How about trade down

[Future]

There’s plenty of guys that would get significant snaps in the 20s that wouldn’t just be “rotational” players.

I understand you’re a Ruggs fan but he’d be WR3 on a team that loves to run the ball...add in the bust rate and injury concerns of smaller speed guys and it’s a hard pass for me.

No I mean in what you get in return. You'd be trading Ruggs for, say, Fulton and whoever in the third round. It's the second guy who is likely rotational. I'm not making that trade.

Dallas doesn't love to run the ball anymore. Jason Garrett is gone, this will be a pass-first offense. When it was good last year, it was that way too. And, they're primarily in 11 personnel. The 3rd WR is a starter.

 

[cnuball21]

No I mean in what you get in return. You'd be trading Ruggs for, say, Fulton and whoever in the third round. It's the second guy who is likely rotational. I'm not making that trade.

Dallas doesn't love to run the ball anymore. Jason Garrett is gone, this will be a pass-first offense. When it was good last year, it was that way too. And, they're primarily in 11 personnel. The 3rd WR is a starter.

Fulton and a 3rd round WR this year is potentially someone like Pittman / Claypool / Edwards with how loaded the class is. This year there is a good chance you can get a 2nd round WR in the 3rd. If we take a 3rd round WR, I’m fairly confident that player can become our #3 WR this year and start. So yes, I’d 100% rather have that and take advantage of the loaded WR class to maximize value in the draft.

And how do you know we’re a passing team until you actually see what we do? We have a solid OL and Elliot is arguably the best player on the team so until proven otherwise as long as we’re close in games I think we’re going to try and run the ball a lot.

 

[Future]

Fulton and a 3rd round WR this year is potentially someone like Pittman / Claypool / Edwards with how loaded the class is. This year there is a good chance you can get a 2nd round WR in the 3rd. If we take a 3rd round WR, I’m fairly confident that player can become our #3 WR this year and start. So yes, I’d 100% rather have that and take advantage of the loaded WR class to maximize value in the draft.

And how do you know we’re a passing team until you actually see what we do? We have a solid OL and Elliot is arguably the best player on the team so until proven otherwise as long as we’re close in games I think we’re going to try and run the ball a lot.

I wouldn't trade Ruggs for Fulton/Pittman. That's a significant downgrade at WR, especially considering what this offense needs, and Fulton isn't really much of an upgrade to any of the next 6-7 CBs. Fulton wouldn't be a day 1 starter on this team.

B/c they pass to set up the run. That's how the NFL is. Forcing the run is stupid, and was a Jason Garrett thing. They will exploit matchups, and they are generally found in the passing game, especially when you have Zeke. Running the ball a lot is what hurt this offense all the time last year.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

Fulton and a 3rd round WR this year is potentially someone like Pittman / Claypool / Edwards with how loaded the class is. This year there is a good chance you can get a 2nd round WR in the 3rd. If we take a 3rd round WR, I’m fairly confident that player can become our #3 WR this year and start. So yes, I’d 100% rather have that and take advantage of the loaded WR class to maximize value in the draft.

And how do you know we’re a passing team until you actually see what we do? We have a solid OL and Elliot is arguably the best player on the team so until proven otherwise as long as we’re close in games I think we’re going to try and run the ball a lot.

If Okudah, Simmons, or Lamb somehow fall in range to move up costing us a 3rd I'd do that without thinking.
1st: Okudah or Simmons
2nd: Aiyuk

1st: Lamb
2nd: Jaylon Johnson or Damon Arnette

 

[cnuball21]

I wouldn't trade Ruggs for Fulton/Pittman. That's a significant downgrade at WR, especially considering what this offense needs, and Fulton isn't really much of an upgrade to any of the next 6-7 CBs. Fulton wouldn't be a day 1 starter on this team.

B/c they pass to set up the run. That's how the NFL is. Forcing the run is stupid, and was a Jason Garrett thing. They will exploit matchups, and they are generally found in the passing game, especially when you have Zeke. Running the ball a lot is what hurt this offense all the time last year.

I think Pittman has solid #2 WR potential, which is fairly similar to Ruggs IMO. They just win in a different way. Ruggs will never be a 1 in the NFL. We picked Cobb off the street and he played at a decent level for a #3. So no, not really a downgrade IMO, and honestly you could get a guy a round later that could fill in the slot and be fine.

After Okudah / Henderson, Fulton / Gladney / Johnson are in the next tier for me. I don't see 6/7 guys at the same level so disagree again. Fulton is a slightly better version of Chido, so while he'd take some rookie bruises, I think he'd see significant snaps in year one.

We don't need to force the run, and I don't want to, but we should run more than most because we have arguably the best RB in football.

