Has the black QB debate died

[Beast_from_East]

It isn't just Black QBs who are not taught this. In fact, Roger Staubach admitted he was coached to take off when he sensed trouble. Colleges have to take advantage of every possible mismatch. In the Pros discipline will always prevail over natural ability.

That is why Troy Aikman succeeded but Jeff George failed. It is why Matt Leinart is behind Kurt Warner in Arizona. It is why Byron Leftwich will get another chance to start despite the fact he is not mobile. It is why Jeff Garcia, who is mobile, might get the same chances.

Offenses are different between the NFL and the NCAA. That is why so often Heisman trophy winning QBs do not do well in the NFL any more. They play in college gimmick offenses that do not translate well to the NFL.

Look at this year's Draft, Mathew Stafford of Georgia is considered the top Pro prospect. He is a classic drop back passer. Graham Harrell had better stats in college, so why isn't he rated higher by the NFL teams? Because of the type of Offensive systems they play in. Stafford is further along in the NFL ways than Harrell.

Therefore I would say Harrell is not being taught correctly. Now you can say he isn't taught to take off running, but it is still poor transalation to the NFL game what he is doing.

What it boils down to is QBs who can become disciplined to the NFL game will usually succeed. Those who want to rely on their God given ability tend to fail. You know why Tony Romo has succeeded here in Dallas while Bledsose ultimately failed? It isn't because of mobility. It's because Tony was disciplined enought to follow Parcell's mantra of get rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds. He was disciplined enough to do this and he flourished.

It doesn't mean Bledsoe, a statue, would fail everywhere. Dan Marino was a statue. Dan could play in the NFL today because he got rid of the football.

The QBs who fail do not fail because of skin color. They fail because they do not discipline themselves enough to the NFL game. It has nothing to do with skin color, mobility, arm strength, or even size. It has everything to do with discipline. It always has. There can only be 96 guys doing the job any given year and only 32 of them start. Each year a Brady or a Romo comes along who busts his butt and just overhauls a more talented guy who believes in himself and nothing else.

Great Post Hostile.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I wish this topic would die.....

 

[marchetta]

Yeah, it's pretty much a dead horse. Also, the myths about black head coaches is dead since 3 of the last 6 Superbowl head-coaches have been black.

 

[Doomsday101]

Seems like at the beginnng of the decade their was all this talk about how the black QB would soon dominate the league like most of the other positions. You has players like McNabb, Culpepper, Leftwich, McNair, Carter all starting for teams. Now only McNabb and the last few years you don't see black QB's getting drafted. What's your opinion on the change?

I think if a man can play the position then it really does not matter what color the man is.

 

[lcharles]

Dude, why should I worry about black QB's, our mexican one is driving me crazy.

 

[CATCH17]

McNabb is a heck of a QB when he brings his game but he gets fat and happy to fast.

Calling Vince Young a bust is typical NFL fan making their year to year dives off the deep end. Its still to early and he was Rookie of the year.

Leftwich not starting in the NFL is a joke. Especially with the pedigree of Quarterbacks in this league. He is a great natural passer and can pick you apart.

Culpepper... sucks and has always been mightily overrated. Even in his hay day.

 

[Doomsday101]

McNabb is a heck of a QB when he brings his game but he gets fat and happy to fast.

Calling Vince Young a bust is typical NFL fan making their year to year dives off the deep end. Its still to early and he was Rookie of the year.

Leftwich not starting in the NFL is a joke. Especially with the pedigree of Quarterbacks in this league. He is a great natural passer and can pick you apart.

Culpepper... sucks and has always been mightily overrated. Even in his hay day.

I agree on all accounts how ever I will say Leftwich not starting is not a shock I think the injuries have caught up to him. At the top of his career I agree the man was a very good QB

 

[DFWJC]

My opinion is it has nothing whatsoever to do with skin color and that QB is a cyclical thing in the NFL. There will always be trends to follow. Skin color is not the trend, the degree of mobility is. There are still very mobile QBs in the NFL right now, including Romo.

That's it. If a QB can get the job done and show leadership while doing it, he will play in this league. Skin color at any position is a null and void topic.

 

[Doomsday101]

Why don't see topics of why are there so few white CB in the NFL? :laugh2:

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I think Hostile put it best. That was a great post.

 

[Hostile]

I never notice skin color or race until someone points it out. I see uniform colors.

 

[DFWJC]

I agree on all accounts how ever I will say Leftwich not starting is not a shock I think the injuries have caught up to him. At the top of his career I agree the man was a very good QB

Leftwich has one of the slowest releases in the league, but he can sling it when he has the time. Garrard was better overall in Jax, but even he sufferred last year when 3/5 of his line went down.

 

[Bleu Star]

This is not a debate of color, it's a debate over style of quarterback.

Game. Set. Match.

Signed,

Black Guy

 

[tyke1doe]

I've always thought this as well.

Take skin color out of the debate, high schools do an injustice to "fast" quarterbacks in a sense. They ride them for their athleticism alone so, so often, and it's just not enough time in college to learn all the cerebral aspects to become a legitimate NFL quarterback prospect three or four years after high school.

It just so happens the uber-quick quarterbacks seem to black more often than white, which is why this becomes perceived as a crisis with the development of "black" QBs as opposed to "athletic" ones.

