Gun to your head: Takk or Harris?

[waving monkey]

I was of the injury aversion but after watching more vids on Takk
and the talk of his motor and desire I'm going Jerry Jones and swing for the fences.
I dont think thats the way it will fall but my two cents

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I have questions about Harris' motor. I have no such questions in that regard about Takk.

Gimme the guy that is always hustling snap-after-snap; that guy is going to make 2-3 extra plays a game the loafer won't.

 

[Iron_Man]

In this is the scenario - We have a Dak on Offense. So, we need a Tak on Defense.

This was brought to you by the letter E and the number 4.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think Takk has a higher ceiling but the injury worries me.

Harris kind of worries me as Missouri has productive DEs in their system but not always productive in the NFL.

Missouri players concern me as well BP. Lately, you see a lot of guys coming out with issues, outside of football, that create there own problems. There system also seems to create inflated results that don't always translate well, into the NFL.

Good observation BP.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Difference between Takk and Harris; Harris would be in a leisurely stroll "chasing" the play.

 

[DCBoysfan]

Difference between Takk and Harris; Harris would be in a leisurely stroll "chasing" the play.

Thats a Marineilli guy right there.

 

[Common Sense]

This is going to be unpopular, but I'm not sure I'm sold on either of them as a difference-making 4-3 DE. That said, I'm not a scout and I don't pretend to be.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

This is going to be unpopular, but I'm not sure I'm sold on either of them as a difference-making 4-3 DE. That said, I'm not a scout and I don't pretend to be.

They both half warts so it's easy not to be overly enamored with either one.

 

[Sydla]

Takk is who I would take.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Harris

 

[gmoney112]

Difference between Takk and Harris; Harris would be in a leisurely stroll "chasing" the play.

No way bruh. Harris brings it a lot too. Maybe not as hard as Takk because Takk looks like he's just a wound up energizer bunny every play, but Harris has one of the better motors in this class fo sho.

 

[TheDuke]

This is going to be unpopular, but I'm not sure I'm sold on either of them as a difference-making 4-3 DE. That said, I'm not a scout and I don't pretend to be.

I agree with this...

I rewatched the videos on draftbreakdown of these 2 last night and today. In my untrained opinion, Harris offers more in the pass rush department. He has better hand usage and more moves in general. In the run game I think there is potential there for him but he struggles in run support. He is too often washed out of the play. Right now I don't see him being more than a 3rd down pass rush specialist coming in as a rookie. His motor doesn't run as hot as Takk but get him under Marinelli and that will change.

As far as Takk he is very active in both the run and pass game. Love his motor and effort. In my opinion he is not polished with his pass rush moves and gets by on pure athleticism and effort. I think he has greater overall potential with coaching from Marinelli. Unfortunately his injury will limit him early in his rookie year which is a factor on this team and on this defense.

I don't see either of them coming in and being a 3 down starting RDE in their rookie year...but if I had to pick one of the 2 I'll take Charles Harris.

 

[ksg811]

I agree with this...

I rewatched the videos on draftbreakdown of these 2 last night and today. In my untrained opinion, Harris offers more in the pass rush department. He has better hand usage and more moves in general. In the run game I think there is potential there for him but he struggles in run support. He is too often washed out of the play. Right now I don't see him being more than a 3rd down pass rush specialist coming in as a rookie. His motor doesn't run as hot as Takk but get him under Marinelli and that will change.

As far as Takk he is very active in both the run and pass game. Love his motor and effort. In my opinion he is not polished with his pass rush moves and gets by on pure athleticism and effort. I think he has greater overall potential with coaching from Marinelli. Unfortunately his injury will limit him early in his rookie year which is a factor on this team and on this defense.

I don't see either of them coming in and being a 3 down starting RDE in their rookie year...but if I had to pick one of the 2 I'll take Charles Harris.

I for the most part agree with your assessment. However, it seems your basing much of this on the potential 1st year impacts of these players. A first round picks carries a potential 5 year deal if the option is picked up. It is quite short sighted to look at it that way.

You make a couple statements that to me contradict each other. You say neither is ready to be a 3 down RDE immediately, which I agree with. You also say that Takk has the higher potential. If neither will be a big contributor immediately, why select the player you admit has a lower ceiling?

 

[TheDuke]

I for the most part agree with your assessment. However, it seems your basing much of this on the potential 1st year impacts of these players. A first round picks carries a potential 5 year deal if the option is picked up. It is quite short sighted to look at it that way.

You make a couple statements that to me contradict each other. You say neither is ready to be a 3 down RDE immediately, which I agree with. You also say that Takk has the higher potential. If neither will be a big contributor immediately, why select the player you admit has a lower ceiling?

