Honor the contract garbage

[aikemirv]

I am kind of confused by your post a little bit. The contract cuts both ways. Owners can cut a player anytime they want, the only impact for the team is the dead money. The players risks not getting paid the salary for when he holds out.
In the Zeke situation, I understand both sides of the argument.
Zeke's perspective: He doesn't buy the argument that RB's are a replaceable position, and they matter to winning. Why did the Cowboys draft me at #4 if they didn't want to offer me a second contract? The success of the team relies on him much more than Dak or other players.
Plus Jerry is old and he will not see another SB if this latest iteration of the Cowboys don't get there.

Cowboys perspective: We drafted you because we thought you were a good player. You have two years left. The Gurley contract was absurd and we should have drafted Ramsey ( I added the Ramsey part).
Hold out. We will not pay you Gurley's contract number. We have offered you a deal and you want to break the bank.

The point is that some on this board say that owners are not honoring the contract because players can get cut.

 

[Stash]

Sure it is because it is in the contract language that they can do so, otherwise they would be sued. To honor the contract Zeke should have to start paying some fines!

It's certainly within the team's rights.

 

[Stash]

But if cut the player usually has already pocketed their bonus monies.

Which is not the same as the full amounts agreed to in the terms of the total contract.

 

[John813]

I'm not begrudging anyone of exercising their rights.

Teams have the right to cut players if they feel they're not worth the money. That's not honoring the original contract both parties agreed to.

And Elliott has the right to stay away and hold out for more money.

And the Cowboys have the right not to pay him more than they're comfortable with. And they have the right to fine him, under the CBA. And the also have the right to sign or trade for any running back they choose in an effort to replace him.

All parties involved are within their rights to act they way they are.

IMO A team is only on the hook for the guaranteed money.
Term wise, I don't think they have to honor anything, except they'll keep underachievers longer than they want to due to potential excessive dead cap.
Both sides agree to these 5-6 year deals only to make the cap hits work.
Player gets a signing bonus, agent gets paid, and the team can manipulate the cap early on.

A player can force their way out of contracts/teams as well. We saw it with Ratliff and Brown threw a hissy fit.

I would be all for more % of the contracts being guaranteed and it's slowly going that way, especially with the QB market.

 

[Stash]

IMO A team is only on the hook for the guaranteed money.

Legally? Of course.

Term wise, I don't think they have to honor anything, except they'll keep underachievers longer than they want to due to potential excessive dead cap.
Both sides agree to these 5-6 year deals only to make the cap hits work.
Player gets a signing bonus, agent gets paid, and the team can manipulate the cap early on.

Players don't care about "cap hits", they care about guaranteed money.

A player can force their way out of contracts/teams as well. We saw it with Ratliff and Brown threw a hissy fit.

I would be all for more % of the contracts being guaranteed and it's slowly going that way, especially with the QB market.

I'm not making a statement on what the "prefect" system would be, I'm just speaking on this current arrangement.

 

[NotForLong]

The main issue I have with Zeke is the timing. This is not the year to hold out. He has 2 years left on his current deal and we have other players we must sign THIS year. I get the man wants his money and all that and I don't blame him for wanting that but after everything this team has done for him to hold out this year is just wrong. He should have showed up to camp and getting prepared to play this year. Most of the time, I don't think the players owe a team anything, do what you go to do to get yours, after all, you are one play away from retirement every day. So I get it.. but in this case, I think Zeke does owe Jerry and the FO something, after they have went to battle for him. To me this is just him spitting in the face of Jerry after everything Jerry has done for him and that is what makes me the most upset about this. If I was Jerry, I wouldn't budge, play or stay at home and get 0 money, those are the two options if I am Jerry.

Its the perfect time. He knows without him Dak Sucks so Holdout before they pay Dak.

Forces the issue. Jerry will have egg on his face if he pays Dak a huge contract and struggles (Which they will) without Zeke. . . The whole Country will have to finally come to the realization of the Value of Zeke.

If Zeke plays and Dak Shines this year, then it will be used against Zeke. . . The talking point will be that Zeke is not as important as he believes. That the Cowboys were right in paying Dak because of the importance of the QB position.

