Have we been too harsh on Costa?

[Hoofbite]

I would love it if Costa could play at the level he did in the Ravens game.

Sign an OT and Frederick could start the season at OG.

That'd be pretty much 3 OL spots improved over last year.

Sadly, I don't really think he's that type of guy on a weekly basis and who even knows if he can stay healthy.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I never said there was a conspiracy. I just said people. If you identify with that then so be it.

What did you think of his play in the 1.5 games he played last year?

I think he had a good game against the Ravens..

..and that being said, he's still terrible. Good game though, maybe he can parlay that one good NFL game so far in his career into some big money from some team in the CFL.

I know i'll be happy to not have him starting on my favorite team's OL anymore and seeing him bulldozed into Romo every play.

 

[Eskimo]

I happen to believe Costa is given way too much blame for issues on the OL in 2010.

We turned over basically 4 positions in 2011 with only Free staying in the same spot. Nagy was really bad to start the year and Koiser was really bad to end the year. In the middle of the season there was a stretch when Holland was in at LG and Kosier hadn't entirely fallen apart where I thought things looked decent. Then towards the end of the season Holland got hurt and Kosier's legs finally gave out and we went out with a whimper to end the season.

If you flash forward to 2012 he seemed much better for the 1.5 games he actually played.

I think Costa is still a decent player but I really think he should be moved to OG to save wear and tear on his back and you have to remember that he was always a converted OG who struggled a bit with snaps. I also think Frederick's best position may be OG. Bern's best position is Center.

So barring any acquisitions I think this may be our best OL grouping:

Smith Costa Bern Frederick Parnell

I just don't think Livings has the knees to get through a whole season anymore as he went through about two or three different injuries last year. I think he would need to take a paycut and come back as vet depth as a stopgap if anything. More ideally perhaps we sign Moore and go:

Smith Moore Bern/Costa Frederick Parnell

I still think Costa is a useful role player on this team and we can't fill every position with highly regarded young drafted players or high priced vets. You have to fill some of these positions cheap if you are going to have a roster with stars like Romo, Dez and Ware.

 

[Hoofbite]

I never said there was a conspiracy. I just said people. If you identify with that then so be it.

What did you think of his play in the 1.5 games he played last year?

FIFY.

 

[RSM94]

In a word, yes, fans are too harsh on Costa. He was lousy in 2011, but he showed tremendous improvement last year when healthy. IF he can stay healthy he can be a good center.......

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think a more accurate depiction is,

"He has sucked and until proven otherwise beyond a single game, he still sucks".

So you didn't think he played well in the Giants game or the first half of the Carolina game? Do you have a recollection of his play? tbh I really don't remember him at all from the Giants game.

It's close to indisputable that he was very good in the Ravens game. He was good in the Detroit game last year too.

He was all-world awful in the Patriots game that year as he played the role of Vince Wilfork's woman. He had a few games like that. Bad snaps and spent time on the ground. I get the downside.

That sounds inconsistent to me though. Last year in the time that he played I didn't notice bad play. I didn't notice him at all outside of the Baltimore game and stepping on the guys foot in the first half of the Carolina game. Against the Ravens it was obvious to look for him because we all of a sudden stopped sucking at running when he came back.

He has been a difference maker and he did more or less dominate matchups with Suh and Komeatu. I get the downside but I don't see why it's hard to see the upside.

 

[Hoofbite]

I happen to believe Costa is given way too much blame for issues on the OL in 2010.

We turned over basically 4 positions in 2011 with only Free staying in the same spot. Nagy was really bad to start the year and Koiser was really bad to end the year. In the middle of the season there was a stretch when Holland was in at LG and Kosier hadn't entirely fallen apart where I thought things looked decent. Then towards the end of the season Holland got hurt and Kosier's legs finally gave out and we went out with a whimper to end the season.

If you flash forward to 2012 he seemed much better for the 1.5 games he actually played.

I think Costa is still a decent player but I really think he should be moved to OG to save wear and tear on his back and you have to remember that he was always a converted OG who struggled a bit with snaps. I also think Frederick's best position may be OG. Bern's best position is Center.

