tyke1doe
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 53,667
- Reaction score
- 32,043
Yes he did..
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnBu00.htm
And no.. The QB can't carry a team.. for one simple reason.. He doesn't play defense.. Elway was standing on the sideline when Jeremiah Castille punched the ball out of Earnest Byner's hands as he was on his way into the end zone for what would have been the game clinching TD. Being the focal point is one thing.. Carrying? Never happens.. No matter how often a fallacy is repeated it will always remains a fallacy.
First, thanks for the Butch Johnson information. I forgot all about that. But surely, you're not arguing that a Butch Johnson in his final years was a top player in the league enough to say he helped Elway more than the other way around?
Second, you point to a play on defense. I can point to the 98-yard drive for the go-ahead touchdown against the Browns in the 1987 AFC Championship Game. That series Elway very much carried the team to a victory. Of course, his receivers catching the ball played a part. But that doesn't detract from his MAJOR role in the drive. If that's not carrying a team, I don't know what is.
Third, if a quarterback/player couldn't carry a team, why does the league or even teams themselves designate MVPs, team captains, etc.?
If it were a fallacy that a player could carry a team, we wouldn't have these awards and measurements to recognize "best" players, "most valuable" players, not to mention pay quarterback obscene amounts of money because of their "value" to their team. And that "value" is related to how they can lift their teams - PARTICULARLY at the quarterback position.
Far from a fallacy. Awards and salary differences speak to the reality of value, and value is measured by how important a player is to his team, i.e., this person is MORE IMPORTANT to our team than another. Translation: he has the ability to "lift" this team more than another player.
Be that as it may, we'll have to agree to disagree.