Grizz: The Phillps 34 Playbook

AtlCB

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superpunk

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theogt;1385936 said:
So basically your argument is this: You have evidence that they switched to the 46 in 2005, but I have no evidence that they switched to the 3-4 in 2006.

Sorry, but that don't fly.

All the evidence you need is to watch the games. You'll see that it's not a 46 at all -- that is, if you understand what the 46 is.

The trouble is, not only do you not have any concept of what the 46 is, you appear to not even want to know. Teams changing their base defense is a big deal. Especially with the fit Lewis threw about being in the 3-4 in the first place.

But whatever - you know more about what defense the Ravens were running than either Rex Ryan or Ray Lewis. Either that or they ONLY called you to inform you that they were switching schemes, and then continued to run the 46 anyway.

Either way there's no sense talking about it with you. You have no evidence to back anything up, there are mountains of evidence to the contrary, and yet it's "I know what a 46 is, and noone else understands that the Ravens run a 3-4. Not even Rex Ryan."

Ok.... /shrugs/
 

theogt

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superpunk;1385944 said:
The trouble is, not only do you not have any concept of what the 46 is, you appear to not even want to know. Teams changing their base defense is a big deal. Especially with the fit Lewis threw about being in the 3-4 in the first place.

But whatever - you know more about what defense the Ravens were running than either Rex Ryan or Ray Lewis. Either that or they ONLY called you to inform you that they were switching schemes, and then continued to run the 46 anyway.

Either way there's no sense talking about it with you. You have no evidence to back anything up, there are mountains of evidence to the contrary, and yet it's "I know what a 46 is, and noone else understands that the Ravens run a 3-4. Not even Rex Ryan."

Ok.... /shrugs/
Here's what this all boils down to. Either (1) you don't know what the 46 is, (2) you know what it is and just didn't watch the games, or (3) you're just flaming for the sake of flame.

They didn't run the 46 in 2006. You've shown absolutely no evidence that they did. If fact, the most direct evidence (video of the actual games) shows that they didn't.

Now, I will say that their 3-4 looks little like the Parcells 3-4 so if that's what you're judging it against, you may be getting confused.
 

superpunk

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theogt;1385949 said:
Here's what this all boils down to. Either (1) you don't know what the 46 is, (2) you know what it is and just didn't watch the games, or (3) you're just flaming for the sake of flame.

They didn't run the 46 in 2006. You've shown absolutely no evidence that they did. If fact, the most direct evidence (video of the actual games) shows that they didn't.

Now, I will say that their 3-4 looks little like the Parcells 3-4 so if that's what you're judging it against, you may be getting confused.

So stubborn, so wrong, and with so little evidence. On this one, you're just out to lunch.
 

superpunk

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Nevermind. I shouldn't have gotten back involved. No amount of evidence will do on this one. :rolleyes:
 

theogt

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superpunk;1385951 said:
How many down linemen are there in a 46?

How many players along the line of scrimmage?

This information is not difficult to find.

Two defensive ends, one nose tackle, two LB, and a rush end line up on the LOS. Behind them are a MLB and a SS. It fits the depth chart.
In a 46 there are 4 down linemen and typically a 5th defender (a LB) on the LOS.
 

theogt

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superpunk;1385953 said:
So stubborn, so wrong, and with so little evidence. On this one, you're just out to lunch.
Evidence on my side: Every website talking about the 46. All of the game tape on the 2006 Baltimore Ravens.

Evidence on your side: A quote from Rex Ryan about the 2005 Baltimore Ravens.

Yeah, it really looks like I'm overmatched here. :rolleyes:
 

theogt

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If this doesn't settle it, I don't know what could. Page from Rex Ryan's book:

2zdsrrb.jpg
 

superpunk

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theogt;1385974 said:
If this doesn't settle it, I don't know what could. Page from Rex Ryan's book:

2zdsrrb.jpg
How remarkably similar to the defense I described. They used different named for the three down linemen, and the rush end is called the right end, but lo and behold, there's two LBs on one side of the LOS, three down linemen, and a rush end.

Shocking stuff.
 

theogt

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superpunk;1385980 said:
How remarkably similar to the defense I described. They used different named for the three down linemen, and the rush end is called the right end, but lo and behold, there's two LBs on one side of the LOS, three down linemen, and a rush end.

