Heard on The Break two words that just do not belong in the same sentence: Reliable and McFadden

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy, I don't think I misrepresented anything in what I said. I acknowledged you're free to give him that credit for those 3 weeks, but you're still left with what you're left with.

And.... here's the other part to that... he doesn't get credit as-if we know he would have been healthy and not have tore his knee up in those games he missed, because we can't.

All we KNOW is that he was hurt... for whatever reason... and he was out... and that's the bottom line.

SOOOOOO... no, Alfred Morris is still here, and I contend, that's mainly because he is reliable and McFadden isn't.

If you have a mechanic of why someone has an injury history then fine but statistically, injuries are random. Having one does not incline one to having another after recovery.

For example, Dunbar was small and seemed to have wear and tear issues. There is a allele in the gene that governs tissue generation and if you have the wrong sequence your ligaments and tendons have less structural strength leading to more tears, ruptures, and the like.

I'm not convinced that DMac just hasn't had bad luck.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He's capable, which is why he's here. Morris is here because McFadden also has an extensive injury history, including the fluke diving-for-his-cellphone one he suffered last preseason.

We're much better off if McFadden stays healthy and is Elliott's primary backup, but we're also better off with Morris if McFadden can't stay healthy. I'm a little surprised we did not use a late-round pick on a back to compete with Morris and only picked up a specialty back. .... Of course, I also won't be surprised if our intent is to keep Rod Smith as the third back because he can also play fullback and be a major contributor on special teams. Considering that Morris is the backup backup plan, I would have no problem with this even though it might mean the running game is nonexistent if we lose Elliott and McFadden.

I don't know how you can come up with a definitive narrative for cause on the second year of his deal.

They signed him before they drafted Zeke last year to a 2 years deal. After they lost Jackson they only have 3 RB on the rosters and had the draft fall such that they did not pick one. He doesn't make much scratch but the team always keeps 3 RB.

I would not be surprised to see a Will McClay special come down the pipe.

 

[Proximo]

Whatever the case may be, I just don't see Morris being the primary relief/backup to EE this year. I felt like the FO really wanted him to work out for us and gave him every opportunity, but the results weren't there. If anything it seemed like Morris got worse as the year went on.

Granted I am only going by what my eyes saw so maybe stats will prove me wrong, but it certainly seems like we can do better than him at RB2 this year.

Now if that ends up being Darren so be it. If it ends up being someone else so be it.

And don't take this last part the wrong way, but I really liked what Joseph Randle did for us as Murray's relief back in 2014. If we could find someone to make similar contributions (minus the knucklehead factor) I'd be happy,

 

[_sturt_]

If you have a mechanic of why someone has an injury history then fine but statistically, injuries are random. Having one does not incline one to having another after recovery.

For example, Dunbar was small and seemed to have wear and tear issues. There is a allele in the gene that governs tissue generation and if you have the wrong sequence your ligaments and tendons have less structural strength leading to more tears, ruptures, and the like.

I'm not convinced that DMac just hasn't had bad luck.

I'll acknowledge the bad luck explanation for this latest injury... sure it was, no argument. But trying to be balanced, what we know is that he broke his arm in a poolside accident... what we don't know is whether his bones are just a little more brittle that made it easier for that fracture to occur. But again, you're right... if taken in a vacuum, that one injury alone does not raise alarm.

It's that, plus what has come before...

...that raises alarm.

I keep saying this but some don't even seem to be interested in going there.... Morris would not be on this roster were it not for the reliability factor... a considerable plus in the Morris column, and a considerable minus in the McFadden column. That Morris is on the roster says all we need to know about the bottom line on this topic.

Footnote: Regarding your Dunbar analysis, if he's the goose, McFadden is the gander in that equation. Hard sell to allege that McFadden's just had that much more "bad luck" than Dunbar had, given the nature of all of those injuries. Disagree with that?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'll acknowledge the bad luck explanation for this latest injury... sure it was, no argument. But trying to be balanced, what we know is that he broke his arm in a poolside accident... what we don't know is whether his bones are just a little more brittle that made it easier for that fracture to occur. But again, you're right... if taken in a vacuum, that one injury alone does not raise alarm.

It's that, plus what has come before...

...that raises alarm.

I keep saying this but some don't even seem to be interested in going there.... Morris would not be on this roster were it not for the reliability factor... a considerable plus in the Morris column, and a considerable minus in the McFadden column. That Morris is on the roster says all we need to know about the bottom line on this topic.

Footnote: Regarding your Dunbar analysis, if he's the goose, McFadden is the gander in that equation. Hard sell to allege that McFadden's just had that much more "bad luck" than Dunbar had, given the nature of all of those injuries. Disagree with that?

