Heard this on the radio about Dan Quinn and penalties

[Motorola]

Kinda long but needed to setup the question. Now I'm not blaming Dan, because I feel it's on the players mental focus .
But a radi0 hist on 105.3 fan pointed out after researching was that each year Dan was the main DC on a team
Seattle 2 years (legion of boom) 1 year Here the team was number 1 in penalties. What I find interesting is they won a superbowl in Seattle ranking #1 in penalties. Went to the superbowl and was 12-5 here. Which leads to this, his defenses are very aggressive which Could lead to more flags, ( haven't did the research on if the defense lead the way in penalties or offense)
Here's the question if the aggressive style is the major culprit, what would you choose. Have a less aggressive defense or continue being the aggressive defense and live with the flags?

Looked up 2021 penalty breakdown at Pro Football Database:
Under four categories that would be attibuted to the offense - delay of game, false start, offensive holding, pass offensive pass interference - Dallas was flagged 51 times.

Under six categories that could be attributed to the defense - offsides, defensive holding, illegal contact, defensive pass interference, roughing the passer, unecessary roughness - the Cowboys were called 42 times.
34 times the team was flagged were not specified --listed as 'Other'....I wonder what those were.
Half the league had 10 or more DPIs like Dallas; 9 teams had 7 to 11 URs like the Cowboys. Their roughing the passer total of 3 is tied for 2nd lowest with a few other teams, while 16 teams had 5 or more.
So it does not appear that most of the penalties are due to an "aggressive" defense.

Basically the Cowboys were in a group of nine teams that committed 111 penalties or more last season.
Eleven other teams committed 102 to 107 infractions.
The other twelve teams were flagged 98 times or less.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I roughly got 72 offensive penalties and 57 defensive penalties and there were some other penalties that could go either way and some special teams penalties

All bad!! Gregorio’s hands to the face and offsides stand out for defense. Brown pi.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

Kinda long but needed to setup the question. Now I'm not blaming Dan, because I feel it's on the players mental focus .
But a radi0 hist on 105.3 fan pointed out after researching was that each year Dan was the main DC on a team
Seattle 2 years (legion of boom) 1 year Here the team was number 1 in penalties. What I find interesting is they won a superbowl in Seattle ranking #1 in penalties. Went to the superbowl and was 12-5 here. Which leads to this, his defenses are very aggressive which Could lead to more flags, ( haven't did the research on if the defense lead the way in penalties or offense)
Here's the question if the aggressive style is the major culprit, what would you choose. Have a less aggressive defense or continue being the aggressive defense and live with the flags?

It's just like Favre and all his interceptions, you can accept the bad so long as it comes with a net positive good. If you're taking the ball away multiple times and keeping the other team under 20pts then who cares about the flags!

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

It’s a long known fact that Seattle’s approach was “play physical and commit illegal contact/hold often” and just date the refs to call it over and over again.

it worked for them. I have no problem with the defense being aggressive.

it’s the offensive penalties, holding, false start, etc that kill us

Wow... Seattle approach has been well documented. Surprised it took this long, in this thread, for someone to finally say it.


Seattle's CB's and LB's would....
Hold, grab, maintain contact too long on every play until the refs will stop calling it. They don't want the game to be five hours long, so they have to stop calling it sooner or later.

 

[AsthmaField]

Ok your math may be better than mine I used this

https://www.nflpenalties.com/team/dallas-cowboys?year=2021&view=penalties

I got (just the 17 regular season games):

Offense -62 for 510 yards

Defense - 46 for 527 yards

Special T - 19 for 136 yards

The Las Vegas game skewed the numbers towards defense a little because it was such an outlier compared to the other games.

Las Vegas game:

Offense - 3 for 24 yards
Defense - 7 for 116 yards
Special T - 4 for 26 yards

Incidentally, the crew that did the LV game was also the crew that did Saturday’s Denver preseason game.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/team/dallas-cowboys?year=2021&view=games

 

[Dre11]

Bill Parcells I believed used to say that when it comes to penalties either you're being coached that way or it's being allowed to happen.

Either way it's the coaches fault.

No he didn't, Bill Parcells said he doesn't coach penalties.

https://sportdfw.com/2022/08/15/dallas-cowboys-penalties-blame/

He also said this

Parcells is fed up with how many penalties and turnovers the
Cowboys (2-2) are committing, and the crucial times those mistakes
and others are occurring.

It all comes down to concentration, he says. His players simply
lack it, no matter how much coaches talk about it -- and they've
been talking about it a lot since training camp.

 

[john van brocklin]

they were not bogus lol.
Basham led with crown of helmet to the qb's mid section.
williams was late and sort of lowered his helmet as he hit the qb. and it took the qb off his feet for a bad landing.
The qb is most defenseless as he throws the ball.

There is no need to hit qb's after they throw the ball, unless you cant beat them with that qb playing.(remember the bounty bowl playoff games where saints did exactly that to farve and warner)
much better to try and block that pass, than go for the useless hit.

This being a PS game made it more silly, to try and hurt some poor bkup trying to make the team. # 11 is in mid 30's trying to earn the bkup
job, so I dont approve of late hits like those in a ps game.

This also comes back on coaches, who are not teaching these guys how to play smart.

Dandy, those hits were really close calls.
But as always I respect your opinion.
And I never want to see anyone hurt out there.

