Hallelujah, the Commanders Still Don't Get It

[UnoDallas]

Which is why it appears operation Luck is now in effect, in particular if Beck is starting next season. I tell people that if John Beck starts for the Commanders in 2011, Andrew Luck will be starting in 2012 because we will be historically bad

and you think Shanny will do anythihng for him

I put my money on SF getting Luck

 

[jobberone]

I don't see SF as being at the bottom of the barrell. I suspect AZ will pick up a decent QB and not be in the Luck sweepstakes either. Wash is a very good candidate. I hope they don't end up with Luck though.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

I told people 2 years ago Luck was the real deal when I saw him play. Part of me would love it if you are in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Part of me would hate it. I hope you are in it and lose out to someone like Minnesota or Arizona (the team I actually think ends up with him).

Arizona's "advantage" is they are still in a relatively weak division and have Larry Fitzgerald. In a 16 game season, they can win 4-5 games. Even though Seattle "won" the NFCW, I still think they are a better bet to finish in last in the NFCW.

Minnesota just drafted Ponder in round 1.

Like I said earlier, I think he's trying to drum up trade interest by saying they would do it again and it isn't a mistake.

I'm rooting for an outright waiver. Par.

Odds are he will be released. Who in the hell is going to trade for McNabb? :laugh2:

and you think Shanny will do anythihng for him

I put my money on SF getting Luck

SF has too much talent on D, and Harbaugh is a damn good coach. If Harbaugh can get C+ QB play out of one of his QBs, SF will win 8 games in a 16 game season

I don't see SF as being at the bottom of the barrell. I suspect AZ will pick up a decent QB and not be in the Luck sweepstakes either. Wash is a very good candidate. I hope they don't end up with Luck though.

If Shanahan and Allen are doing what I think they are doing (based on the moves in the draft, we'll see whenever there is FA) then it will be the Commanders, Bills, Panthers, Seahawks competing for that top spot in the draft. Seeing how our rotation has us playing the AFC east this year (with the Pats, Jets, Bills and Dolphins) as well as the NFC east (while I am far from sold on you guys, and odds are we get a win vs you all, the Eagles and Giants are still very good), we should be in "good" shape to land that top spot and land Luck.

And yes, if Luck comes to DC, things line up nicely in the division over the next decade, as Vick, Romo and Eli enter their 30s. Luck will be in his mid 20s while the Cowboys, Eagles and Giants are looking for their next QB. And this kid has it all, I really have trouble finding a flaw in his game, in particular after the way he picked apart Bud Foster's defense in the Orange Bowl and was able to adjust so well in the 2nd half of that game. He will be a QB like Bradford who can elevate lesser talent around him.

 

[DawnOfANewD]

That franchise has been an exercise in futility going on two decades now

Nevermind the fact that the Commanders franchise is 2nd in valuation according to Forbes (behind the Cowboys): http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/25/mo...iness-sports-football-valuations-10_land.html. DAL is the most popular team in the NFL no matter how good the team is and is therefore a guaranteed moneymaking machine. Same with WAS so I doubt Dan Snyder really cares how well his team does.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

+1 not like he is going to say he would never have picked up a guy on his roster when said player is still there

"Hindsight being what it is, we likely would have gone a different direction within the trade or approached the deal from an alternate angle. That's not a knock on Donovan. He's a great player and the consummate professional. It's only a comment on what we are trying to achieve as an organization and as a team looking to the present and future."

That's how you'd do it. It's not hard, it's not complex. It's a few sentences saying "we screwed up and we're not planning to make the same mistake again."

 

[SkinsFan28]

I didn't like the McNabb trade when they did it. That said, the Skins FO simply has never been one to say "we screwed up". I don't think anyone has said it about AH yet, and that was as bad as the McNabb stuff.

But we aren't in the AL sweepstakes, won't be record-wise (we were 6-10 last year with the AH/DM debacles) and we should be no worse than that this year. You don't tank a whole season to gamble on A) getting the 1st overall pick, and B) gambling that a single player turns out to be "special". I do believe that there is a MUCH better crop of qb's coming out next year, and that is why the Skins passed on Gabbert this year. We still will probably pick no higher than 15th () and so we will get a solid qb prospect with our first pick.