Like I said before, unless there is a degenerative condition, prior injuries are not predictive of future injuries.

Ankle, hamstrings, or foot sprains, broken eye sockets, and the like are not degenerative.

Dunbar was small and had injuries you relate to small players; I don't attribute that to luck but an actual cause. DMC is not small.

 

[_sturt_]

So, the alleles thing can't apply to McFadden, eh? Because he's too large a man.

Right. Okay.

You're free to rationalize McFadden's situation, holding on to that position with your fingernails as it were, and to disregard as accurate or valid seemingly any point to the contrary... I've even said multiple times now that some of what you've said, I can agree with, and some of what you've said I disagree with but grant that you still could be right and, me, wrong...

but...

The premise/conclusion that began this thread remains standing on its own merits... ie, that "not-versatile, not-big-play-capable, but always available and always somewhat-productive" Alfred Morris remains on this roster... in lieu of adding an actual asset to the offense... is nearly indisputable testimony to the caution that Cowboys decision-makers continue to recognize, in light of McFadden's history.

(Yes, I said nearly indisputable, but only because I'm just one of those who tries to keep hold of a little humility and recognize that sometimes you just don't have any way of taking into account those things you can't actually know.)

Put another way, regardless of what anyone else among us fans think about the situation, it's fairly self-evident what the DC braintrust are thinking.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

DMAC doesn't have to carry the full load himself. He'll be fine

 

[jazzcat22]

If he was cleared then he was cleared. He hurt his elbow and was able to do cardio. Further, he was getting frustrated by the team dragging its feet because of the roster crunch and carped to the media.

And he got hurt diving for a iphone. It's not like he tore his knee up.

Actually he wasn't trying to save his phone. He explained what really happened when he slipped. It can happen to anyone at anytime.
It was a team mate that joked about saving his phone, and it took off like a wild fire. Just another stupid thing that the media and fans refuse to accept as usual.

 

[jazzcat22]

I'll acknowledge the bad luck explanation for this latest injury... sure it was, no argument. But trying to be balanced, what we know is that he broke his arm in a poolside accident... what we don't know is whether his bones are just a little more brittle that made it easier for that fracture to occur. But again, you're right... if taken in a vacuum, that one injury alone does not raise alarm.

It's that, plus what has come before...

...that raises alarm.

I keep saying this but some don't even seem to be interested in going there.... Morris would not be on this roster were it not for the reliability factor... a considerable plus in the Morris column, and a considerable minus in the McFadden column. That Morris is on the roster says all we need to know about the bottom line on this topic.

Footnote: Regarding your Dunbar analysis, if he's the goose, McFadden is the gander in that equation. Hard sell to allege that McFadden's just had that much more "bad luck" than Dunbar had, given the nature of all of those injuries. Disagree with that?

You say you like DMC, but sure does seem like you don't.

 

[Stash]

Really hope that Darius Jackson gets cut in TC by the Browns and we scoop him back up. They have Crowell, Duke Johnson, and drafted Matt Dayes, so a decent chance D Jax becomes available. Then cut Morris.

I wouldn't get my hopes up even if that did happen. We'd still be pretty far down on the pecking order for claiming him. And, given the fact that he was snatched up by the very first team that could have claimed him, I think it's a longshot that he would ever get to us again.

It was a big blunder to keep Dunbar over Jackson.

 

[Stash]

And, as for the "reliable" quote that was apparently the impetus for this thread, it came from Taylor Stern. Hardly an authoritative voice when it comes to Cowboys information.

 

[_sturt_]

That point is well-taken. Then again, the absence of any attempt to balance her comment was out of character for the other three. They normally catch something like that, if not immediately, Eatman in particular commonly will come back to clarify eventually.

 

[_sturt_]

You say you like DMC, but sure does seem like you don't.

All due respect, I've acknowledged he's everything else we would want except reliable. If the focus of the thread were something other than that, you wouldn't be challenging me b/c you'd find nothing negative on my part to disagree with. Future reference, just b/c someone points out a discrepancy like this shouldn't necessarily be interpreted as anything more than what it is--pointing out a discrepancy.

 

[Stash]

That point is well-taken. Then again, the absence of any attempt to balance her comment was out of character for the other three. They normally catch something like that, if not immediately, Eatman in particular commonly will come back to clarify eventually.

In listening to it, it sounded to me like they let her slide with it, as it was mentioned when the opinions of each group member was being solicited. I don't think any of them wanted to correct someone else's opinion. But she wasn't sharp. Look no further than the QB Ryan Fitzgerald reference.

