Have we been too harsh on Costa?

[FiveRings]

I agree with OP. I've been saying since we drafted Frederick, let's see Costa at guard and the competition with the rest of the guys will award the best man the position

 

[jjktkk]

Too much angst over Costa in here imo. The drafting of Frederick, covers any potential health problems Costa has. If Costa is helthy, he competes for a starters role, or backup role, along with Bernadeau, Leary, etc...

 

[Shinywalrus]

If the question is, "Are we better off with Costa/Frederick" at some combination at center and right guard than we are with Costa/Bernadeau or Bernadeau/Frederick, the answer should be a resounding yes.

Are there people out there who think Bernadeau is better than Costa? Please identify yourselves.

 

[Wood]

issue with costa is that he was undersized and had dreaded short arms. His only way to make it was to basically become an extreme power lifter so he could atleast anchor at C. However, his back is already giving out due to intense power lifting and those degenerative/chronic issues only subside when he stops training on professional level. I think he retires within 2 years. I like the guy...he went to my high school but he was replaced.

 

[21Savage]

If the question is, "Are we better off with Costa/Frederick" at some combination at center and right guard than we are with Costa/Bernadeau or Bernadeau/Frederick, the answer should be a resounding yes.

Are there people out there who think Bernadeau is better than Costa? Please identify yourselves.

As a RG? No question! He's way better than Costa can be.

As a C, however, I expect Costa to be one our top 2 and I think he should start along with Frederick. But I actually think Frederick should be replacing Livings not him. Bernadeau was a better player than Livings last year.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I wouldn't use a Sharpie to write in anyone's name at either C or RG.

You've got a lot of folks who will be competing for those 2 positions:

Bern
Cook
Kowolski
Costa
Leary
Frederick

We'll see how they all compete in August and let the riggers of training camp sort'em out.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

As a RG? No question! He's way better than Costa can be.

As a C, however, I expect Costa to be one our top 2 and I think he should start along with Frederick. But I actually think Frederick should be replacing Livings not him. Bernadeau was a better player than Livings last year.

Hmmm.

No.

There no statistical proof that I've found that showed Bern was better than Livings. And by most arm-chair evaluationists- they've said the same.

I don't see Frederick at LG where he's going to have to move laterally further and more often than at RG. That doesn't play to his strength.

 

[Risen Star]

Oh boy. That time of year again.

Phil Costa is one of the worst starting players I've ever seen here. I'm not talking about backups who had to play because of injury, but penciled in starters.

He can not play and that won't ever change.

 

[21Savage]

Oh boy. That time of year again.

Phil Costa is one of the worst starting players I've ever seen here. I'm not talking about backups who had to play because of injury, but penciled in starters.

He can not play and that won't ever change.

You kind of lost credibility on this one when you attacked a poster for claiming Costa was the best linemen out of both teams in that Ravens game. All for the analysts to say the same thing in the coming week.

You don't watch the games and just go off of some feeling. You are not unbiased when it comes to this discussion.

 

[Angus]

after watching the games over again, and watching the games when costa was healthy, yes, I think we are being too harsh. When he was in there, those were the games that are running production was actually pretty productive. saying that, I think that you leave Frederick at center and move costa at guard.

This.

 

[Eskimo]

[/B]
Who would? He played 3 downs and went to the trainers table. He was out
Perhaps the Ravens were struggling at that time. In the games both before and after the Dallas game they were slaughtered on the ground as well.

KC: 214 Yards Rushing
DAL: 227 Yards Rushing
HOU: 187 Yards Rushing

The one thing I'll say about this is KC and Houston are actually quite good running teams with some of the better RBs in the game between Jamaal Charles and Foster.

I do think those were NFL caliber players he was blocking that game against Baltimore and I also know that he played a great game and was the best OL on the field that day.

It is true that we didn't get a chance to see if he could sustain it consistently but no one is going to play that well game after game unless they are All-Pros. I think his game showed major improvement from his first year as a starter to his second year which is what you expect. I also know his short arms will always be an obstacle he'll have to struggle to overcome. People focus on this and ignore things like his strength and athleticism which are both top notch for a 315 pound OL. He is also a determined competitor who appears to be getting better and better which is what you want to see in a young player new to the league instead of the stall in growth that you see in most guys who are out of the league in 2-3 years.

The biggest worry I have with Costa is his back. He missed about a couple of months of activity because of it which suggests a fairly significant problem. What we don't know is if the spine went onto successful healing or if there is a major residual weakness. It was wise of the FO to have alternatives on the roster available for this year including the prize Frederick as well as holdovers such as Bern who played his best game at Center, Costa, the Killer Kowalski and Arkin/Cook.

My dark horse is always the Killer. I think the favorite is Frederick. But the thing we don't know is who is the best group of 5 since that may mean moving the best player off Center. There are a lot of pegs that can fill in a lot of different holes and it'll be ineresting to see how it all plays out.