 

[Nightshade]

I didn't like the McNabb trade when they did it. That said, the Skins FO simply has never been one to say "we screwed up". I don't think anyone has said it about AH yet, and that was as bad as the McNabb stuff.

But we aren't in the AL sweepstakes, won't be record-wise (we were 6-10 last year with the AH/DM debacles) and we should be no worse than that this year. You don't tank a whole season to gamble on A) getting the 1st overall pick, and B) gambling that a single player turns out to be "special". I do believe that there is a MUCH better crop of qb's coming out next year, and that is why the Skins passed on Gabbert this year. We still will probably pick no higher than 15th () and so we will get a solid qb prospect with our first pick.

I hope the Skins have a Great 2011. They'll do better than they hope. heh
Luck is too Lucky to go to Washington.

 

[Hostile]

Arizona's "advantage" is they are still in a relatively weak division and have Larry Fitzgerald. In a 16 game season, they can win 4-5 games. Even though Seattle "won" the NFCW, I still think they are a better bet to finish in last in the NFCW.

Minnesota just drafted Ponder in round 1.

I confess, I forgot about Ponder. What would really suck is if Carolina has the #1 pick again. What do they do?

I suspect Buffalo, Cincy, Jacksonville, Denver, Carolina, and Arizona will be the teams in competition with the Commanders for Mr. Luck.

Denver would be a good move, following Elway yet again. Nice symmetry.

As a side note I can appreciate the quandary you are in over a QB like Luck. I was there in 1988 with Aikman the 1989 Draft prize.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

I confess, I forgot about Ponder. What would really suck is if Carolina has the #1 pick again. What do they do?

I suspect Buffalo, Cincy, Jacksonville, Denver, Carolina, and Arizona will be the teams in competition with the Commanders for Mr. Luck.

Denver would be a good move, following Elway yet again. Nice symmetry.

As a side note I can appreciate the quandary you are in over a QB like Luck. I was there in 1988 with Aikman the 1989 Draft prize.

Buffalo is the big one there.

Cincy just drafted Dalton high in the 2nd round. Jacksonville traded with us to get Gabbert (who I think will be a fine QB)

Denver is interesting, lets see how Tebow does this year. I would suspect Carolina would trade the pick to the highest bidder. Arizona, as I said before, I think will win 4-5 games in that terrible division.

But again crazy things can happen and John Beck could end up being a good QB that leads the team to 11 wins with an improved defense, and a younger offense. That would crack me up if it happened. If things go the other way, being the big picture guy I am, I have no issues with 2011 being punted away

 

[Hostile]

Buffalo is the big one there.

Cincy just drafted Dalton high in the 2nd round. Jacksonville traded with us to get Gabbert (who I think will be a fine QB)

Denver is interesting, lets see how Tebow does this year. I would suspect Carolina would trade the pick to the highest bidder. Arizona, as I said before, I think will win 4-5 games in that terrible division.

But again crazy things can happen and John Beck could end up being a good QB that leads the team to 11 wins with an improved defense, and a younger offense. That would crack me up if it happened. If things go the other way, being the big picture guy I am, I have no issues with 2011 being punted away

I think AZ is going to suck. At least I hope so. Living here is much better with the blackouts in effect.

 

[Chuck 54]

No one tanks a season to position for the #1 draft pick...no one...ever.

Now, if there are 3-4 weeks left in the season, you stink, and you think the #1 pick will turn your franchise around, you may tank a few games, but no one who values his job or reputation in the NFL has ever tanked a season.

Can you imagine tanking your season? How do you actually do it...there are other players out there trying to win and survive...do you purposely put them into positions to fail so that they can't upset your plans? How do you do that? If you bring the #1 rookie QB into a situation like that the next year, do you actually expect to improve with that particular cast?

What if you find a way to tank your season by keeping crappy players and not giving them any chance to succeed....and then that top prospect blows out a knee or rips up a shoulder in a bowl game....even Luck wouldn't be the first "can't miss" prospect to go belly up in the NFL.

