Have we improved the pass rush?

[unionjack8]

Bottom line.
We better HOPE so because if not good QBs will rip us apart....
I think we have 7/8/9 guys that are good and the depth is ok but we need 2 of them to become great......

 

[Kaiser]

I also think Collins with one year removed from his foot injury should be included. He had the same injury that took Dez out for a season.

Agree. Most people look at the new players coming in but usually the improvement comes from young players that improve in their 2nd and 3rd years. Irving was that player last year and DLaw the year before.

Collins got very little training camp time and played well as a rookie, as a second year player he should be a lot better. Irving and Tapper could improve a lot over last year. DLaw and Tyrone Crawford played through injuries and if 100%, could be way improved. Thornton had an off year last year also.

The biggest improvement over last year could easily be from the players who were already on the roster.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Not until we really need it.

Like when it's 3rd and 20 with 10 seconds left, Rodgers has all day to throw, we get ripped for 35 yards and lose the game and season is over. Remember that? I don't want to keep watching that.

Last season is last season.

Also give Rodgers some credit.

He ain't exactly chopped liver.

 

[Idgit]

It was a minor improvement to the DL.

I also think we're going to be blitzing DBs more this year, like we did v. GB. And probably more from the WIL, too, since Marinelli has done that elsewhere a fair bit and we're finally getting pretty flexible in terms of our personnel.

 

[Macnalty]

Here's what caught Dave Helman's attention the first week of camp:

David Helman: I’m about to state the obvious if you’ve been following along with our coverage, but this new-look secondary has had an impressive start to camp. We knew going in that all eyes were going to be on Chidobe Awuzie, the No. 60 overall pick in the draft. So far, he is delivering on the hype with a pair of interceptions and another pair of deflected passes in just two padded practices. It’s only two real days of work, but it’s exciting to see him moving around the formation, handling different duties – and handling them well. Fellow rookie Marquez White is also off to a strong start, as he has looked physical and unafraid in one-on-one matchups as well as full-team repetitions. With all of that said, we haven’t even seen Jourdan Lewis yet – so his arrival will be another fun development to watch. Obviously, the rookies are the big talking point, but the veterans deserve some mention, too. Anthony Brown nabbed the first interception of training camp when he picked off Dak Prescott on Thursday morning. Orlando Scandrick also had a really strong first day of practice, as he got the better of Dez Bryant on multiple occasions. It’s incredibly early, but it’s encouraging to see a strong start from a position group that’s facing a lot of scrutiny heading into 2017.


A secondary that can actually cover will help make the defensive line that much better.

If we see this same kind of result in one of the pre-season games it will much more meaningful. I am sure they are still not reacting, having to think on their feet is not optimum. Jambing the receiver at the line and then covering is a good indicator granted, the games are for confirming. I am a little concerned that our #1 pick is struggling he is behind Collins progression from last year.

 

[MichaelValentino]

This team is built offensively.

Always has been.

The organization has always worked under the belief that defensively..

players have to support one or two players on defense who are the "war daddy's".

This goes back to Bob Lilly and Randy White, Charles Haley and Demarcus Ware.

I don't know Red. I think that was true during Ware's career and partly true when Haley was here, but despite Lilly and White being two of the greatest defensive players in NFL history, they had talent all around them in the late 60s to late 70s.

Lilly played alongside Jethro Pugh, whose career was played in the shadows of not only Lilly at RDT but two other HOFers who played LDT - Olsen and Greene. George Andrie was one of the best DEs in team history and was highly decorated with All Pro and Pro Bowl selections. Jordan was a great MLB who, unfortunately, played in the premier era of 4-3 MLBs (Butkus, Nitschke, Lambert, Nobis, Lanier), or he would have been more highly decorated. Howley was great and is criminally overlooked for HOF consideration. The secondary was manned by All Pros like Renfro and Green and, for a short time, Adderley. Lilly was the war daddy only because he just may have been the greatest interior lineman in NFL history, but those Cowboys teams were stacked. The '70-'71 defenses were great.

White played on one of the best front fours ever with Martin and Jones at end, both of whom topped 100 sacks in their careers. Harris and Waters were arguably the top safety tandem in the NFC, if not the entire NFL, for several years in the late 70s. Breunig and Lewis were good players, better than support players to White, the top war daddy on those teams. The corners were so-so other than Renfro at the tail end of his career. Hollywood could have been a HOFer but he wasted incredible God-given talent. The '77 defense may have been the best in team history, and one of the greatest ever (Martin and White combined for 39 sacks in 14 games that year). It was pretty close to the Steelers' defenses of the mid-70s, which were just flat out loaded at every level.

Obviously, this current team does not have a Lilly or a White, and it does not have the kind of Pro Bowl talent at every level of the defense that Lilly's and White's teams had either. If only. With our offense, they'd be prohibitive favorites to beat anybody in the SB.

 

[gmoney112]

It was a minor improvement to the DL.

I also think we're going to be blitzing DBs more this year, like we did v. GB. And probably more from the WIL, too, since Marinelli has done that elsewhere a fair bit and we're finally getting pretty flexible in terms of our personnel.

Awuzie and Heath can both blitz the QB, we know he likes to send Scandrick. Heath should have had a strip on Rodgers if not for some crazy Herculean grip.

Improvement means a measurable difference than last year's DL. In this case, well yeah we did. Will it be good enough? We'll see.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Yes

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I don't know Red. I think that was true during Ware's career and partly true when Haley was here, but despite Lilly and White being two of the greatest defensive players in NFL history, they had talent all around them in the late 60s to late 70s.