This will force the issue because it will leave the Cowboys Exposed . . . the RB's backing up are talented but its their durability that is in question. I've seen RB's like this break down after 1 or 2 games after taking the lead role

It was a Genius move to do it 2 years early and after the draft. In our offense you need a high pick 1-3 rd RB that can hold up.

 

[kskboys]

The point is that some on this board say that owners are not honoring the contract because players can get cut.

And that is absolutely not true.

 

[aikemirv]

Its the perfect time. He knows without him Dak Sucks so Holdout before they pay Dak.

Forces the issue. Jerry will have egg on his face if he pays Dak a huge contract and struggles (Which they will) without Zeke. . . The whole Country will have to finally come to the realization of the Value of Zeke.

If Zeke plays and Dak Shines this year, then it will be used against Zeke. . . The talking point will be that Zeke is not as important as he believes. That the Cowboys were right in paying Dak because of the importance of the QB position.

This will force the issue because it will leave the Cowboys Exposed . . . the RB's backing up are talented but its their durability that is in question. I've seen RB's like this break down after 1 or 2 games after taking the lead role

It was a Genius move to do it 2 years early and after the draft. In our offense you need a high pick 1-3 rd RB that can hold up.

Genius move unless the Cowboys call his bluff - then he is up a creek with fines and having to show up and trade and franchise tag wars. But, I agree with you on all the implications regarding Dak. If I am Jerry however, and a bit on the fence in the back of my mind on Dak, then Zeke holding out is an opportunity regarding Daks value.

 

[kskboys]

Which is not the same as the full amounts agreed to in the terms of the total contract.

Sure, but the full amounts agreed to have stipulations that they don't have to be paid.

 

[Stash]

Sure, but the full amounts agreed to have stipulations that they don't have to be paid.

Right, that's why i said legally they have the right. But it is not the same as "honoring the contract." Not when the 5-year $100 million contract is terminated after 3-years, $60 million.

 

[dckid]

Or more importantly, to replace them.

The fact is that the Cowboys offense is the ideal situation for any running back in the league. Nowhere will you find more of an investment having been made in the offensive line and running game. No other team has such a commitment to it either. The conditions are perfect for any prospective running back. Just the way they were for:

1. Demarco Murray
2. Darren McFadden
3. Ezekiel Elliott
4. The next running back

The pattern of success is both clear and irrefutable. This team was successful running the ball before Elliott, and they will be successful after him as well. That's not taking away from his obvious abilities, it's a statement of fact, with the productivity and statistics to back it up. Devoid of emotion.

I agree with you on many levels. Because of the Cowboy infrastructure I would have not drafted Zeke, I would have drafted Ramsey.
To play devils advocate, Zeke is a top 3 RB talent no doubt about that. We are stuck with him no matter how this contract turns out. We need to limit his carries to less that 20 a game, and involve him more in the passing game. My concern now is how do we get 8 years out of this player? I hate drafting a guy in the first round who will lose 20% of his skill by the second contract. This is not my opinion, its practically a fact as most RB's are done by 28, 29 years old.

 

[Bob-Lillys-War]

Bottom line , paying huge amounts of money to a few will only lead us nowhere .
We will be full of JAGS with 5 to 10 players who are decent .
That will never bring us another ring , because we would have to rely on coaching the JAGS , strategy, game plan, scheme, etc...

 

[Batman1980]

I agree with you on many levels. Because of the Cowboy infrastructure I would have not drafted Zeke, I would have drafted Ramsey.
To play devils advocate, Zeke is a top 3 RB talent no doubt about that. We are stuck with him no matter how this contract turns out. We need to limit his carries to less that 20 a game, and involve him more in the passing game. My concern now is how do we get 8 years out of this player? I hate drafting a guy in the first round who will lose 20% of his skill by the second contract. This is not my opinion, its practically a fact as most RB's are done by 28, 29 years old.

Most disposable position in the NFL.

 

[aikemirv]

Right, that's why i said legally they have the right. But it is not the same as "honoring the contract." Not when the 5-year $100 million contract is terminated after 3-years, $60 million.

Well, if you are not talking about honoring the contract in a legal sense, then you are talking about and expectation sense. In that case the expectation is that the back end of these contracts will not get paid in a lot of cases. The expectation also is that the player is going to play for the terms of that contract. You might say that the expectations are that the player will hold out towards the end as well. So if Zeke were in the 5th year, I would expect, and the Cowboys would not be surprised if he held out. I don't think the Cowboys expected him to hold out this year.