 

[cnuball21]

If Okudah, Simmons, or Lamb somehow fall in range to move up costing us a 3rd I'd do that without thinking.
1st: Okudah or Simmons
2nd: Aiyuk

1st: Lamb
2nd: Jaylon Johnson or Damon Arnette

I'm in if this happens. Lamb ain't fallen though...WR1 for me. Call me crazy, but I think teams will get dumb and draft Ruggs ahead of Juedy and there is a small chance he might fall to us.

He is the PERFECT WR for our offense IMO. Another elite route runner to pair with Coop and Dak would be carving for days.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

I'm in if this happens. Lamb ain't fallen though...WR1 for me. Call me crazy, but I think teams will get dumb and draft Ruggs ahead of Juedy and there is a small chance he might fall to us.

He is the PERFECT WR for our offense IMO. Another elite route runner to pair with Coop and Dak would be carving for days.

I like Juedy, but not on the level of Lamb and I would not be mad at that pick at all. He would be the highest player on the board.

 

[cnuball21]

I like Juedy, but not on the level of Lamb and I would not be mad at that pick at all. He would be the highest player on the board.

Agreed. Lamb is better without question for me but I think Juedy is an incredibly safe WR prospect due to how easy he separates with his routes and quickness.

I’d take him in a heartbeat at 17 even though it’s not a huge need.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

Agreed. Lamb is better without question for me but I think Juedy is an incredibly safe WR prospect due to how easy he separates with his routes and quickness.

I’d take him in a heartbeat at 17 even though it’s not a huge need.

I'm so tired of us going for need, and especially scheme specific players vs getting the best damn player available.

Taco Vs Watt
Hill last year because they feel DT is more important than all those S who were better players
Leighton over DJ Moore or Ridley
We need to draft based off the board not anything else.

 

[cnuball21]

I'm so tired of us going for need, and especially scheme specific players vs getting the best damn player available.

Taco Vs Watt
Hill last year because they feel DT is more important than all those S who were better players
Leighton over DJ Moore or Ridley
We need to draft based off the board not anything else.

Agree 100%. I would’ve taken Watt over Taco.

LVE vs the WRs is TBD depending on his health...if he can bounce back he’s shown he’s the better player.

This year will be interesting bc if I had to guess BPA will be an OT.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

Agree 100%. I would’ve taken Watt over Taco.

LVE vs the WRs is TBD depending on his health...if he can bounce back he’s shown he’s the better player.

This year will be interesting bc if I had to guess BPA will be an OT.

The neck injuries were a known issue, that would have dropped him out of 1st round considerations. I called for Warner, and I think you were on the Leonard train in the 2nd round if I remember correctly.

We could have had our WR, and LB although I loved the Gallup pick which is why he has been my profile pick since they selected him. The one I think most of us wanted was Derwin, and it would have cost us less than a 3rd to get him.

Hindsight 20/20 but imagine.
2017
1st RD: TJ Watt
2nd RD: Awuzie
3rd RD: Jordan Lewis
2018
1st RD: Derwin James
2nd RD: Fred Warner
3rd RD: Michael Gallup
2019
2nd RD: Nasir Adderly, Taylor Rapp, Juan Thornhill

These were all picks the message boards wanted.

 

[cnuball21]

The neck injuries were a known issue, that would have dropped him out of 1st round considerations. I called for Warner, and I think you were on the Leonard train in the 2nd round if I remember correctly.

We could have had our WR, and LB although I loved the Gallup pick which is why he has been my profile pick since they selected him. The one I think most of us wanted was Derwin, and it would have cost us less than a 3rd to get him.

Hindsight 20/20 but imagine.
2017
1st RD: TJ Watt
2nd RD: Awuzie
3rd RD: Jordan Lewis
2018
1st RD: Derwin James
2nd RD: Fred Warner
3rd RD: Michael Gallup
2019
2nd RD: Nasir Adderly, Taylor Rapp, Juan Thornhill

These were all picks the message boards wanted.

I guess it just depends on how serious the injury was in relation to long term effects. I honestly have no idea what the team knew so can’t say.

 

[Future]

I think Pittman has solid #2 WR potential, which is fairly similar to Ruggs IMO. They just win in a different way. Ruggs will never be a 1 in the NFL. We picked Cobb off the street and he played at a decent level for a #3. So no, not really a downgrade IMO, and honestly you could get a guy a round later that could fill in the slot and be fine.

After Okudah / Henderson, Fulton / Gladney / Johnson are in the next tier for me. I don't see 6/7 guys at the same level so disagree again. Fulton is a slightly better version of Chido, so while he'd take some rookie bruises, I think he'd see significant snaps in year one.

We don't need to force the run, and I don't want to, but we should run more than most because we have arguably the best RB in football.

Sure. Dallas doesn't need a #2. It needs a speed threat. It doesn't matter what number they are on the depth chart...with 11 personnel being the priority, they're all starters.

Fulton isn't better than Chido. Absolutely nothing to suggest that, and I don't buy that any of those guys will be any better pros than Arnette, Hall, Pride, etc.