Lilly played alongside Jethro Pugh, whose career was played in the shadows of not only Lilly at RDT but two other HOFers who played LDT - Olsen and Greene. George Andrie was one of the best DEs in team history and was highly decorated with All Pro and Pro Bowl selections. Jordan was a great MLB who, unfortunately, played in the premier era of 4-3 MLBs (Butkus, Nitschke, Lambert, Nobis, Lanier), or he would have been more highly decorated. Howley was great and is criminally overlooked for HOF consideration. The secondary was manned by All Pros like Renfro and Green and, for a short time, Adderley. Lilly was the war daddy only because he just may have been the greatest interior lineman in NFL history, but those Cowboys teams were stacked. The '70-'71 defenses were great.

White played on one of the best front fours ever with Martin and Jones at end, both of whom topped 100 sacks in their careers. Harris and Waters were arguably the top safety tandem in the NFC, if not the entire NFL, for several years in the late 70s. Breunig and Lewis were good players, better than support players to White, the top war daddy on those teams. The corners were so-so other than Renfro at the tail end of his career. Hollywood could have been a HOFer but he wasted incredible God-given talent. The '77 defense may have been the best in team history, and one of the greatest ever (Martin and White combined for 39 sacks in 14 games that year). It was pretty close to the Steelers' defenses of the mid-70s, which were just flat out loaded at every level.

Obviously, this current team does not have a Lilly or a White, and it does not have the kind of Pro Bowl talent at every level of the defense that Lilly's and White's teams had either. If only. With our offense, they'd be prohibitive favorites to beat anybody in the SB.

That was refreshing to read. So many great players and you only talked defense

 

[Typhus]

To the OP...
Yes,, this improved, more athletic, secondary has already improved the pass rush.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Not until we really need it.

Like when it's 3rd and 20 with 10 seconds left, Rodgers has all day to throw, we get ripped for 35 yards and lose the game and season is over. Remember that? I don't want to keep watching that.

Let's not forget that Green Bay got away with an obviously ridiculous hold. Otherwise, that pass might not have happened.

 

[Preoccupied]

do we think our pass rush versus Rodgers will be appreciably better?
We will have to wait and see

And for remainder of the year?
Refer to previous answer

 

[gimmesix]

The suspensions will be over by the time they play the Packers.

By that point there we'll see what sort of contributions Tapper, Lawrence, Moore & Charlton can bring.

I'm not expecting "all-good" nor "all-bad".

I don't think it will be that dire.

I think a healthy Lawrence and Crawford can definitely help the pass rush step up, even if we have to rely on Crawford at end. That being said, I don't expect them to stay healthy throughout the season. Hopefully, they can do it, though, until the suspensions are over and by then there are some other players who are ready to step up. Irving did it in spots last year. Mayowa had a good run near the end of the season.

It seems to me, especially at the end spots, this is what Dallas is trying to do. You've got to battle through the inevitable injuries and the best way to do it is with quality depth. I can't say at this point that we've got it, but it's possible since behind Lawrence and Crawford, we have Mayowa, who had six sacks last year, first-round pick Charlton and Tapper, who has the measurables to excel at end. Throw in Irving, who is still improving, and Moore when they get back from suspension ... and that's seven players who can contribute at end. If we can find three or four from that bunch that get on rolls, then the pressure should come. And that's not even considering what Collins might can bring from the inside with a year under his belt.

I'm a cautious fan by nature so I do want to see it before I'll believe it, but there are some reasons for at least guarded optimism.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Stephen said this was offseason priority number one. We added Taco, D. Moore, Paea, and have a healthy Tapper. The suspensions suck. But looking at week 5, when we are past them and full strength, do we think our pass rush versus Rodgers will be appreciably better? And for remainder of the year?

We have improved the passrush because we got rid of Mo, Carr, Wilcox, and Church - players that can't cover or stay healthy. We replaced them with DBs that break to the ball well, athletic and are ball hawks that can cover tightly either man to man or zone. Teams won't have the luxury of completing passes as easy as they did last year. Thus this will improve our pass rush and our turnover ratio. Were already seeing it in camp.

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

Well, we won't have Damontre Moore for the first two games, or Irving for the first four. Lawrence can be that dominating force, but he's so inconsistent. The rest is a crap shoot. From watching the training camp on NFL Network, I guess Charlton is getting schooled big time by La'el Collins, so he's far from being ready. I'm just hoping that Tapper shows up big time. I believe we will get some pressure in the interior from Maliek Collins & Cedric Thorton. All in all, this team did a piss poor job of bringing in top notch pass rushing talent. Man, even the Browns have better DEs in Ogbah & Garrett. I'd trade anyone we have at that position for either one of them. Hey, why don't we offer Chaz Green for Ogbah? Think they'd take it?

 

[Redball Express]

The defensive tackle rotation is decent. Maybe the best it's been in several years.

Yep..

it has been a neglected position on the team.

They will not invest much at the position.

I still wonder about the guy we signed from from the Iggles.

He seems to have disappeared.

Never hear his name at all.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think DLaw, Crawford, and Collins are going to surprise a lot of people. Throw in Taco, Tapper, Mayowa, and Paea and we'll be fine.

 

[kumizi]

no

I'm not drinking the koolaid.

 

[casmith07]

Stephen said this was offseason priority number one. We added Taco, D. Moore, Paea, and have a healthy Tapper. The suspensions suck. But looking at week 5, when we are past them and full strength, do we think our pass rush versus Rodgers will be appreciably better? And for remainder of the year?

We'll find out in September.

 

[dallasdave]

We'll find out in September.