Henry vs Zeke

[dallas72]

And to think we could have used the 4th pick in the draft on a more important position and taken Henry in the 2nd round?

Will Henry hold out for 16 million a year?

Henry has been hurt all the time...hes have a great year But Zeke has had 4 great seasons

 

[mattjames2010]

Dallas fans have heard that the OL is one of the best. Well, proof is in the pudding. Tennessee has the best OL in the NFL. For two straight ROAD playoff W-I-N-S, the Titans did NOT pass for 100 yards in either win



Sorry, disagree. I believe Tennessee has the better OL. Titans won two (2) road playoff wins and didn't throw for 100 yards in either one. Could the Cowboys do this? Hell NO.
*** More important, look what a solid defense can do !

Our offensive line was great this year.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

"
4. DALLAS COWBOYS
The Cowboys have been near the top of this conversation for years. This season was another impressive display for the group, finishing fifth in PFF pass-blocking grade and third in run-blocking grade. It's well known what Tyron Smith, Zack Martin and Travis Frederick are capable of when fully healthy, but La’el Collins‘ performance this year was the most promising development from the group. His 85.8 overall grade ranked third among right tackles and was easily the highest overall grade of his career. Collins and Martin on the right side of the line helped lead an offense that finished second behind only the Ravens in expected points added per run play."

 

[Section446]

As of right now, there's no question, Henry by a mile.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Stanley wouldn't have been playing LT his first couple years, he would have developed as a RT....which was a need with an aging Doug Free lol

And we still had the choice of taking Ramsey if taking an all-pro tackle, somehow, seems silly to you. The simple fact is, we could have gotten an RB in the second round that would have produced similar to Zeke behind our great offensive line.

The fact that fans pointed this out in 2016 and our front office couldn't grasp that our offensive line made RBs is sad. Actually, it's pretty damn sad the NFL is right back to overvaluing RBs again.

So they would in your scenario spend a #4 overall pick on a right tackle lol.

You are just arguing to argue.

If you want to say Ramsey would've been the better pick that's fine. There's a argument for that. But to add Stanley to this argument is dumb. I would say its a hindsight argument but even in hindsight its a dumb argument.

Drafting Ramsey on the other hand...

I wanted Ramsey at the time. Hated they didn't get him but in hindsight I'm glad they didn't but at least that move makes sense.

 

[mattjames2010]

That's moronic. Sorry. Yes, there's a argument to be made that drafting a running back with the #4 overall pick is moronic too.....definitely a argument for that but it is simply STUPID to invest a #4 overall pick into a right tackle until he can play left tackle once Tyron I guess is finished.

This team RARELY picks that high and the one time they get that high its not for a quarterback or defensive linemen....its for a left tackle who'd play right tackle for us until his rookie deal is up? Yeah that's stupid. Sorry.

If you want to say this team is stupid for passing up on Ramsey that's one thing. But adding Stanley to the argument is just reaching.

No, it's not. The RT was a need in 2016, Stanley would have filled that void for a few years before taking over the LT spot. LOL at you thinking it's a joke to find your future replacement at LT that could literally solidify our LT spot for years.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Our offensive line was great this year.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

"
4. DALLAS COWBOYS
The Cowboys have been near the top of this conversation for years. This season was another impressive display for the group, finishing fifth in PFF pass-blocking grade and third in run-blocking grade. It's well known what Tyron Smith, Zack Martin and Travis Frederick are capable of when fully healthy, but La’el Collins‘ performance this year was the most promising development from the group. His 85.8 overall grade ranked third among right tackles and was easily the highest overall grade of his career. Collins and Martin on the right side of the line helped lead an offense that finished second behind only the Ravens in expected points added per run play."

Good ol' PFF....sucks when its used in a argument against you but when you need to make a argument it works in your favor lol.

 

[mattjames2010]

So they would in your scenario spend a #4 overall pick on a right tackle lol.

You are just arguing to argue.

If you want to say Ramsey would've been the better pick that's fine. There's a argument for that. But to add Stanley to this argument is dumb. I would say its a hindsight argument but even in hindsight its a dumb argument.

Drafting Ramsey on the other hand...