 

[MapleLeaf]

...suspicious of putting Costa at Guard.

My impression of Phil was has trouble with reach blocks, slow with first three steps, clearly has had back issues.

Now we want him in a position where he will initiate some plays by pulling and then having to find his assignment in space?

Making this guy reach block is not putting him in a place to be successful IMO.

Further more he could delay timing if his feet prove to be as slow with 4th to 25th steps as his first three steps are.

I just never thought of Phil Costa being an agile blocker.

Let's be honest. If Larry Allen is our gold standard for guard, and the forum constantly gushes about the foot speed he displayed at a young lineman, what makes anyone think this is a similar skill set Phil Costa has?

Phil's best position may be center.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I wouldn't use a Sharpie to write in anyone's name at either C or RG.

You've got a lot of folks who will be competing for those 2 positions:

Bern
Cook
Kowolski
Costa
Leary
Frederick

We'll see how they all compete in August and let the riggers of training camp sort'em out.

Yeah I find the argument kinda boring at this point, cause we aren't even close to camp, don't know who we will sign as a FA, and don't know how each player is improving this offseason.

I would prefer Frederick being plugged in at center, and everyone else having to fit in around him cause as a rookie the adjustment would be alot easier for him to learn that one position. Also, long term Frederick will be the center and the rest of the interior are JAGs, so they should have to fit around him and not the other way around.

Let our scrubs fight it out for RG, and leave Frederick alone at center for the next decade.

 

[Eskimo]

Yeah I find the argument kinda boring at this point, cause we aren't even close to camp, don't know who we will sign as a FA, and don't know how each player is improving this offseason.

I would prefer Frederick being plugged in at center, and everyone else having to fit in around him cause as a rookie the adjustment would be alot easier for him to learn that one position. Also, long term Frederick will be the center and the rest of the interior are JAGs, so they should have to fit around him and not the other way around.

Let our scrubs fight it out for RG, and leave Frederick alone at center for the next decade.

I think the question has to at least partly be is he a better OG or a Center. The tape suggests he may be a better Guard even though he is a good Center. They'll have to see how it works out in camp.

We all have to remember the goal is to put the best unit that you can. It is not necessarily to put each player in the position he likes best or plays best.

There is a lot of positional flexibility with all the different guys who can play Center on the team: Costa, Frederick, Bern, Killer, Cook and Arkin. Then there is Livings who was our best OG early in the season but is older and broke down at the end of the year. Then there is anyone who we might get in FA.

I am glad to have more options and the possibility of having one superior player on the inside to build the OL around.

I am excited to see how it all winds up but another 2 months before we really get a look at the team.

 

[Shinywalrus]

Bernadeau was a better player than Livings last year.

I need to call the FDA to report my local Popeye's. They are clearly putting hallucinogens in the chicken, because I am seeing absolutely crazy things right now.

 

[theogt]

If the question is, "Are we better off with Costa/Frederick" at some combination at center and right guard than we are with Costa/Bernadeau or Bernadeau/Frederick, the answer should be a resounding yes.

Are there people out there who think Bernadeau is better than Costa? Please identify yourselves.

:laugh2:

 

[NorthTexan95]

Garrett said he wants the five best linemen starting. We'll see how it turns out. All we know for sure is that Smith will be at left tackle.

Frederick is exactly the type of center I want. Big, physical, able to handle nose tackles. If it was up to me I'd probably stick Frederick at center and mover everyone else around.

 

[CyberB0b]

Costa is an alright backup. Not sure if Frederick can beat him out, though.

 

[jobberone]

As a RG? No question! He's way better than Costa can be.

As a C, however, I expect Costa to be one our top 2 and I think he should start along with Frederick. But I actually think Frederick should be replacing Livings not him. Bernadeau was a better player than Livings last year.

Hmmm.

No.

There no statistical proof that I've found that showed Bern was better than Livings. And by most arm-chair evaluationists- they've said the same.

I don't see Frederick at LG where he's going to have to move laterally further and more often than at RG. That doesn't play to his strength.

This.

I wouldn't use a Sharpie to write in anyone's name at either C or RG.

You've got a lot of folks who will be competing for those 2 positions:

Bern
Cook
Kowolski
Costa
Leary
Frederick

We'll see how they all compete in August and let the riggers of training camp sort'em out.

And this.

 

[Eskimo]

Garrett said he wants the five best linemen starting. We'll see how it turns out. All we know for sure is that Smith will be at left tackle.

Frederick is exactly the type of center I want. Big, physical, able to handle nose tackles. If it was up to me I'd probably stick Frederick at center and mover everyone else around.

But what if he is an elite OG but only a good Center.

What if there is someone else who can play a good Center but a below average OG.

The OL's coach is to get the best group of 5 players out there. So it may not be as simple as putting the best guy at Center and filling the other positions with who is leftover. The goal has to be the make the best unit.