No way...no one tanks their season in hopes of drafting the next great college player. The Skins don't have a great master plan like this; they just suck and don't know what to do about it...Shannihan thinks the #1 step in improving the team is proving that he's the boss and getting everyone to tow the line...and so far it ain't working for him.

I am so thankful we didn't hire him.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

No one tanks a season to position for the #1 draft pick...no one...ever.

.

There are ways to "tank" without actually tanking

Step 1) Clear out old veterans. Gone Clinton Portis. Gone Andre Carter. Most likey will see Santana Moss gone

2) Have a good draft with lots of picks. Done, 12 solid picks. Lets see who sticks around

3) Sign targeted vets in FA who can also serve as leaders. So far with Atogwe, a good step with a good contract. We'll see what happens there

4) Play said young draft picks. I'd suspect the team that starts against the Giants will be far younger then the team that started against the Cowboys in September 2010.

5) Not make any moves to improve the QB spot in the draft, even when a top prospect falls. John Beck, barring a miracle, is a sacrifical lamb.

The pluses: Young players get playing time and experience. Evaluations occur. Young core develops, team grows together.

Thats doing what needs to be done to get better over the long run. Odds are that ends up being a very bad season. You still go out to win every game, put in maximum effort, but odds are the deck is stacked against you

What doesn't work is bringing in a bunch of stop gaps and getting to 7-9 wins. You are just middling at that point

 

[Aikmaniac]

Is Snyder that committed to Bruce/Mike to go through a terrible 2011 season?

 

[SkinsFan28]

There are ways to "tank" without actually tanking

Step 1) Clear out old veterans. Gone Clinton Portis. Gone Andre Carter. Most likey will see Santana Moss gone

2) Have a good draft with lots of picks. Done, 12 solid picks. Lets see who sticks around

3) Sign targeted vets in FA who can also serve as leaders. So far with Atogwe, a good step with a good contract. We'll see what happens there

4) Play said young draft picks. I'd suspect the team that starts against the Giants will be far younger then the team that started against the Cowboys in September 2010.

5) Not make any moves to improve the QB spot in the draft, even when a top prospect falls. John Beck, barring a miracle, is a sacrifical lamb.

The pluses: Young players get playing time and experience. Evaluations occur. Young core develops, team grows together.

Thats doing what needs to be done to get better over the long run. Odds are that ends up being a very bad season. You still go out to win every game, put in maximum effort, but odds are the deck is stacked against you

What doesn't work is bringing in a bunch of stop gaps and getting to 7-9 wins. You are just middling at that point

I don't consider any of that "tanking" a season, it's called rebuilding, something us Skins fans haven't really been accustomed too lately. The 1st pick will require 2-3 wins at most, and if you think MS to be on his record you are wrong. Now, maybe, with a rookie cap in place trading becomes more possible, but Cleveland is the leader in that with 2 1st round picks and an extra 4th, plus some others I think.

The Skins have two good drafts (i think) under BA/MS and we should field a bit better team this year than last. Surely ending up with a mid 1st pick (10-19) would not count as tanking, or put us in any contention for AL

 

[Mansta54]

Is Snyder that committed to Bruce/Mike to go through a terrible 2011 season?

No!!!!!!

 

[Mansta54]

I don't consider any of that "tanking" a season, it's called rebuilding, something us Skins fans haven't really been accustomed too lately. The 1st pick will require 2-3 wins at most, and if you think MS to be on his record you are wrong. Now, maybe, with a rookie cap in place trading becomes more possible, but Cleveland is the leader in that with 2 1st round picks and an extra 4th, plus some others I think.

The Skins have two good drafts (i think) under BA/MS and we should field a bit better team this year than last. Surely ending up with a mid 1st pick (10-19) would not count as tanking, or put us in any contention for AL

I'm curious, what makes you think they've had 2 good drafts so far? Your No. 1 pick last year and 4th overall TW was very avg. last year and even got in the coaches doghouse with his lack of effort and tardiness to meetings. It's not starting off well for him this offseason either, he's been a complete "no show" to every team workout so far claiming he didn't know about them. That's not good for a dude who already had the LAZY tag on him in college.