 

[_sturt_]

I had to cut her slack on that one... hehe... I've done the exact same thing in recent memory... searching for stats for that Fitzgerald guy on the Pro Football Reference site.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So, the alleles thing can't apply to McFadden, eh? Because he's too large a man.

Right. Okay.

You're free to rationalize McFadden's situation, holding on to that position with your fingernails as it were, and to disregard as accurate or valid seemingly any point to the contrary... I've even said multiple times now that some of what you've said, I can agree with, and some of what you've said I disagree with but grant that you still could be right and, me, wrong...

but...

The premise/conclusion that began this thread remains standing on its own merits... ie, that "not-versatile, not-big-play-capable, but always available and always somewhat-productive" Alfred Morris remains on this roster... in lieu of adding an actual asset to the offense... is nearly indisputable testimony to the caution that Cowboys decision-makers continue to recognize, in light of McFadden's history.

(Yes, I said nearly indisputable, but only because I'm just one of those who tries to keep hold of a little humility and recognize that sometimes you just don't have any way of taking into account those things you can't actually know.)

Put another way, regardless of what anyone else among us fans think about the situation, it's fairly self-evident what the DC braintrust are thinking.

The alleles thing applies with a genetic test. I don't know either has the heterogeneous allele.

Using rhetorical flourish in place of reality is fun though.

Dunbar was small; I don't like small RB. It is what it is. I see no reason to think DMC is injury prone. You can post all the ankle and foot sprains you would like.

 

[_sturt_]

The alleles thing applies with a genetic test. I don't know either has the heterogeneous allele.

Using rhetorical flourish in place of reality is fun though.

Dunbar was small; I don't like small RB. It is what it is.

You brought it up.

I merely suggested that a conclusion is more sound when we're willing to apply the same standard of measure to both players. It's not all that "rhetorical," and I don't know how "floruishing" it is, but I get the intended strategy in that comment to try to distract from the reality of the logic.

I see no reason to think DMC is injury prone. You can post all the ankle and foot sprains you would like.

Said the guy who not only just mocked reality as "rhetorical flourish," but then also just wrote, "It is what it is."

Truth #1: We don't all have to always reach the same conclusions, even with the same data in front of us, but s'helpme, it sure does help if we can all at least acknowledge some of the most obvious and basic conclusions drawn from the data.

Truth #2: If an injury is an football-related ankle sprain or if an injury is a freak accident elbow fracture or if an injury is a concussion or if an injury is stomach flu or if the injury is anything that prevents a player from coming to work and doing his job... it's a mark against his availability and thus a mark against his reliability. Any player who has been available only 2 complete seasons in 9 is not reliable.

Final truth: You're entitled to your opinion nonetheless. All I've done here is state my own, and to make the observation that mine appears to be held by the decision-makers in Frisco given their retention, to this point anyway, of Morris.

At least, you nor anyone else appears to dispute that much. And that's enough for me.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You brought it up.

I merely suggested that a conclusion is more sound when we're willing to apply the same standard of measure to both players. It's not all that "rhetorical," and I don't know how "floruishing" it is, but I get the intended strategy in that comment to try to distract from the reality of the logic.


Said the guy who not only just mocked reality as "rhetorical flourish," but then also just wrote, "It is what it is."

Truth #1: We don't all have to always reach the same conclusions, even with the same data in front of us, but s'helpme, it sure does help if we can all at least acknowledge some of the most obvious and basic conclusions drawn from the data.

Truth #2: If an injury is an football-related ankle sprain or if an injury is a freak accident elbow fracture or if an injury is a concussion or if an injury is stomach flu or if the injury is anything that prevents a player from coming to work and doing his job... it's a mark against his availability and thus a mark against his reliability. Any player who has been available only 2 complete seasons in 9 is not reliable.

Final truth: You're entitled to your opinion nonetheless. All I've done here is state my own, and to make the observation that mine appears to be held by the decision-makers in Frisco given their retention, to this point anyway, of Morris.

At least, you nor anyone else appears to dispute that much. And that's enough for me.

The flourish was describing my position as "holding on by my fingernails." You did so without anything else of substance.

Your truths are anything but. As for the first, I have yet to see you actually look at the data as a whole. If you want to show a correlation between sprains and the potential for future injury with NFL players then I would listen. You have not remotely done so. I have seen studies that look at various injuries and the potential for future injuries and it only so much noise.

I would also give credence to actual mechanics. For example a smaller size being less able to absorb the momentum from blocks, hits and such or the expression of a particular allele forming weaker ligaments and tendons. You don't do anything of the sort.

People can come to different opinions sure but if you are going to tell me that you can predict the future as it regards DMC then you had best do better than put down marks on your fantasy ledger and wave your hands.