of him last May, and Phillips threw Spencer some praise about his speed and intelligence during OTAs. What did Ellis do? He pouted and left the facility and missed two days of practice.

Ellis complained about dropping in coverage in the media. He quotes Bill Cohwer to back him up and undermines Wade Phillips in the process. Ellis tells us that other players tell him that he should be playing, "why is he dropping in coverage". What a great leader and example.

His negative, toxic, and selfish attutude is terrible on a young team. He's no leader. He's part of the problem, and I've been calling for him to get booted for a quite some time. I was calling for Anthony Spencer to start before the season, because I knew the sooner Ellis was out of Dallas, the better off the Cowboys would be. Spencer had him beat but got hurt. The entire team got hurt.

Furthermore, in this interview, Greg Ellis places the blame on coaches for not using players correctly. He says that players were "distracted" or affected because of the way they were used. Hmm.. It sounds like Ellis is talking about himself here. He talks about "players not being used together". Does this guy think he's the coach? Hmm. Sounds like Greg really thinks highly of himself. Could he be talking about being on the field with Ware all the time?

This is a guy that wouldn't even come out of the game when he was told to do so and cost the Cowboys a timeout.

This is a guy that ran to Jerry Jones, allegedly, to complain about the way he was being used. Great leader. Great example for young players on your team.

Greg Ellis looks out for Greg Ellis. He still thinks he's the double digit sack guy (2007; the only double digit sack year that he ever had) even though his play declined significantly or fell of the table in 2009.

He can't be gone fast enough.

He will be one more overrated, malcontent, or selfish player kicked out the door.

It's players like him that have held the Cowboys back.

:clap2:

 

[Alexander]

Greg Ellis gave an interview on the radio a while back.

He blamed the Cowboys' December struggles on two things:

1. Player Contracts
2. Getting Players Ready for Next Year (???) Evaluating Talent

Hmm. I guess Greg forgot that pitiful missed or sorry excuse for a tackle on Amonte Toomer's 52 yard TD in the Divisional playoff game or his pension for opening up huge rushing lanes, so Brian Westbrook can settle for the triple in a 4 point December game. (See the Giants exploit him the same way this year at NY.)

Leave it to Greg Ellis to name money as a reason for failure. Only he could come up with that one. Nevermind, that he's a person on the team that complained about his contract, a contract that he signed in good faith. If it was a bad deal, that's his fault. Ellis is the guy that didn't show up to training camp and put money before the team.

What players were getting "ready" for "next year"? He seems to be pointing the finger at Anthony Spencer. Is he trying to tell us that playing Anthony Spencer killed the Cowboys in January of 2007. Have to love that self inflated ego. Ellis needs to go back at watch Amonte Toomer run 52 yards after he missed tackling him.

This is the same guy who acted like a little spoiled brat when Anthony Spencer was getting reps ahead of him last May, and Phillips threw Spencer some praise about his speed and intelligence during OTAs. What did Ellis do? He pouted and left the facility and missed two days of practice.

Ellis complained about dropping in coverage in the media. He quotes Bill Cohwer to back him up and undermines Wade Phillips in the process. Ellis tells us that other players tell him that he should be playing, "why is he dropping in coverage". What a great leader and example.

His negative, toxic, and selfish attutude is terrible on a young team. He's no leader. He's part of the problem, and I've been calling for him to get booted for a quite some time. I was calling for Anthony Spencer to start before the season, because I knew the sooner Ellis was out of Dallas, the better off the Cowboys would be. Spencer had him beat but got hurt. The entire team got hurt.

Furthermore, in this interview, Greg Ellis places the blame on coaches for not using players correctly. He says that players were "distracted" or affected because of the way they were used. Hmm.. It sounds like Ellis is talking about himself here. He talks about "players not being used together". Does this guy think he's the coach? Hmm. Sounds like Greg really thinks highly of himself. Could he be talking about being on the field with Ware all the time?

This is a guy that wouldn't even come out of the game when he was told to do so and cost the Cowboys a timeout.

This is a guy that ran to Jerry Jones, allegedly, to complain about the way he was being used. Great leader. Great example for young players on your team.

Greg Ellis looks out for Greg Ellis. He still thinks he's the double digit sack guy (2007; the only double digit sack year that he ever had) even though his play declined significantly or fell of the table in 2009. Ellis got trucked in run defense or gashed after rushing up field too far. He tallied 2 sacks in week 2 and had one sack (the Rams) over an 8 game stretch. He picked on the Giants' backup RT to record 2 of his final 5 sacks.

When you look at his declining play, his poor, negative attitude, his selfish disposition, and his huge salary, dumping this him shouldn't even be up for debate. I would have kicked his butt out the door faster.

He can't be gone fast enough.

He will be one more overrated, malcontent, or selfish player kicked out the door.

It's players like him that have held the Cowboys back.

A year ago, this post would have been met with a board beatdown.

Now, it barely registers.

Amazing what the truth can do and how people behave when they finally get it.

 

[Hostile]

A year ago, this post would have been met with a board beatdown.

Now, it barely registers.

Amazing what the truth can do and how people behave when they finally get it.

Barely registers? It's 19 minutes old for crying out loud.

Nice post 41gy#. Really nice post.