Hail To The RedTails?

[Califan007]

No, you wouldn't. Why pretend that? I'm not even arguing you should change your name, but 'Commander' is a derogatory term.

In reality, no, you can't easily find any examples of "Commander" being "commonly used as a racial slur" through American history. I'll even ask you specifically: when have you heard or read it used as a derogatory racial slur?

 

[Idgit]

In reality, no, you can't easily find any examples of "Commander" being "commonly used as a racial slur" through American history. I'll even ask you specifically: when have you heard or read it used as a derogatory racial slur?

Yeah, this isn't a debate I'm interested in having. Let's just agree to disagree, but bear in mind, that just because you don't happen to find something offensive, it doesn't mean others don't.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

how about "Honkies" or "Crackers" -- let's even out the offensive names.

 

[Califan007]

Yeah, this isn't a debate I'm interested in having. Let's just agree to disagree, but bear in mind, that just because you don't happen to find something offensive, it doesn't mean others don't.

My posts weren't about whether or not I found the term offensive or if anyone else did. It was about WHY someone thought the term 'Commander' was offensive. I've asked about 4 people online over the past few months why they felt the term might be offensive. No one has given me an answer yet other than the equivalent of "it just is".

 

[Eric_Boyer]

My posts weren't about whether or not I found the term offensive or if anyone else did. It was about WHY someone thought the term 'Commander' was offensive. I've asked about 4 people online over the past few months why they felt the term might be offensive. No one has given me an answer yet other than the equivalent of "it just is".

labeling people by the color of their skin is no more or less offensive then labeling them by the size of their chest.

Do you really need someone to sit you down and explain to you why a percentage of the population will be annoyed if you were called the Washington C Cups?

It isn't just c cups that would be annoyed by the immature and moronic vernacular.

 

[Califan007]

labeling people by the color of their skin is no more or less offensive then labeling them by the size of their chest.

So calling people "white" or "black" is offensive?

What about the term "people of color"?...Is that offensive, too? Or is it only offensive when the color is actually named? lol

 

[Idgit]

My posts weren't about whether or not I found the term offensive or if anyone else did. It was about WHY someone thought the term 'Commander' was offensive. I've asked about 4 people online over the past few months why they felt the term might be offensive. No one has given me an answer yet other than the equivalent of "it just is".

I'd have thought that was self-evident. It draws a distinction between people based off of coloring, to begin with, which is a superficial way to make a distinction. The fact that it refers to a person's 'skin' and not the person himself is in itself an objectification of sorts. In my opinion, at least, it's a term that's connoted with scalping if only because it's tied to a period of conflict and directly refers to the skin.

I'll admit, your management's history of overt racism also informs my perspective. It'd be easier to buy the harmless interpretation of the name if it derived under other ownership.

But, generally, it's a term that's used to draw distinctions between groups of people based on the color of their skin. Some have no problem with that (and I sympathize with their perspective...there are many more important things than skin color). Some are offended by it. But, pretty much by definition, if some are offended by the term, then the term can reasonably be considered offensive.

 

[Califan007]

I'd have thought that was self-evident. It draws a distinction between people based off of coloring, to begin with, which is a superficial way to make a distinction. The fact that it refers to a person's 'skin' and not the person himself is in itself an objectification of sorts. In my opinion, at least, it's a term that's connoted with scalping if only because it's tied to a period of conflict and directly refers to the skin.

I'll admit, your management's history of overt racism also informs my perspective. It'd be easier to buy the harmless interpretation of the name if it derived under other ownership.

But, generally, it's a term that's used to draw distinctions between groups of people based on the color of their skin. Some have no problem with that (and I sympathize with their perspective...there are many more important things than skin color). Some are offended by it. But, pretty much by definition, if some are offended by the term, then the term can reasonably be considered offensive.

I'm not sure how it's tied to scalping, but ok...

To be honest, I'm thinking "Commander" is more politically incorrect than it is some obscene racial slur with a distinctive place in our country's history...because you just do NOT see the term used in our history very much, and when you do it's just as likely to be used by Native Americans themselves in a proud way than by European settlers or early Americans in some sort of damaging way. And it is in no way connected to scalping lol...(that's a myth that seems to keep getting repeated by some).

And to be further honest (if that makes sense lol), if the entire argument around changing the Commanders' name was built upon it being politically incorrect/insensitive in our current social climate, I'd have more respect for the argument. Instead, though, it's passed off as "obviously offensive and obscene slur", the "worst thing you can call a Native American" (not by a longshot, but hey, sounds good to say that)...etc, etc, yadda yadda. The argument of "We just don't say things like that in polite company anymore" rings more true and is far more convincing than any argument given about its racist background, origin and history.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

So calling people "white" or "black" is offensive?

What about the term "people of color"?...Is that offensive, too? Or is it only offensive when the color is actually named? lol

labeling people by physical anatomy is offensive to many.

not me. but I'm not going to feign ignorance of the fact that others are bothered by it.

 

[Califan007]

labeling people by physical anatomy is offensive to many.

not me. but I'm not going to feign ignorance of the fact that others are bothered by it.

