Have we been too harsh on Costa?

[JohnnyHopkins]

I hope that I am 100% wrong about Costa, because if he turns into a quality Center then Frederick can man a guard spot.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I think the question has to at least partly be is he a better OG or a Center. The tape suggests he may be a better Guard even though he is a good Center. They'll have to see how it works out in camp.

We all have to remember the goal is to put the best unit that you can. It is not necessarily to put each player in the position he likes best or plays best.

There is a lot of positional flexibility with all the different guys who can play Center on the team: Costa, Frederick, Bern, Killer, Cook and Arkin. Then there is Livings who was our best OG early in the season but is older and broke down at the end of the year. Then there is anyone who we might get in FA.

I am glad to have more options and the possibility of having one superior player on the inside to build the OL around.

I am excited to see how it all winds up but another 2 months before we really get a look at the team.

I understand your point here of course, and if Frederick is a better OG, then by all means put him there. Now I would rather have him at center, but since he is the most talented of the bunch, they should have to move around based on Frederick not the other way around.

That said, I really hope his best position is center, cause it sure would be nice to be able to build a line around a 1st round center and LT, like the Jets and Browns have done.

 

[Chuck 54]

Original question? NO

Costa has improved; Costa has had some bright spots.

But Costa does not open holes in run game, does get pushed back at times, and has periods of very erratic shotgun snaps when Romo doesn't know where the ball will be.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

There's a vocal minority that screamed "Costa sucks" and pointed to all the bad snaps (which is a fallacy excluding the Washington game, where they were warned about simulating the cadence after the fact) and a few really bad games like NE. They screamed it loud enough and long enough that people started believing it.

Whenever asked to quantify their view, their only response was "because I say so", not because they took the time to grade OL or anything.

The team obviously thought they were full of excrement because they had every intention of Costa playing the '12 season.

The Cowboys have made every indication that they still like Costa or they wouldn't have restructured him.

The opening day OL is going to be Smith, Livings, Costa, Frederick and Free provided Free takes a pay cut or Parnell if he doesn't.

 

[burmafrd]

:laugh2:

since you claim Costa will be All Pro you are therefore ineligible for this threat do to extreme insanity.

 

[burmafrd]

There's a vocal minority that screamed "Costa sucks" and pointed to all the bad snaps (which is a fallacy excluding the Washington game, where they were warned about simulating the cadence after the fact) and a few really bad games like NE. They screamed it loud enough and long enough that people started believing it.

Whenever asked to quantify their view, their only response was "because I say so", not because they took the time to grade OL or anything.

The team obviously thought they were full of excrement because they had every intention of Costa playing the '12 season.

The Cowboys have made every indication that they still like Costa or they wouldn't have restructured him.

The opening day OL is going to be Smith, Livings, Costa, Frederick and Free provided Free takes a pay cut or Parnell if he doesn't.

actually more people criticize Costa then praise him. Since you have not figured this out yet, anything else you say is not admissible.

The Boys once liked McQ and the proctologist.
The Boys thought Alan Ball was a real starter
The Boys though Phil Costa was ready to start in 2011.

need any more?

 

[ElGatoGrande]

But what if a huge portion of that 10% occurred in his most recent play? Do you just throw away the improvement curve?

People forget that linemen need time to grow and adjust. The player he's most compared to, Saturday, was cut in his first training camp and took a while to get into the lineup.

you're trying to imply a positive trend when there is no evidence of one.

He will get his chance in TC.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

There's a vocal minority that screamed "Costa sucks" and pointed to all the bad snaps (which is a fallacy excluding the Washington game, where they were warned about simulating the cadence after the fact) and a few really bad games like NE. They screamed it loud enough and long enough that people started believing it.

Whenever asked to quantify their view, their only response was "because I say so", not because they took the time to grade OL or anything.

The team obviously thought they were full of excrement because they had every intention of Costa playing the '12 season.

The Cowboys have made every indication that they still like Costa or they wouldn't have restructured him.

The opening day OL is going to be Smith, Livings, Costa, Frederick and Free provided Free takes a pay cut or Parnell if he doesn't.

still clinging to your argument I see. So, if they're so happy with Costa why draft a center in the first round? Did Costa suddenly get old and near retirement overnight?

 

[Falcon554]

The man had 2 back injuries last year, no telling if he can even play with his back

 

[Idgit]

still clinging to your argument I see. So, if they're so happy with Costa why draft a center in the first round? Did Costa suddenly get old and near retirement overnight?

If they're not happy with him, why extend him?

They pretty obviously view the C position as very important, and they covered their bases by adding a player with the flexibility to play more than one interior OL position.

Remember, this was the last difference maker in the draft capable of giving them that interior 'base' they keep talking about. He was the first C taken.

The reality is, people have been needlessly dramatic about Phil Costa dating back to his botched shotgun snaps. The reality is, he was a young player who developed from a very green player into a decent starter for us by the end of 2011. He played well in very limited action in 2012, included great play against BAL, but he also played well in very limited time against the Giants and then into the 2nd quarter before he dislocated his ankle against CAR. Well enough for the team to extend him, anyway. He was, without a doubt, trending upwards, and if you didn't see it, it's because you missed it for whatever reason.