I wanted Ramsey at the time. Hated they didn't get him but in hindsight I'm glad they didn't but at least that move makes sense.

They would not just be solidifying the RT spot, they would be solidifying BOTH LT and RT. Again, the fact that you can't seem to understand the value of solidifying the tackle spots for years to come being more important than a skill position is hilarious. But it's sad that we have a dopey GM who thinks like the lowest on this board. Probably why we haven't won crap in nearly 3 decades.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

No, it's not. The RT was a need in 2016, Stanley would have filled that void for a few years before taking over the LT spot. LOL at you thinking it's a joke to find your future replacement at LT that could literally solidify our LT spot for years.

Man you can get a RT in the 2nd or 3rd round stop it. You can't sit here and say #4 overall pick is too high for a running back but then backdoor and say you should take a RT.

Your future replacement? By the time Tyron retires Stanley will be 28 years old if not older lol. That is not how you go about finding a replacement lol. The whole point of finding talent is to have them for as long as possible on a cheap deal in that first round. That's not using your resources well.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

They would not just be solidifying the RT spot, they would be solidifying BOTH LT and RT. Again, the fact that you can't seem to understand the value of solidifying the tackle spots for years to come being more important than a skill position is hilarious. But it's sad that we have a dopey GM who thinks like the lowest on this board. Probably why we haven't won crap in nearly 3 decades.

I understand solidifying the right tackle position what I'm trying to understand is why do you have to do it with the #4 overall pick in the draft?

 

[Whyjerry]

And to think we could have used the 4th pick in the draft on a more important position and taken Henry in the 2nd round?

Will Henry hold out for 16 million a year?

Well one guy elevated his game when the team needed it. The other guy takes himself out of the game for a breather. One guy is playing in a championship. The other guy is probably breaking league policies.

Zeke is an idiot. Pure and simple. It was a bad decision to extend him.

 

[mattjames2010]

Good ol' PFF....sucks when its used in a argument against you but when you need to make a argument it works in your favor lol.

Want to use football outsiders? I already mentioned them earlier, the biggest negatives came from second level yards - which falls directly on Zeke. I didn't just start referencing PFF today, I have been using them for years. I also get to UNDERSTAND how they come to their conclusions, unlike ESPN. Doesn't mean I always agree with them, PFF still has problems with breaking down the context and situational stats.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I can’t vouch specifically for DHB on his stance, but the Ramsey/Bosa + Henry vs. Zeke + defender in 2nd round was a pretty spirited debate on the old DC.com board. We even had someone who claimed to be Derrick Henry’s cousin participating in them. It wasn’t just a Zeke vs. Henry debate. I believe almost everyone agreed Zeke was the best back at the time
The debate centered more around draft strategy.

Agreed.

For me it’s not Zeke vs. Henry.

Rather, it’s approach to personnel. I made the argument during draft day and after he signed his rookie deal.

You drafted a RB at #4 overall...a position at which has been historically demonstrated that you can find talented and productive players in later rounds and even off the street. Zeke’s rookie contract instantly made him the top 3/4 RBs in the league. Ramsey’s rookie deal put him somewhere in the top 40 of defensive backs.

 

[mattjames2010]

I understand solidifying the right tackle position what I'm trying to understand is why do you have to do it with the #4 overall pick in the draft?

Why would you choose a freakin' RB in the top 5 when he's not a transcendent player? It's a skill position, and as we have seen, that skill position can be found pretty easily throughout the draft - we are discussing one of those players in this very thread.

Again, LT > RB. Those who preferred to take a tackle/CB in the first and RB in the second were proven right.

 

[texbumthelife]

You could literally do this with every single pick from every single team every single year.

We have Zeke. Stop with this negative pissing and moaning vitriol. JFC

 

[Aviano90]

Sorry, disagree. I believe Tennessee has the better OL. Titans won two (2) road playoff wins and didn't throw for 100 yards in either one. Could the Cowboys do this? Hell NO.
*** More important, look what a solid defense can do !

No worries. Let’s just assume Tennessee has the better offensive line, it wouldn’t be that much better. Dallas still has one of the best lines in the league.

