Hindsight is always 20/20

My theory is that Ryan was fired because his personality did not fit Garrett's "right kind of guy" approach. Garrett wanted him gone because they just didn't fit well together, and last year's drop-off was a good excuse. But IMO, what Ryan accomplished last year with guys literally coming off the street and starting was amazing.

My main concern is that we spent ten years building for the 3-4, had emerging superstars in Carter & Lee, the best defensive player in the league in D. Ware, and now suddenly Carter is no longer starting and D. Ware is average. Uh Oh, can we take it all back? Somebody screwed up ROYALLY!
 
Awakened said:
My main concern is that we spent ten years building for the 3-4, had emerging superstars in Carter & Lee, the best defensive player in the league in D. Ware, and now suddenly Carter is no longer starting and D. Ware is average. Uh Oh, can we take it all back? Somebody screwed up ROYALLY!
Click to expand...

I guess you conveniently forgot about defensive players like Carter, Ware talking up switching to 4-3, how there were going to be more effective in 4-3. Also, if you have been following the team, you would know that Ware is dealing with injuries and Carter is simply not playing well, hence getting benched.
 
03EBZ06 said:
I guess you conveniently forgot about defensive players like Carter, Ware talking up switching to 4-3, how there were going to be more effective in 4-3. Also, if you have been following the team, you would know that Ware is dealing with injuries and Carter is simply not playing well, hence getting benched.
Click to expand...

What are they supposed to say?

"This is a terrible move, I cant believe this is happening"?

Uh no, they are towing the party line. They diddnt have a say in it.

Carter looks terrible in this defense.
 
03EBZ06 said:
I guess you conveniently forgot about defensive players like Carter, Ware talking up switching to 4-3, how there were going to be more effective in 4-3. Also, if you have been following the team, you would know that Ware is dealing with injuries and Carter is simply not playing well, hence getting benched.
Click to expand...

Whoa, bro. I do follow the team. Just because players said publicly they were excited about the switch doesn't mean A) they said so privately, or B) they will in fact perform better. I appreciate you following the team for me, so that you can give the in-depth analysis that Carter is "simply not playing well." That clears everything up.
 
Let's face it, our D is just like our offense - as long as we have a certain amount of players who are hurt or just can't play well, the whole thing is pretty much going to under-achieve. While we were fixing the OL, the DL fell apart.

Be that as it may, If we were still running the 3-4, we would be doing it without a nose tackle.
 
Some folks asked this after Wade went to Houston and improved their D out of the gate. Scheme stayed the same and the consensus then was "it was the players."

We can blame the change of scheme, but...I still think it's the players that ultimately still have to execute. No matter the system, if a CB is beat because he lets a WR get in front of him on a crossing patter/slant or lets him run by him going deep, its the CB, not the scheme. If a LB gets burned by a TE b/c he's too slow to react, odds are its the LB, not the scheme. And if guys are missing tackles...that's the players, not the scheme.

The defense is on pace for 44sacks, 16INTs, 16FF.
2012: 34 sacks, 7INTs, 15FF
2011: 43 sacks, 15INTs, 14FF
2010: 35 sacks, 20INTs, 16FF
2009: 42 sacks, 11INTs, 17FF

There hasn't been a big difference/change in output or potential output with the change in coaching or scheme. again, IMO, it's the players.
 
The only person to blame is Jason Garrett. He was the guy who went into Jerry Jones office and told him to go after Monte Kiffin. With that said, it's way to early in the season to say that this scheme is good or not.
 
I gotta say...mourningmourning game 1 it seemed like it was better.

Turnovers and picks .... Then that game ended.
 
EPL0c0 said:
Some folks asked this after Wade went to Houston and improved their D out of the gate. Scheme stayed the same and the consensus then was "it was the players."

We can blame the change of scheme, but...I still think it's the players that ultimately still have to execute. No matter the system, if a CB is beat because he lets a WR get in front of him on a crossing patter/slant or lets him run by him going deep, its the CB, not the scheme. If a LB gets burned by a TE b/c he's too slow to react, odds are its the LB, not the scheme. And if guys are missing tackles...that's the players, not the scheme.

The defense is on pace for 44sacks, 16INTs, 16FF.
2012: 34 sacks, 7INTs, 15FF
2011: 43 sacks, 15INTs, 14FF
2010: 35 sacks, 20INTs, 16FF
2009: 42 sacks, 11INTs, 17FF

There hasn't been a big difference/change in output or potential output with the change in coaching or scheme. again, IMO, it's the players.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I am not buying the bad scheme BS. After all, Marinelli did have the 3rd ranked defense last year employing the same scheme.
 