 

[NotForLong]

Genius move unless the Cowboys call his bluff - then he is up a creek with fines and having to show up and trade and franchise tag wars. But, I agree with you on all the implications regarding Dak. If I am Jerry however, and a bit on the fence in the back of my mind on Dak, then Zeke holding out is an opportunity regarding Daks value.

Exactly, I am willing to watch Zeke hold out for 2-3 games and see what Dak can do.

If he struggles you can save about 7 million on his contract

If he lights it up . . . Then pay the Man and you have your Franchise QB

 

[Stash]

I agree with you on many levels. Because of the Cowboy infrastructure I would have not drafted Zeke, I would have drafted Ramsey.
To play devils advocate, Zeke is a top 3 RB talent no doubt about that. We are stuck with him no matter how this contract turns out. We need to limit his carries to less that 20 a game, and involve him more in the passing game. My concern now is how do we get 8 years out of this player? I hate drafting a guy in the first round who will lose 20% of his skill by the second contract. This is not my opinion, its practically a fact as most RB's are done by 28, 29 years old.

To be honest, the move had never added up to me from the day they made it. I was never on the "draft Zeke!" bandwagon. Not because he wasn't obviously a great player, but because the Cowboys made their investment already, in the offensive line. The "plan" was to have a dominant line that made running backs, so you wouldn't need to invest so heavily in a superstar at the position. The same plan that Super Bowl winning teams are making.

But then, on top of investing three 1st round picks in the line, they decided to use the best pick they had in decades on a running back. Overkill.

And, as good as Elliott has been, he's never surpassed the year that third round pick Demarco Murray had in 2014. Anyone care to call that great return on investment? No, didn't think so.

 

[Stash]

Well, if you are not talking about honoring the contract in a legal sense, then you are talking about and expectation sense. In that case the expectation is that the back end of these contracts will not get paid in a lot of cases. The expectation also is that the player is going to play for the terms of that contract. You might say that the expectations are that the player will hold out towards the end as well. So if Zeke were in the 5th year, I would expect, and the Cowboys would not be surprised if he held out. I don't think the Cowboys expected him to hold out this year.

I'm talking about the entirety of the contract. All of the terms, not just some. Where a 5-year deal is actually a 5-year deal. It's not hard to figure out.

 

[ChuckA1]

Feelings ..... nothing more than ..... feelings.[

Not feelings Amigo, opinions. Just like you, everyone has one and gets to share it here.

 

[BatteryPowered]

Some good points here my friend and I don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying.

But something else to think about from a player's perspective. A player’s window of time to make the most money in their life is between 4-6 years in this league. Compared to the other major sports leagues, NFL players make a smaller piece of the pie despite being the most important piece of the NFL product. I don’t like Zeke’s holdout- I think it is wrong with two years left on his contract. But the owners bear some responsibility here because of the way they have set up the player's power to bargain.

You almost never see holdouts in the NBA, MLB and the NHL. Players in those leagues have better contractual rights and make a higher percentage of the league's profits.

Again, I don’t like these holdouts either. But the owners are just as much to blame for them as the players in my opinion.

Can't agree with this. It's not the owners fault the players (through the NFLPA) have no resolve and determination. The MLBPA is powerful because they are willing to sacrifice and can do so because of the length of their careers. But they sacrifice for future players most of the time. The NFLPA will not do that. These athletes chose the wrong sport if they want a long career. It's hard for the few that play for 10-15 years and make huge money to convince some poor schmuck to give up 25% of their career earnings for "a cause"...but that is what it will take. Until the players decide "Screw this. We will negotiate on D, E and F but if we don't get A, B and C there will be no season, there will be no playoffs and there will be no Super Bowl." That is what it will take for the NFLPA to gain power...and that isn't going to happen.

It is a partnership between the players and the owners. Right now, the owners are making the most money. Until the players decide to take a stand and stick with it, nothing will change and that is not the fault of the owners.

 

[NotForLong]

Most disposable position in the NFL.

Unless the RB's name is Elliott then No not Disposable.