This year your No. 1 pick was a 4yr DE in a 4-3 and you're trying to convert him to a OLB in a 3-4, not saying he can't do it but why use such a high pick on a project move? If you wanted a OLB, your pick was high enough to get a legit OLB without trying to convert one. The guy has a high motor and great work ethic but I don't know if he's athletic enough to make that move. He was a great DE in the 4-3 though. MS is known for NOT knowing personnel, that's why his good friend ran him out of Denver.. Help me out, explain your 2 good drafts for me please..

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

I don't consider any of that "tanking" a season, it's called rebuilding, something us Skins fans haven't really been accustomed too lately. The 1st pick will require 2-3 wins at most, and if you think MS to be on his record you are wrong. Now, maybe, with a rookie cap in place trading becomes more possible, but Cleveland is the leader in that with 2 1st round picks and an extra 4th, plus some others I think.

The Skins have two good drafts (i think) under BA/MS and we should field a bit better team this year than last. Surely ending up with a mid 1st pick (10-19) would not count as tanking, or put us in any contention for AL

I agree the drafts have been solid thus far, it looks like there is a corner stone in Trent Williams at LT, Anthony Armstrong was a nice pickup, Brandon Banks will have a role, and I really look forward to seeing how this year's crop develops, in particular Kerrigan, Jenkins and especially Hankerson (major steal in round 3)

The deck is still stacked against this squad with a patch work o-line and really no reliable QB. Look at the Cowboys with all their so called "Talent" last year, it got them to a 1-7 start.

Pefect 2011 for me would be a lockout shortened 8-10 game season which sees us win 1 game playing all the young guys as much as possible. Punt it, get the QB in the house (since we didn't have ammo for Bradford back in 2010) and move forward from there

 

[Longboysfan]

He was being nice to McNabb. It's obvious to anyone with two brain cells the trade was a big mistake.

Your talking about Sikns Management and two working brain cells in the Washington DC area.

 

[AsthmaField]

I'm curious, what makes you think they've had 2 good drafts so far? Your No. 1 pick last year and 4th overall TW was very avg. last year and even got in the coaches doghouse with his lack of effort and tardiness to meetings. It's not starting off well for him this offseason either, he's been a complete "no show" to every team workout so far claiming he didn't know about them. That's not good for a dude who already had the LAZY tag on him in college.

This year your No. 1 pick was a 4yr DE in a 4-3 and you're trying to convert him to a OLB in a 3-4, not saying he can't do it but why use such a high pick on a project move? If you wanted a OLB, your pick was high enough to get a legit OLB without trying to convert one. The guy has a high motor and great work ethic but I don't know if he's athletic enough to make that move. He was a great DE in the 4-3 though. MS is known for NOT knowing personnel, that's why his good friend ran him out of Denver.. Help me out, explain your 2 good drafts for me please..

Trent Williams isn't bad (although his work ethic appears to be), but he wasn't nearly as good as Okung was. The Skins fans only have the fact that Okung got hurt and Williams didn't, to hang their hats on, and that's all you keep hearing when the two are compared. Okung is the better player and that was easy to tell even before he was recently ranked in the top echelon of left tackles while Williams ranked near the bottom.

Trent is OK... just not anything near what you'd want from the 4th overall player taken.

As for the rest of that 2010 Commanders draft, it doesn't look like Shanahan is going to get much of anything out of any of them. Maybe they get lucky and Perry Riley can help, but it doesn't look like it.

The 2011 draft was... better than 2010, but I still don't like what they did. Kerrigan is way better than what they had opposite Orakpo last year, but that isn't saying that much. They could have had a much better player at #10 but they chose to make the trade down for a second rounder. They could have had Quinn if they had wanted to go OLB, or they could have taken Pouncey, JJ Watt, Fairley, or Blaine Gabbert.

Quinn is a much better prospect for OLB. He's clearly a better athlete and his ceiling is WAY higher, even if his floor is lower than Kerrigan's.

