Hatcher

[AbeBeta]

No Abersonc said he has done very little and I gave one exampe of a big play.

That fumble return was right place right time and nothing more. Ellis made that play.

 

[DBoys]

It's tough to see for his position.

True but the LOS battle is what is very telling to me.

But, he doesn't make plays against the run, and it's been a long time since I saw him anywhere near the QB. I don't think there's a big disparity between him and Spears where you are forced to think "This guy should be starting.

He rarely plays against the run from what I have seen.

I also don't think a fumble recovery is a very big deal. That's more luck than anything. Sacks and forced fumbles are far bigger plays.

Fair enough what about the forced fumble he had against Adrian Peterson?

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Why? Hatcher has done very little all year. Spears at least knocks down a pass or gets a nice solo tackle each game.

You haven't been watching the same games as I have....

 

[superpunk]

Fair enough what about the forced fumble he had against Adrian Peterson?

Good play, I had forgotten about it. Spears has a FF too, though.

I just don't see Hatcher pushing Spears off the field, yet. Neither one really shines. Hatcher is good in the role he has now.

 

[theogt]

At this point...

Spears >>>>> Hatcher

Maybe at some point in the future Hatcher could supplant him, but my guess it that if Ferguson is healthy, Ratliff is our starting LDE next year.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Hatcher also forced Peterson to fumble deep in our territory the week following the Pats game. (Edit, dboys already got that.)

I guess it's all right to keep things the way they are, simply because it keeps Hatcher fresh for pass rushing. But I think Hatcher is probably already about as good an overall player, and has a lot more upside. It's kind of like our RB situation: The starter isn't the better player, but it works out okay.

I am disappointed in Spears, though. So much potential... But he just doesn't seem to want it.

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

The defensive line in the 3-4 scheme doesn't usually put up all kinds of stats, it is the linebackers that do. Spears doesn't have gaudy numbers but he has played well.

Canty is all over the place making plays, and he's the other DE. Phillips' 3-4 is designed to allow EVERY player to make plays. Spears even said at the beginning of the season that he was looking to get 6-8 sacks. Looks like Canty will get a lot closer to that than Spears will.

Don't get me wrong. I think Spears is a heck of a run stopper. It's just that, when you draft a DE that high, (#20 in 1st rd.), you expect him to be able to create a much better push on pass plays. I also feel that Ratliff is an all-around better DL than Spears, and will take his spot next year.

 

[LarryCanadian]

Spears and Hatcher is similar to Barber and Jones in that:

Two different body types. Spears is thicker, with a low center of gravity, strong in stance,and harder to move. Hatcher is leaner, quicker, and more agile.

They are a good rotation and complementary like Barber Jones.

Spears is more a run stuffer who holds the line and doesn't get shoved out of the hole. Hatcher is more of a pass rusher. Different strengths and used at different times and in different roles.

I think we need to keep this going, this rotation. Our Dline rotation, particularly the front 3 (and getting there with Spencer, Ellis, Ware too) is so valuable late in the game. We aren't collapsing late in games anymore. Our Defense hasn't broken late (except maybe the Patriots game, but I thought the offense blew it as much or more) this year. The freshness and quality depth is making our front 7 amazing. For the most part it is still very young too!

LarryCanadian

 

[Wood]

Spears is fat but not tough...he would get destroyed at NT. Dont let his size fool you...Spears is more of a finese player as he was at LSU. He has never been a tough physical player that wants to lock horns.

 

[superpunk]

Hatcher also forced Peterson to fumble deep in our territory the week following the Pats game. (Edit, dboys already got that.)

I guess it's all right to keep things the way they are, simply because it keeps Hatcher fresh for pass rushing. But I think Hatcher is probably already about as good an overall player, and has a lot more upside. It's kind of like our RB situation: The starter isn't the better player, but it works out okay.

I am disappointed in Spears, though. So much potential... But he just doesn't seem to want it.

I think the problem is pretty clear.

 

[TEK2000]

Spears is better against the run than Hatcher from what I've seen.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think the problem is pretty clear.

You sure you want to go down that road this year, SP? Sure looks like we have a lot of guys with a lot better stats this year than last...

But no, in this case I do blame the player. I think the tag he had out of LSU was pretty accurate: Lazy.

 

[theogt]

You sure you want to go down that road this year, SP? Sure looks like we have a lot of guys with a lot better stats this year than last...