So barring any acquisitions I think this may be our best OL grouping:

Smith Costa Bern Frederick Parnell

I just don't think Livings has the knees to get through a whole season anymore as he went through about two or three different injuries last year. I think he would need to take a paycut and come back as vet depth as a stopgap if anything. More ideally perhaps we sign Moore and go:

Smith Moore Bern/Costa Frederick Parnell

I still think Costa is a useful role player on this team and we can't fill every position with highly regarded young drafted players or high priced vets. You have to fill some of these positions cheap if you are going to have a roster with stars like Romo, Dez and Ware.

I don't think Bern has a shot at taking C over Frederick. Dallas seemed like they really wanted Frederick to be the C and the only way I think he moves to OG is if Costa can make a healthy push over the summer.

I'd much prefer your second lineup there with Moore. At least a solid center would give Romo some room to slide up in the pocket and evade some of the rush from RT.

Honestly though I think if Dallas goes with the 2TE primarily that they have to have a solid RT to allow both TEs the freedom to go out on routes more frequently than what we have seen in the past. There's no way the 2TE will be anything near what they hope if one of the TEs is blocking more than 60% of the time. It would also lessen the need for Escobar to develop his blocking skills in a hurry. If he can't block, I don't think the 2TE sets are going to be any more effective than they were with Bennett because it basically negates the advantage of forcing the defense to account for both TEs as both a receiving and blocking threat.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

FIFY.

Giants Baltimore and Carolina

 

[RoyTheHammer]

In a word, yes, fans are too harsh on Costa. He was lousy in 2011, but he showed tremendous improvement last year when healthy. IF he can stay healthy he can be a good center.......

Fans in this thread are really stretching the meaning of, and flat out misusing, the word "improvement".

That's my take..

 

[Ren]

Cook livings and Bernadeau lowered the bar, Costa isn't any better or even decent we just set a new low in bad OL play last season without him so he kinda looks better in comparison

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Cook livings and Bernadeau lowered the bar, Costa isn't any better or even decent we just set a new low in bad OL play last season without him so he kinda looks better in comparison

Livings is a much better interior OL'man than Costa will ever be, imo.

Livings is the only one of the 3 from last year that i'd be fine with starting again this year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I happen to believe Costa is given way too much blame for issues on the OL in 2010.

We turned over basically 4 positions in 2011 with only Free staying in the same spot. Nagy was really bad to start the year and Koiser was really bad to end the year. In the middle of the season there was a stretch when Holland was in at LG and Kosier hadn't entirely fallen apart where I thought things looked decent. Then towards the end of the season Holland got hurt and Kosier's legs finally gave out and we went out with a whimper to end the season.

If you flash forward to 2012 he seemed much better for the 1.5 games he actually played.

I think Costa is still a decent player but I really think he should be moved to OG to save wear and tear on his back and you have to remember that he was always a converted OG who struggled a bit with snaps. I also think Frederick's best position may be OG. Bern's best position is Center.

So barring any acquisitions I think this may be our best OL grouping:

Smith Costa Bern Frederick Parnell

I just don't think Livings has the knees to get through a whole season anymore as he went through about two or three different injuries last year. I think he would need to take a paycut and come back as vet depth as a stopgap if anything. More ideally perhaps we sign Moore and go:

Smith Moore Bern/Costa Frederick Parnell

I still think Costa is a useful role player on this team and we can't fill every position with highly regarded young drafted players or high priced vets. You have to fill some of these positions cheap if you are going to have a roster with stars like Romo, Dez and Ware.

Frederick was better in 2011 at OG than he was in 2012 at C but he didn't have Konz and Zeitler on that 2012 line and their replacements were nowhere near as good. One of the things I noticed is that the edge runs never seemed to get any push. Most of the time when that line got push it was them running right up the gut.

You watch that OSU game from 2011 though and you see Zeitler and to a lesser degree Konz pancaking guys alongside Frederick's wins. I wonder how much of his diminished play was due to the significantly diminished play around him.

I'm curious to see what they want to do with his weight too. He was 312 at the combine but supposedly he was pushing 345 when he was playing last year. He moved pretty well at the combine.

 

[Hoofbite]

So you didn't think he played well in the Giants game or the first half of the Carolina game? Do you have a recollection of his play? tbh I really don't remember him at all from the Giants game.

Who would? He played 3 downs and went to the trainers table. He was out after the first series.

It's close to indisputable that he was very good in the Ravens game. He was good in the Detroit game last year too.

He was all-world awful in the Patriots game that year as he played the role of Vince Wilfork's woman. He had a few games like that. Bad snaps and spent time on the ground. I get the downside.