Again, my posts aren't about whether or not there are people who feel offended by 'Commanders'...it's about why they are. Everything on the planet offends someone. Simply being offended shouldn't be enough, at least not in my eyes.

I could build an argument why the "N-word" should be seen as offensive to everyone, not just me, and it would be one helluva strong argument with a ****load of facts, history, information and data. I wouldn't have to rely on "well, others are bothered by it so that's enough".

 

[Idgit]

I'm not sure how it's tied to scalping, but ok...

To be honest, I'm thinking "Commander" is more politically incorrect than it is some obscene racial slur with a distinctive place in our country's history...because you just do NOT see the term used in our history very much, and when you do it's just as likely to be used by Native Americans themselves in a proud way than by European settlers or early Americans in some sort of damaging way. And it is in no way connected to scalping lol...(that's a myth that seems to keep getting repeated by some).

And to be further honest (if that makes sense lol), if the entire argument around changing the Commanders' name was built upon it being politically incorrect/insensitive in our current social climate, I'd have more respect for the argument. Instead, though, it's passed off as "obviously offensive and obscene slur", the "worst thing you can call a Native American" (not by a longshot, but hey, sounds good to say that)...etc, etc, yadda yadda. The argument of "We just don't say things like that in polite company anymore" rings more true and is far more convincing than any argument given about its racist background, origin and history.

I don't think it's just political correctness that has people uncomfortable with using skin color as a means of categorizing people who were historically in a conflict where the group in question was then decimated.

But, again, I don't want you guys to change your names. I like it. And I like that you're mascot and ours have a history of conflict, too.

It's an interesting debate, and I have more I'd like to say on the topic, but I'm restricted from exploring even interesting topics that can be considered insensitive, so I'll restrain myself. Because the analogy to the WWII Japanese I'd like to make next would probably take me across a line I don't want to cross.

 

[slaga]

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/national/US-poll-finds-widespread-support-for-Commanders-name_13986407
More find it not offensive than those that do.

 

[Sonny#9]

I don't think it's just political correctness that has people uncomfortable with using skin color as a means of categorizing people who were historically in a conflict where the group in question was then decimated.

But, again, I don't want you guys to change your names. I like it. And I like that you're mascot and ours have a history of conflict, too.

It's an interesting debate, and I have more I'd like to say on the topic, but I'm restricted from exploring even interesting topics that can be considered insensitive, so I'll restrain myself. Because the analogy to the WWII Japanese I'd like to make next would probably take me across a line I don't want to cross.

From a legal standpoint, at least I believe -- if there are any lawyers present, please feel free to correct me -- current connotation plays a lot into the legal definition of "offensive."

For example, if anyone said Commanders -- I think the very small minority would actually think "racist term for Native Americans." 99% would think about the football team that swept the Cowboys to take the NFC East last year D). At worst, one would think of "the football team with the racist name." But their still thinking about the football team. It seems that a very vocal minority believes it to be offensive, and a bunch of people who are getting their panties in a bunch for those people -- like Mike Wise.

To illustrate my point further, take the derogatory term for homosexuals that rhymes with 'maggot.' It's actual definition is a bundle of sticks. If you walked down the street asking people "hey I need kindling for a campfire this weekend, would you help me round up some f-----ts?" I think you would get, at the very least, some strange looks.

Again, I am not debating if the word is offensive or not, that's entirely up to the individual. I am asking if it should be changed because 18% of people find it offensive.

 

[zrinkill]

So calling people "white" or "black" is offensive?

Try naming a team "the Whiteboys" or the "Blackskins" in the NFL and see how far that flys.

 

[muck4doo]

Try naming a team "the Whiteboys" or the "Blackskins" in the NFL and see how far that flys.

These are the same people that defended segregation in sports till the end. Good luck arguing with them. Leave it to Commanders fans.

 

[Sonny#9]

These are the same people that defended segregation in sports till the end. Good luck arguing with them. Leave it to Commanders fans.

I love arguments like these and "well name them the 'Blackskins,' and see how people respond to that!"

80% of people do not find it offensive. When was the last time anyone heard the term "Commander" as an insult?

Do not include the Vinny Cerrato era.

 

[zrinkill]

I love arguments like these and "well name them the 'Blackskins,' and see how people respond to that!"

Name a team the blackskins and make the mascot and symbol be a Zulu warrior.

Its the same thing. The exact same thing.

 

[muck4doo]

I love arguments like these and "well name them the 'Blackskins,' and see how people respond to that!"

80% of people do not find it offensive. When was the last time anyone heard the term "Commander" as an insult?

Do not include the Vinny Cerrato era.

Mr. Marshall and his fans also didn't find it offensive they didn't want to integrate. I understand you love your team, but dude, it's the Commanders. They have a history of racism., and their followers who defend it. Cowboys Chicken Club forever! Stop being on the wrong side of history.

 

[muck4doo]

I love arguments like these and "well name them the 'Blackskins,' and see how people respond to that!"

80% of people do not find it offensive. When was the last time anyone heard the term "Commander" as an insult?

Do not include the Vinny Cerrato era.

You would have also defended that most people weren't against segregation in sports. You Commanders fans make me sick.

 

[muck4doo]

Yep. All white uniform with a red splash across the butt for the Commanders. My case has been affirmed.