That said, he is what he is: a capable starter whose position can hopefully be improved through some competition. It's not that hard to conceive that a first round pick should be able to displace him. Or that he could, in turn, find some success at OG if he gets beat out at OC. But whatever weird loathing has people proclaiming him the worst player ever is just bizarre overstatement and part of the OL bashing pass time we have around here every offseason.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

If they're not happy with him, why extend him?

They pretty obviously view the C position as very important, and they covered their bases by adding a player with the flexibility to play more than one interior OL position.

Remember, this was the last difference maker in the draft capable of giving them that interior 'base' they keep talking about. He was the first C taken.

The reality is, people have been needlessly dramatic about Phil Costa dating back to his botched shotgun snaps. The reality is, he was a young player who developed from a very green player into a decent starter for us by the end of 2011. He played well in very limited action in 2012, included great play against BAL, but he also played well in very limited time against the Giants and then into the 2nd quarter before he dislocated his ankle against CAR. Well enough for the team to extend him, anyway. He was, without a doubt, trending upwards, and if you didn't see it, it's because you missed it for whatever reason.

That said, he is what he is: a capable starter whose position can hopefully be improved through some competition. It's not that hard to conceive that a first round pick should be able to displace him. Or that he could, in turn, find some success at OG if he gets beat out at OC. But whatever weird loathing has people proclaiming him the worst player ever is just bizarre overstatement and part of the OL bashing pass time we have around here every offseason.

Ha,,, after having their collective nose rubbed in excrement all year long via the predicted OL implosion of the worst OL in football it's interesting to note that denial doesn't have a shelf life, it instead accumulates nuances.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

People are so starved for decent offensive line play in Dallas that they see random flashes of decency from a JAG like Phil Costa and fool themselves into thinking there's something there.

The fact on Phil Costa is that he is on the bottom third of centers in the NFL and frankly, dangerously close to the very bottom. Add that to his back problems and it is beyond foolish to rely on him for anything other than depth next season.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

actually more people criticize Costa then praise him. Since you have not figured this out yet, anything else you say is not admissible.

The Boys once liked McQ and the proctologist.
The Boys thought Alan Ball was a real starter
The Boys though Phil Costa was ready to start in 2011.

need any more?

That's a valid point.

But keep in mind that McQ and Proctor where never considered starters.

Ball was given the starter's spot at FS for one season, the club realized the mistake and that was that.

Costa was the starter in 2011 and was the starter for 2012.

Now that doesn't mean he's going to be a starter in 2013 at either center or guard, but the club has retained him on the roster for another season.

Costa is on an entirely different plain than any of those that you mentioned.

 

[Idgit]

Ha,,, after having their collective nose rubbed in excrement all year long via the predicted OL implosion of the worst OL in football it's interesting to note that denial doesn't have a shelf life, it instead accumulates nuances.

What in the world are you talking about? That you were proven *dead* wrong about Costa in very limited action last season is something you're now crowing about? Or are you taking a victory lap about the 'implosion' of the 'worst OL in football' when neither of those things have the benefit of being even remotely true?

This is what happens, EGG, when you get all your information from an echo chamber formed by a handful of talking heads on www.cowboyszone.com who have short term memories on top of the fact that they don't really understand OL play to begin with. And who are absolutely feckless about shifting their arguments regarding what they were actually complaining about from week to week to week depending upon what the whipping boy of the moment happens to be. Reading some of these threads is like watching 50 First Dates only if they replaced the annoying Drew Barrymore character with a half-dozen yorkshire terriers. Non-stop absent-minded barking at nothing that starts over from scratch every day of the offseason without any regard for what's actually going on with the team.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's a valid point.

But keep in mind that McQ and Proctor where never considered starters.

Ball was given the starter's spot at FS for one season, the club realized the mistake and that was that.

Costa was the starter in 2011 and was the starter for 2012.

Now that doesn't mean he's going to be a starter in 2013 at either center or guard, but the club has retained him on the roster for another season.

Costa is on an entirely different plain than any of those that you mentioned.

I don't remember a groundswell of support when Gurode was cut in TC and Nagy, Kowalski and Costa were forced into action.

I don't remember people liking Proctor and McQuistin. What I remember were gifs of Proctor not getting off the line at the snap and getting dominated at the LOS being spammed for over a year. Proctor and McQuistan were held up as the shining example of failure until Columbo, Kosier and Davis were brought in.

In 2009 in his few starts, Ball played adequately. I don't recall him being touted as 'good.' I remember remembrances of Dixon, Scott, and Davis too.

 

[sureletsrace]

Without reading through the thread, yes, many have.

I personally have defended Costa many times and I see a lot of potential. He has been acceptable in pass blocking, and has been an animal as a run blocker.

I encourage the Costa haters to rewatch the game from last year vs. the Ravens. He was consistently blowing people off the ball and moving the line of scrimmage. If he can stay healthy, he is a more than acceptable starting center.

With all that being said, I want to see Frederick beat Costa for the starting center job.