IIRC the Cardinals basically followed the Patriots plan and walked guys right to the center of the line and just kicked the piss out of the group of them. The entire line sucked and I haven't the full recollection to say who was the worst.

That sounds inconsistent to me though. Last year in the time that he played I didn't notice bad play. I didn't notice him at all outside of the Baltimore game and stepping on the guys foot in the first half of the Carolina game. Against the Ravens it was obvious to look for him because we all of a sudden stopped sucking at running when he came back.

Yeah but that's 1 game and no matter how good it may have looked, it's not nearly enough to build confidence after what people saw the year prior.

Perhaps the Ravens were struggling at that time. In the games both before and after the Dallas game they were slaughtered on the ground as well.

KC: 214 Yards Rushing
DAL: 227 Yards Rushing
HOU: 187 Yards Rushing

Perhaps coming off the bye week did the team some good. Who knows really, it's just 1 game so there's nothing that anyone can really point to and say, "Ah HA! That's the reason right there". The running game didn't look as good the following week against Carolina.

Like I said, I would love to believe it was all Phil Costa but that's just too much of a stretch.

He has been a difference maker and he did more or less dominate matchups with Suh and Komeatu. I get the downside but I don't see why it's hard to see the upside.

And I get the upside (cause he did look better against Baltimore) but I don't see why it's so easy to ignore the downside.

He is what he is. A guy who really struggled his first year and then came back with a solid game, maybe game and a half.....I'll take a look at the Carolina game. I can't even remember it. I missed a couple of first halves cause I was working on some things late the night before.

 

[Hoofbite]

Giants Baltimore and Carolina

1 series never has been and never will be a full game.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

Of all the games he played he flashed competence in maybe 10% of the games,,,,, that is nowhere near acceptable. Take him to camp and give him a chance to show where he's at, but I wouldn't bet 50 cents on him winning any starting role without several freak injuries occurring.

 

[dools]

Just put Frederick at center and lets see if Costa can beat out Bernadeau at RG. I love having a cerebral player at C. And mayber we will see a few QB sneaks this year.

 

[21Savage]

He barely played and most everyone has agreed the Ravens game was much improved.

What else is there to look at?

Well, there is the last 6 games of the 2011 season.

It wasn't up to the level of the Ravens game but it was a stark improvement from the start of the 2011 season.

 

[21Savage]

Of all the games he played he flashed competence in maybe 10% of the games,,,,, that is nowhere near acceptable. Take him to camp and give him a chance to show where he's at, but I wouldn't bet 50 cents on him winning any starting role without several freak injuries occurring.

But what if a huge portion of that 10% occurred in his most recent play? Do you just throw away the improvement curve?

People forget that linemen need time to grow and adjust. The player he's most compared to, Saturday, was cut in his first training camp and took a while to get into the lineup.

 

[burmafrd]

People have emotionally invested themselves in not liking him. They don't want to let that go regardless of how well he played in his limited time last year.

Instead it's, "he has sucked, he does suck and he will always suck.'

and SOME people are very emotionally invested in LIKING him.

As usual you left out part of the situation.

Bottom line is that the only complete game he played in was against a D that got worked both the previous week and the next week after us.

So that game means VERY little.

And the so called improvement in 2011?

Going from absolutely horrible to just bad is not what I would brag about.

AND all this BS about needing someone next to him to make him play better-

IF HE WAS GOOD ENOUGH he would not need that. Goes for Costa, Free, anyone. Even Romo can show he can get it done without a o line SOMETIMES.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

and SOME people are very emotionally invested in LIKING him.

As usual you left out part of the situation.

Bottom line is that the only complete game he played in was against a D that got worked both the previous week and the next week after us.

So that game means VERY little.

And the so called improvement in 2011?

Going from absolutely horrible to just bad is not what I would brag about.

AND all this BS about needing someone next to him to make him play better-

IF HE WAS GOOD ENOUGH he would not need that. Goes for Costa, Free, anyone. Even Romo can show he can get it done without a o line SOMETIMES.

I don't try and minimize every bad thing that he has done and grandstand on the good. You just now minimized the good he did and then made gross generalizations and used hyperbole to degrade him.

I thought he played well against Komeatu and Suh but I also made a point to recognize the abysmal play against like Wilfork. I see the upside and the downside.

Ever heard of the concept of objectivity?