But no, in this case I do blame the player. I think the tag he had out of LSU was pretty accurate: Lazy.

No kidding. I don't see why he'd even want to bring up that debate.

Dallas in 06 vs. 07 and San Diego in 06 vs. 07 ended that one.

 

[superpunk]

You sure you want to go down that road this year, SP? Sure looks like we have a lot of guys with a lot better stats this year than last...

But no, in this case I do blame the player. I think the tag he had out of LSU was pretty accurate: Lazy.

Absolutely I do. There were very specific players who were brought up as being hurt by the scheme. Marcus Spears, Bradie James, and Julius Jones were the foremost examples of players who were suddenly going to be unleashed, only NOONE believed that James would.

But new scheme, and suddenly Spears was going to be some freak, and Julius was going to start racking up 200 yard games like the "JuJo of old".

Guess what? **** ain't happened. I'm still waiting for more people to man up like kiladi here and say "Parcells and Zimmer weren't the problem. Our good players are still our good players, and the underachievers still underachieve. Schemes don't make players any better - players make players better. Schemes only put them in position to use that improvement better."

But I don't suppose that will ever happen. Not even if we bumped all the old threads where people wanted to convince me that Spears and Jones were going to be unleashed this year.

And we're 11-1 - so I don't really care. Meanwhile the guy noone believed in (including me), Bradie James, drops weight and is suddenly playing much better and faster.

 

[theogt]

Absolutely I do. There were very specific players who were brought up as being hurt by the scheme. Marcus Spears, Bradie James, and Julius Jones were the foremost examples of players who were suddenly going to be unleashed, only NOONE believed that James would.

But new scheme, and suddenly Spears was going to be some freak, and Julius was going to start racking up 200 yard games like the "JuJo of old".

Guess what? **** ain't happened. I'm still waiting for more people to man up like kiladi here and say "Parcells and Zimmer weren't the problem. Our good players are still our good players, and the underachievers still underachieve. Schemes don't make players any better - players make players better. Schemes only put them in position to use that improvement better."

But I don't suppose that will ever happen. Not even if we bumped all the old threads where people wanted to convince me that Spears and Jones were going to be unleashed this year.

And we're 11-1 - so I don't really care. Meanwhile the guy noone believed in (including me), Bradie James, drops weight and is suddenly playing much better and faster.

Who said Spears would be a freak? You're overreacting or just throwing up straw men. Most believed our defense would improve with a better scheme and it has. On top of that, Spears and Julius are actually playing better than they were last year. End of conversation.

 

[superpunk]

Who said Spears would be a freak? You're overreacting or just throwing up straw men. Most believed our defense would improve with a better scheme and it has. On top of that, Spears and Julius are actually playing better than they were last year. End of conversation.

No they're not. End of conversation.

What fun! Have a nice weekend, fellas.

 

[cowboyz]

i think hatcher better this game because he didn't have to play the run much. i suppose they ran at canty and ware so they could run play action. but that wasn't a good decision.

hatcher still struggles against the run.

barber jones is a good example. spears for 1st and 2nd down, then put hatcher in.

watching spears, he either can't anticipate the snap count or is just too slow. because you can see the snap and after 1sec then he'll just stand up, then move in place a little.

 

[Vintage]

I was one of the Bradie James needs to be replaced camp.

I was also one of the keep Greg Ellis because we need him.

I was right on Ellis; wrong on James. But not for a minute did I think that JJ or Spears would magically appear better. Spears has been solid; maybe good. But not the magical transformation many thought would happen. But I am not giving up on him either. It took Ty Warren 4 seasons to put it together in great fashion; its possible Spears can do the same.

But Canty has filled that role. He has become a very solid DE.

In fact, I wonder if Canty would have been our 1st rounder with Ware and Spears been a 4th rounder, if a lot of the complaints would have disapeared.

Of course, maybe drunkeness is affecting my thought process right now.

Reality of it is; we are 11-1.

 

[theogt]

People technically weren't wrong about Bradie James. He's not playing on 3rd downs. Nor will he likely ever play on 3rd downs absent injury to other players.

 

[Vintage]

People technically weren't wrong about Bradie James. He's not playing on 3rd downs. Nor will he likely ever play on 3rd downs absent injury to other players.

Don't get all techncial with me.

Not now.