In response to your first point I just don't like to look to far into the future until we see who these players are on the NFL level. I try to look at this team and how it's coached and think about the way the player will be utilized or what role he will fill for this team and the players chances of successfully filling that role and then adjust my expectations from there.

It's a tough choice between the two and I've gone back and forth on the 2 players and may change my mind again. To answer your second question I just think Harris has a better chance of reaching his ceiling even though it may be lower than Takk's. I think he's more polished as a puss rusher and with good coaching he can improve in his areas of weakness mainly run defense. One could certainly make the same argument about Takk. With good coaching he can improve his technique and add more ways to get to the quarterback. I like both players but don't love both players as seems to be the majority opinion. In the role both will be asked to play...I like Harris more to be able to fill that role on a more consistent basis.

I'm becoming less of a fan at going DE at #28 to begin with. I just don't think the impact will be there as I think we both agree on. I think there is a better chance of getting an impact player at either CB or S who can come in and start Game 1.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Which player has the quickest get off and best bend around the edge? I want someone who can line up against top LTs and win more than their fair share of time.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Which player has the quickest get off and best bend around the edge? I want someone who can line up against top LTs and win more than their fair share of time.

FWIW, McKinnley notched a 1.61 and 1.67 10-yard split. Harris put up 1.65 and 1.66.

 

[tm1119]

Missouri players concern me as well BP. Lately, you see a lot of guys coming out with issues, outside of football, that create there own problems. There system also seems to create inflated results that don't always translate well, into the NFL.

Good observation BP.

Golden and Rey combined for 20.5 sacks last year...and Rey only got 8 games as a full time starter on Denver's D behind Miller and Ware

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Golden and Rey combined for 20.5 sacks last year...and Rey only got 8 games as a full time starter on Denver's D behind Miller and Ware

Evan Boehm
Connor McGovern
Kentrell Brothers
Dorial Green-Beckham
Mitch Morse
Bud Sasser
Marcus Murphy
Kony Ealy
Justin Britt
E. J. Gaines
Michael Sam
Sheldon Richardson
Zaviar Gooden
Michael Egnew
Aldon Smith
Blaine Gabbert
Andrew Gachkar

And here are the rest of them. Aldon Smith put up 34.5 in his first two years and look where he's at. The statement was:

Lately, you see a lot of guys coming out with issues, outside of football, that create there own problems. There system also seems to create inflated results that don't always translate well, into the NFL.

In addition to Ray and Golden, you also have Green-Beckham and Richardson, whom have issues (like Aldon Smith who I loved coming out), that teams do not love. Richardson, physically, is one of the most gifted DTs in the entire NFL and he's up for trade bait.

The fact that Golden and Ray have had good seasons, with just two years in, doesn't really mean they will continue to be productive players. I mean, I hope they continue but we've seen guys come into the league and self destruct. I think it's valid concern for players coming from Missouri.

 

[tm1119]

Evan Boehm
Connor McGovern
Kentrell Brothers
Dorial Green-Beckham
Mitch Morse
Bud Sasser
Marcus Murphy
Kony Ealy
Justin Britt
E. J. Gaines
Michael Sam
Sheldon Richardson
Zaviar Gooden
Michael Egnew
Aldon Smith
Blaine Gabbert
Andrew Gachkar

And here are the rest of them. Aldon Smith put up 34.5 in his first two years and look where he's at. The statement was:

Lately, you see a lot of guys coming out with issues, outside of football, that create there own problems. There system also seems to create inflated results that don't always translate well, into the NFL.

In addition to Ray and Golden, you also have Green-Beckham and Richardson, whom have issues (like Aldon Smith who I loved coming out), that teams do not love. Richardson, physically, is one of the most gifted DTs in the entire NFL and he's up for trade bait.

The fact that Golden and Ray have had good seasons, with just two years in, doesn't really mean they will continue to be productive players. I mean, I hope they continue but we've seen guys come into the league and self destruct. I think it's valid concern for players coming from Missouri.

Don't think Golden had any character concerns?

I get what you're saying, but it's pretty ridiculous to think that because previous players that went to Mizzu had character concerns that Harris (or anyone else) will also. Mizzu is the business of recruiting good football players, it's the nature of the sport/culture that there's going to be a few bad eggs in the bunch. Doesn't make every player from Mizzu a problem. Hell, what major football program HASN'T had a bunch of bad character players?

 

[Chuck 54]

Harris....I'll take the guy with production who's healthy over the one trick pony who's done nothing but run a straight line for one season, a guy who's injured and will miss camp and maybe the first month...sorry, that's a second rounder in my opinion.

We need someone who can at least join the rotation this year.