Shocking stuff.
The significant difference is that there are 4 down linemen in addition to the 2 linebackers on the one side. You stated that there are 3 down linemen, which is why you say that people confuse it with the 3-4. Since there are more then 3 down linemen it shouldn't be that hard to distinguish it from the 3-4.
 

AtlCB

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superpunk;1385951 said:
How many down linemen are there in a 46?
A 46 is a variation of the 4-3: four down linemen, three linebackers, four defensive backs. The Ravens ran a base 4-3 in 2005.

How many players along the line of scrimmage?
The 46 defense has eight players near the line of scrimmage - All four down linemen, all three linebackers, and the free safety.

This information is not difficult to find.
You are correct: :D
46 defense

[quoteTwo defensive ends, one nose tackle, two LB, and a rush end line up on the LOS. Behind them are a MLB and a SS. It fits the depth chart.[/QUOTE]Close. You line up two defensive ends, two defensive tackles, all three linebackers (all three linebackers are shifted to the right side), and the strong safety (lined up on the strong side) close to the line of scrimmage.
 

AtlCB

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superpunk;1385951 said:
How many down linemen are there in a 46?
A 46 is a variation of the 4-3: four down linemen, three linebackers, four defensive backs. The Ravens ran a base 4-3 in 2005.

How many players along the line of scrimmage?
The 46 defense has eight players near the line of scrimmage - All four down linemen, all three linebackers, and the free safety.

This information is not difficult to find.
You are correct: :D
46 defense

Two defensive ends, one nose tackle, two LB, and a rush end line up on the LOS. Behind them are a MLB and a SS. It fits the depth chart.
Close. You line up two defensive ends, two defensive tackles, all three linebackers (all three linebackers are shifted to the right side), and the strong safety (lined up on the strong side) close to the line of scrimmage.
 

superpunk

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theogt;1385983 said:
The significant difference is that there are 4 down linemen in addition to the 2 linebackers on the one side. You stated that there are 3 down linemen, which is why you say that people confuse it with the 3-4. Since there are more then 3 down linemen it shouldn't be that hard to distinguish it from the 3-4.

The rush end does not have to have his hand on the ground.

Argh. Stop sucking me back in. Continue counting the guys with their hands on the ground.
 

theogt

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superpunk;1385989 said:
The rush end does not have to have his hand on the ground.

Argh. Stop sucking me back in. Continue counting the guys with their hands on the ground.
Oh my. It's a defensive end.
 

Chocolate Lab

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The 46 is, or was, definitely a 4-3 scheme. Dan Hampton and Richard Dent were unquestionably defensive ends and not linebackers.

Now could you do the same thing by having the DE stand up, and call it a 34? Yeah, I guess you could. But the way Buddy Ryan ran it, Richard Dent was never dropping into coverage or doing anything else LBs typically do.

But hey guys, why all the arguing over everything lately? Has cabin fever already set in this early? If so, we may all really kill each other in July. :(
 

Doomsday101

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Chocolate Lab;1385996 said:
The 46 is, or was, definitely a 4-3 scheme. Dan Hampton and Richard Dent were unquestionably defensive ends and not linebackers.

Now could you do the same thing by having the DE stand up, and call it a 34? Yeah, I guess you could. But the way Buddy Ryan ran it, Richard Dent was never dropping into coverage or doing anything else LBs typically do.

But hey guys, why all the arguing over everything lately? Has cabin fever already set in this early? If so, we may all really kill each other in July. :(

Yep. 85 Bears used a 4-3 alignment in their use of the 46 defense. As did Buddy Ryan’s unit in Philly.
 

Pottsville Maroons

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AtlCB;1385899 said:
The went back to a base 3-4 in 2006. Their depth chart on NFL.com and their official website show is based on a 3-4 defense.

I know. I pointed out that the 46 defense was a variation of the 4-3 (which is correct). Someone posted that Baltimore ran a 4-6. A 4-6 defense would signify four down linemen and six linebackers. A 46 defense would signify the version of the 4-3 that Buddy Ryan was successful with.

Sorry, AtlCB. I mis-read your post. And Superpunk has clarified since then, as well. Carry on. ;)
 
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