What would change is Henry would face fewer stacked boxes here than in Tennessee. He would probably get more touches here as well. He is a much better runner in the open field because he makes people miss, breaks tackles, and uses the stiff arm probably better than anyone in the league currently. About the only thing that would have prevented him from winning rushing titles here is an injury, IMO.

 

[Whyjerry]

Zeke is the better overall running back HANDS DOWN. Of course Henry is the prom queen right now - but Zeke would've won 3 rushing titles in his first 3 years had he not got that ridiculous 6 game suspension his sophomore season. He finished 4th in the rushing title race this year in an offense that nearly threw for 5,000 yards (well over 1,000 more yards than the Titans threw for; that's a lot in a 16 game season).

The most frustrating thing is the Cowboys were adamant to run Zeke to the left side of the line & if you go back and watch film, when he ran to the right (our real OLine run blocking strength) he feasted. I think they ran him to the left a lot because it sets the ball up on the left hash - giving right handed Dak Prescott more room to work the right side of the field - which I think he favors.

It was just a frustrating season overall & I hope they can fix this run game because Zeke is the best running back in the league and I don't even think it's close.

Why exactly is Zeke the best RB in the league? Because he is Zeke and fans say so? He is nit the best back in the league and the arrow is pointing down.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Want to use football outsiders? I already mentioned them earlier, the biggest negatives came from second level yards - which falls directly on Zeke. I didn't just start referencing PFF today, I have been using them for years. I also get to UNDERSTAND how they come to their conclusions, unlike ESPN. Doesn't mean I always agree with them, PFF still has problems with breaking down the context and situational stats.

Not arguing for or against PFF. Just bringing up that when its used in arguments for Dak its considered a joke. Or when its used for players people dislike its considered a joke.

Why would you choose a freakin' RB in the top 5 when he's not a transcendent player? It's a skill position, and as we have seen, that skill position can be found pretty easily throughout the draft - we are discussing one of those players in this very thread.

Again, LT > RB. Those who preferred to take a tackle/CB in the first and RB in the second were proven right.

AHahhhhahh this is laughable.

So this is about being proven "right"? So you armchair GM's can feel good about yourself?

Its taken 4 years from you guys to be "proven right" lol.

Even though Zeke is the one who's on his way to being a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Nobody would ever say that about Henry or Stanley at this point.

Stanley and Henry did what Zeke did his first year in the league.


Was the answer to draft a running back at #4 overall?No it wasn't. You could've used your resources far better. Hell I wouldn't have even used a 2nd rounder on a running back. I feel like you can get better value later on in the draft at that position.

You'd have to be a moron to use the #4 overall pick on a tackle when you already had a left tackle and you can also get a right tackle later on in the draft. Once again....this is about getting the most value.


So in regards who was proven "right"? No one.

They drafted Zeke to stretch out Romo's career. Romo got hurt before the season even started and career was over.
It took 4 years for Stanley to become the All Pro he's become. I need a better return with my #4 overall pick especially when I want to have as much value as I possibly can while I have you on a cheap deal.
It also took Henry 4 years to look like the All Pro that Zeke has been. Solid value for a 2nd round pick.
Took 4 years for Jalen Ramsey to be the ******* we all knew him to be to get traded.


So who truly was "proven right"? Seems like all of y'all were proven wrong.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Why exactly is Zeke the best RB in the league? Because he is Zeke and fans say so? He is nit the best back in the league and the arrow is pointing down.

He wasn't the best back in the league this year but if its based on 2016? A lot of guys have come on gone. When he entered the league people said Johnson and Leveon were the best backs in the league. Then some felt Saquon, Kareem Hunt and Cook would be that....now its McCafferry and Henry...a lot of guys have entered and left this discussion but Zeke is still standing in that mix. No one can say that.

 

[gjkoeppen]

And to think we could have used the 4th pick in the draft on a more important position and taken Henry in the 2nd round?

Will Henry hold out for 16 million a year?

I'll bet as soon as the titans season is over he'll be asking for 16 mil after the season he's had and I'll also bet if the titans don't give it to him they'll tag him and during next season he'll get it or very darn close to it.
.

 

[TheDude]

I would rather have a RB who doesn't have to take himself out every other play because he's out of shape and can't handle the workload. I would understand if he were 54 like me, but he isn't.

To which one are you referring ?