Pouncey is a much, much better prospect as a guard than Kerrigan is as an OLB. It would be a big surprise if Pouncey isn't playing at a pro bowl level very soon.

Also, JJ Watt is a much better prospect at DE than Kerrigan is at OLB. At 300 pounds, Watt is just about as athletic and moves nearly as well as the much smaller Kerrigan. Watt also is more versatile for a 34 than Kerrigan is, IMO. Watt would be a terror rushing either from the 34 DE spot or the 43 DT spot.

I was immensely relieved when Washington didn't take Nick Fairley. They guy is going to be a monster and I was horrified at the thought of Haslett using Fairley all over the DL in 34 and 43 looks. IMO, if you are talking about the difference between what Fairley will bring to the front seven and what Kerrigan brings... there is no comparison.

Gabbert could have made the biggest of all impacts for the Commanders. To skip him to take Kerrigan actually made me laugh on draft day. Maybe Gabbert isn't all that but to have the chance to take him and skip him for Kerrigan and a 2nd is ludicrous IMO. Oh well... that's Shanahan for you.

Any of those guys would have been a better pick than Kerrigan and a second. Some would have been better than others (Fairley, Gabbert), but any of them would have been the direction I would have gone. If Shanahan wanted extra picks that bad, he could have used other picks to trade back, but IMO he should have kept the blue chip pick and went with a game changer.

And in the second round, to take a player who I think is going to be just a guy on the DL was priceless. At best Jarvis Jenkins will be a run stopper. Even in that Clemson defense he still couldn't get to the QB. And Jimmy Johnson said it best when he said that run stoppers were a dime-a-dozen in the NFL and that you only use high picks on guys who can stop the run AND get after the QB. The Skins could have gotten a guy like Jenkins (or better) much later on in the draft, if not as an UDFA.

The Hankerson pick was ok, but I just didn't like him a lot as a WR, even before the Skins picked him. He's just too slow and can't get much separation. I feel like slower guys have to be kind of shorter (see Wes Welker) in order to be shifty enough to get separation. If not speed, then quickness to get away from athletic DB's. Hankerson is neither fast nor quick. All he has is height, which he does use to make some jump balls. He will have a hard time getting away from NFL DB's, so Commander fans better pray he can at least out jump some.

Helu has the athleticism, but not the backbone. I've read several places that he isn't too fond of contact and lacks heart. PFW actually says:

Plays small — runs too upright and narrow-based and is not a great tackle breaker. Struggles to sort out what he sees and negotiate through traffic. Questionable competitiveness — is not mentally or physically tough. Does not consistently move the chains and most of yardage resulted from long gains. Disinterested blocker. Bench-pressed 225 pounds only 11 times at the Combine.

Link: http://www.profootballweekly.com/prospects/player/roy-helu-10/

They end his evaluation by saying that he likely will be overdrafted on measurables. It appears that is exactly what Washington did. Royster will play more than Helu will, IMO, and was a much better draft pick.

Goth Dejon Gomes and Niles Paul were ok picks, IMO. In the 5th, they are certainly worth taking a chance on. Paul in particular could end up as a player if he can get his head on straight. He will always be a little limited physically though.

The rest of the 6th and 7th rounders are long shots at best... even on a team like the Commanders. Some will probably stick, but I'd be surprised if any amount to much. I guess anyone would considering they are late round draft picks.

************

So, I don't see a great draft there. I see a lot of missed chances and maybe's. Time will tell, of course, and it is too soon to be calling either draft a bad one... but it is certainly too early to be calling either draft a good, solid draft either.

Time will tell, but I think the Commanders missed some big-time opportunities there. They could have had Okung and Pouncey on the O-Line. Or Okung and Fairley. Or Okung with a gifted, young QB in Gabbert learning under the Shanahan's.

As a Cowboy fan, I'm thrilled to instead see Williams and Kerrigan.

 

[casmith07]

Cowboys fans forget that Mike Shanahan's GM/roster moves in Denver are what did him in, eventually. Particularly on the defensive side of the football.