EPL0c0 said:
Some folks asked this after Wade went to Houston and improved their D out of the gate. Scheme stayed the same and the consensus then was "it was the players."

We can blame the change of scheme, but...I still think it's the players that ultimately still have to execute. No matter the system, if a CB is beat because he lets a WR get in front of him on a crossing patter/slant or lets him run by him going deep, its the CB, not the scheme. If a LB gets burned by a TE b/c he's too slow to react, odds are its the LB, not the scheme. And if guys are missing tackles...that's the players, not the scheme.

The defense is on pace for 44sacks, 16INTs, 16FF.
2012: 34 sacks, 7INTs, 15FF
2011: 43 sacks, 15INTs, 14FF
2010: 35 sacks, 20INTs, 16FF
2009: 42 sacks, 11INTs, 17FF

There hasn't been a big difference/change in output or potential output with the change in coaching or scheme. again, IMO, it's the players.
Click to expand...

It sure seems like the pla
DuDa said:
I agree with this. I am not buying the bad scheme BS. After all, Marinelli did have the 3rd ranked defense last year employing the same scheme.
Click to expand...
I don't know if Marinelli ran the exact same scheme last year as Kiffin is running now. If it is the exact same scheme, Marinelli needs to take over from Kiffin today . Kiffin was a great DC 15 years ago. I would like a coach with more recent success.
 
it takes time for a new defensive philosophy and scheme to really become effective, so with that said it's too early to tell with Kiffin. I think he gets 2-3 years like Ryan got which, theoretically, should be just enough time to get the personnel you need and your entire playbook in place.

i know that's not what we want to hear, but that's the reality. how many teams in the history of the NFL have become a top 5 defense after a DC change w/ a philosophical / scheme change?
 
tm1119 said:
I don't disagree with firing Ryan. Switching to the 4-3 I did disagree with though.
Click to expand...

Looks about right, only problem is Spencer going down. If he was in the 3-4/4-3 things would be looking better.
 
john van brocklin said:
But did we make the right move firing Rob Ryan ?
I mean we are ranked 28th on defence in the NFL.
We had 7 staters go down on defence last year , and they still looked better than this year's version.
I know there will be a transition period , but some of our better players seem miscast in this defensive scheme (Carter, Ware and Mo to name 3).
Meanwhile Rob has taken a sorry group from last year's Saints team and has them playing pretty solid D.
What to you folks think ?
Click to expand...

Legit question.
I think his personality and how he kept throwing the offense under the bus and missing meetings were at least part of why he was dismissed. His players liked him, but he was divisive overall within the organization.
But a real good argument could be made that the cover two is defense that has been passed by.
The good news is that I don't think Dallas comes close to running a standard cover 2.
 
I don't think it was a mistake to fire Ryan at all. The replacement can be questioned for sure but I think it is still too early right now to make a call on that one way or the other. I was never impressed with the D since we switched to the 3 -4 regardless of the coach so not sure it was coaching but more of the scheme and how our players fit. Not sure on that though. The Saints have looked pretty decent but also keep in mind who they have played:

ATL
Tampa
AZ
Miami
Bears

The only team there that is prepared to go toe to toe with the Saints O is ATL and we have seen how good they are this year so far (1-4). The only good team on that list is the Bears and that is strictly dependent on Jay Cutler and how he plays. I don't think Ryan has done some masterful job with the D there, I think it is more about the return of the Saints Offensive.
 
Ryan has been 10x more creative with the Saints than he ever was with Dallas...and they are managing to get pressure with the front 4, which also never happened consistently.
 
Hindsight is always 20/20 , that's what our db's said last Sunday as they watched the wr's for the Broncos score.:eek:
 
john van brocklin said:
But did we make the right move firing Rob Ryan ?
I mean we are ranked 28th on defence in the NFL.
We had 7 staters go down on defence last year , and they still looked better than this year's version.
I know there will be a transition period , but some of our better players seem miscast in this defensive scheme (Carter, Ware and Mo to name 3).
Meanwhile Rob has taken a sorry group from last year's Saints team and has them playing pretty solid D.
What to you folks think ?
Click to expand...



No but it is now water under the bridge.

Call it what you want but it was an impulse firing because Jerry said he was going to make things uncomfortable. Instead of changing out the water coolers at the Ranch with Krogers water instead of Ozarka, he fired Ryan.
 
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