Another point. Look at many of the good-to-great NFL quarterbacks ... John Elway, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton and Eli Manning, Brett Favre. What do they have in common? Many of them had fathers who were coaches, who knew the finer points of football and the quarterback position.

Then consider black quarterbacks. How many black players/quarterbacks have father figures around who can teach them the nuiances of the game?

I see that first hand. My son used to play athletics in a predominantly black area. I had to coach him and other players, but there were very few black men available to help me. Mostly moms. Then I moved to a more affluent, predominantly white neighborhood, and most of the fathers (white) are coaches, assistant coaches, etc. We have no shortage of white men who are investing in their sons' sporting endeavors, practicing with them and trying to teach them the little things to make them better.

It's interesting to see and notice as it takes shape.

 

[Derinyar]

Agreed the question is when is the QB known more for his legs than his arm going to be highly successful long term. I suspect that the answer to that question may well be never.

I always hate it when the first thing out of someones mouth when they talk about a given QB is his legs. To me thats a sign that you likely have a lacking QB.

 

[DFWJC]

Another point. Look at many of the good-to-great NFL quarterbacks ... John Elway, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton and Eli Manning, Brett Favre. What do they have in common? Many of them had fathers who were coaches, who knew the finer points of football and the quarterback position.

.

I won't get into the father figure talk, but I do agree that having a dad that is a coach tends to lead players more to the QB position if the have the skills.

Just off the top top of my head, I can name a Black NFL QB who had that: Jeff Blake. He was a coach on the field type guy who made a Pro Bowl or two, and had a very nice, long career. Also could throw a serious deep ball!

 

[CATCH17]

I agree on all accounts how ever I will say Leftwich not starting is not a shock I think the injuries have caught up to him. At the top of his career I agree the man was a very good QB

I agree that injuries caught up to him some but he can still pass as well as anyone in the league.

With a year off I would be all over him if I was an NFL GM.

A team like the Cardinals (because of Warners age), Bears, and anyone else with a crumby QB situation would upgrade mightily with him.

 

[DFWJC]

I always hate it when the first thing out of someones mouth when they talk about a given QB is his legs. To me thats a sign that you likely have a lacking QB.

But sometimes people pin someone as a running QB without noticing the whole package. There were bozos saying David Garrard was a running QB, when really he is much more like a Big Ben....taking what the D gives him and only occasionally running by design. Garrard is very accurate (and has a gun)but it took awhile for people to see that.

 

[Bleu Star]

Then consider black quarterbacks. How many black players/quarterbacks have father figures around who can teach them the nuiances of the game?

I see that first hand. My son used to play athletics in a predominantly black area. I had to coach him and other players, but there were very few black men available to help me. Mostly moms. Then I moved to a more affluent, predominantly white neighborhood, and most of the fathers (white) are coaches, assistant coaches, etc. We have no shortage of white men who are investing in their sons' sporting endeavors, practicing with them and trying to teach them the little things to make them better.

It's interesting to see and notice as it takes shape.

I know you don't believe this BS you spew.

I happen to be a black father that lives in a predominately white "affluent" area.... Yet my work takes me 45 minuters across a bridge and into a town that's mostly black. I have attended many sporting events in both areas. What do I see?

I see black, white, spanish, asian etc etc fathers contributing to the development of our children in the sporting arena where I live just 5 minutes from my house.

I play a sport near the area in which I work and through that avenue I am privy to a number of different youth football league throughout the town. Black fathers and black men in general are very active in fostering the development of our young boys on the football field. At least that's my experience. You might need to get out more.

Against my better judgment I responded to your post. I know I will regret doing so but what the hay...

 

[tyke1doe]

This is not a debate of color, it's a debate over style of quarterback.

The only black quarterback to win the super bowl was Doug Williams. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that he was more of a pure passer than he was a scrambling, running quarterback.

I don't think the issue is color, i.e., black quarterbacks don't succeed because they're black.

I agree it's the style of quarterback. But the question remains, why does one style seem to "fit" black quarterbacks and not another style. And that has to do, in many situations, with race as pertains to upbringing, training and opportunities.

I'm going to offer another controversial statement, though I stress I'm generalizing and that this statement does not apply to every situation.

For the most part, black kids get into athletics to stay out of trouble. In many urban youth programs, the goal isn't coaching or teaching the finer points of the game but to give kids an outlet other than the streets.

For the most part, white kids get into athletics because their fathers are chasing a dream and are students of the game. They want their children to be the best, and they overcompensate for their kids' lack of abilities through teaching them technique.

Personal example: I've already stated I moved from a mostly urban neighborhood and sports program to a neighborhood predominantly white. We play in the same football league with that urban neighborhood, so I still know many of the coaches and families.
I tell my friends and the coaches their team, by far, has more talented than any team in our league. Big guys, fast guys. But they never beat us. Do you know why? Because their coaches aren't students of the game like ours. Our coaches send scouts to video tape other teams the Saturdays we're not playing them. And our coaches (I'm an assistant coach) study film and devise strategies to beat other teams.
Since I'm the videographer for our team, I too breakdown film with my son, showing him proper technique, how he should attack angles, etc.
My friends in the other program tell me their coaches don't do that.
I tell them "That's why despite talent, you'll never beat our team." The top teams in our league all have coaches who are students of the game.

And you can best believe that this dedication is passed on to their children.

Just my take.