 

[Dre11]

I got (just the 17 regular season games):

Offense -62 for 510 yards

Defense - 46 for 527 yards

Special T - 19 for 136 yards

The Las Vegas game skewed the numbers towards defense a little because it was such an outlier compared to the other games.

Las Vegas game:

Offense - 3 for 24 yards
Defense - 7 for 116 yards
Special T - 4 for 26 yards

Incidentally, the crew that did the LV game was also the crew that did Saturday’s Denver preseason game.

https://www.nflpenalties.com/team/dallas-cowboys?year=2021&view=games

Yep the Kemp guy was the crew Saturday. They got trash thrown on them when they left the field and Dak made that comment.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Kinda long but needed to setup the question. Now I'm not blaming Dan, because I feel it's on the players mental focus .
But a radi0 hist on 105.3 fan pointed out after researching was that each year Dan was the main DC on a team
Seattle 2 years (legion of boom) 1 year Here the team was number 1 in penalties. What I find interesting is they won a superbowl in Seattle ranking #1 in penalties. Went to the superbowl and was 12-5 here. Which leads to this, his defenses are very aggressive which Could lead to more flags, ( haven't did the research on if the defense lead the way in penalties or offense)
Here's the question if the aggressive style is the major culprit, what would you choose. Have a less aggressive defense or continue being the aggressive defense and live with the flags?

What's our split between defensive and offensive penalties? I think that's critical to know

 

[Dre11]

What's our split between defensive and offensive penalties? I think that's critical to know

There's a couple people that did the math, close to being split

 

[AsthmaField]

What's our split between defensive and offensive penalties? I think that's critical to know

Look up the page

 

[Typhus]

they were not bogus lol.
Basham led with crown of helmet to the qb's mid section.
williams was late and sort of lowered his helmet as he hit the qb. and it took the qb off his feet for a bad landing.
The qb is most defenseless as he throws the ball.

There is no need to hit qb's after they throw the ball, unless you cant beat them with that qb playing.(remember the bounty bowl playoff games where saints did exactly that to farve and warner)
much better to try and block that pass, than go for the useless hit.

This being a PS game made it more silly, to try and hurt some poor bkup trying to make the team. # 11 is in mid 30's trying to earn the bkup
job, so I dont approve of late hits like those in a ps game.

This also comes back on coaches, who are not teaching these guys how to play smart.

Basham and Fowler are the hired hit men, they need to be kept to perform some dirty work this defense has lost the rep for lately, Im good with it.
Basham could have delivered the same results without leaving his feet in a power drive though, that is where the brain function has to kick in.
I like animals on this defense though.

 

[AsthmaField]

Basham and Fowler are the hired hit men, they need to be kept to perform some dirty work this defense has lost the rep for lately, Im good with it.
Basham could have delivered the same results without leaving his feet in a power drive though, that is where the brain function has to kick in.
I like animals on this defense though.

Hits on the QB are absolutely critical to the defense. The players just have to be smart about it. Can’t land on the QB… can’t use the helmet.

 

[Typhus]

Hits on the QB are absolutely critical to the defense. The players just have to be smart about it. Can’t land on the QB… can’t use the helmet.

Its the split second decision to dial down an over aggressive play into a strong legal hit.
I say let the bulls run all preseason and take all the flags, the yellow is mellow until the first game of the season.
Just refine some tech in finishing the tackle, and we have games left to prepare.
Im not overly concerned with the excessive penalties at this point, its correctable.

 

[AsthmaField]

Its the split second decision to dial down an over aggressive play into a strong legal hit.
I say let the bulls run all preseason and take all the flags, the yellow is mellow until the first game of the season.
Just refine some tech in finishing the tackle, and we have games left to prepare.
Im not overly concerned with the excessive penalties at this point, its correctable.

Yeah, but I feel the penalties need to be addressed, but you have to let the defenders hit the QB. You just coach them about what they can and can’t do… but you always want the QB hit if you can do it within the rules.

 

[Verdict]

No it does not, the NFL is really killing teams now for being aggressive.
Look at the bogus roughing the QB calls we got last game.

I think penalties cannot be viewed in a vacuum. If the ratio or turnovers vs penalties is favorable, then you roll with the penalties. If not then you have to give the cost vs benefit analysis a good hard look.

 

[Verdict]

Yeah, but I feel the penalties need to be addressed, but you have to let the defenders hit the QB. You just coach them about what they can and can’t do… but you always want the QB hit if you can do it within the rules.

Every. Single. Time.

 

[Typhus]

Yeah, but I feel the penalties need to be addressed, but you have to let the defenders hit the QB. You just coach them about what they can and can’t do… but you always want the QB hit if you can do it within the rules.

Eaxactly and agree 100 percent.

 

[Typhus]

Yeah, but I feel the penalties need to be addressed, but you have to let the defenders hit the QB. You just coach them about what they can and can’t do… but you always want the QB hit if you can do it within the rules.

Am I a bad person if I want some Bum Phillips moments?

 

[Motorola]

Where is that ranking for the Cowboys

2021 penalty stats re 'The Football Database' :
Offensive Holding___
1) Cowboys -27
2) Vikings - 26
3) Ravens - 25
4) Raiders, Texans tied - 24
6) Browns, Chiefs tied - 23