We have the best RB in football, which means that teams have to commit a safety to stop it, so we should throw more. It is about exploiting matchups, and they will be there in the passing game. The "we have the best RB in football, let's run" was a Jason Garrett staple, and it crippled the offense.

 

[cnuball21]

Sure. Dallas doesn't need a #2. It needs a speed threat. It doesn't matter what number they are on the depth chart...with 11 personnel being the priority, they're all starters.

Fulton isn't better than Chido. Absolutely nothing to suggest that, and I don't buy that any of those guys will be any better pros than Arnette, Hall, Pride, etc.

We have the best RB in football, which means that teams have to commit a safety to stop it, so we should throw more. It is about exploiting matchups, and they will be there in the passing game. The "we have the best RB in football, let's run" was a Jason Garrett staple, and it crippled the offense.

We need a 3rd WR, it doesn’t have to be a speed threat. Guys can get open and win in numerous ways, and as mentioned, the class is loaded and we can get a solid player in mid rounds that can win.

That’s fine if you think Arnette / Pride / Hall etc are on the same level as Fulton, but just about every analyst / site / rating out there would disagree with you.

 

[Future]

We need a 3rd WR, it doesn’t have to be a speed threat. Guys can get open and win in numerous ways, and as mentioned, the class is loaded and we can get a solid player in mid rounds that can win.

That’s fine if you think Arnette / Pride / Hall etc are on the same level as Fulton, but just about every analyst / site / rating out there would disagree with you.

Doesn't have to be, but it should. That's the biggest element missing from the offense, and it's easier for everyone else to get open when there is a threat over the top.

It's not that they're on the same level as a prospect, specifically, it's that their impact as a pro will be about the same. It's not like Fulton is going to be Stephon Gilmore and Hall is going to be...idk pick a scrub lol. They're all just going to be average corners.

 

[cnuball21]

Doesn't have to be, but it should. That's the biggest element missing from the offense, and it's easier for everyone else to get open when there is a threat over the top.

It's not that they're on the same level as a prospect, specifically, it's that their impact as a pro will be about the same. It's not like Fulton is going to be Stephon Gilmore and Hall is going to be...idk pick a scrub lol. They're all just going to be average corners.

We have Cooper who runs very well. Him being 100% healthy will help stretch the field if we’d actually give him more of those routes which I’m hoping McC will. I’m fine with targeting a speed type guy I just want no part of that in the top 20 for the reasons mentioned.

Disagree on Fulton. You rate and grade prospects based off of the impact you think they’ll have. If he’s one of the top 3-5 CB prospects in the draft he should have a bigger impact than the top 6-10 guys as it should translate to the NFL. I think he has high #2 potential, where as some of those guys below him might have low #2 or nickel potential. Doesn’t seem like much, but that could be the difference between the opposing. number 2 WR being quiet or shredding you.

 

[Future]

We have Cooper who runs very well. Him being 100% healthy will help stretch the field if we’d actually give him more of those routes which I’m hoping McC will. I’m fine with targeting a speed type guy I just want no part of that in the top 20 for the reasons mentioned.

Disagree on Fulton. You rate and grade prospects based off of the impact you think they’ll have. If he’s one of the top 3-5 CB prospects in the draft he should have a bigger impact than the top 6-10 guys as it should translate to the NFL. I think he has high #2 potential, where as some of those guys below him might have low #2 or nickel potential. Doesn’t seem like much, but that could be the difference between the opposing. number 2 WR being quiet or shredding you.

Cooper is not a speed threat, and that's not what he does best anyway, so asking him to be a burner is undermining his skill set. The speed guy in the top 20 allows Cooper, Gallup, Jarwin and the run game to operate better, because it forces defense to deploy a safety over it. NFL offenses today are numbers game, and you need players to dictate that - speed in particular.

This just isn't how it usually plays out, especially for corners. There are like 5 difference-making corners in the NFL. Fulton isn't going to be one of them, and I really doubt even Henderson will. There is really no difference between a #2 and #3 corner, b/c of how much nickel teams play, and how few passes are thrown out of 2 WR sets. The difference between a high #2 and low #2 is basically non-existent. Chido was a high #2 last year and would have been a #1 on a lot of teams, but it's not like he's a game changer.

 

[kskboys]

We need a 3rd WR, it doesn’t have to be a speed threat. Guys can get open and win in numerous ways, and as mentioned, the class is loaded and we can get a solid player in mid rounds that can win.

That’s fine if you think Arnette / Pride / Hall etc are on the same level as Fulton, but just about every analyst / site / rating out there would disagree with you.

I like Fulton, mostly, but he's got some pretty good bust potential what w/ his suspension and propensity to avoid tackles.

 

[Jbone100]

I like the idea of trading back a few spots and drafting K. Fulton or J. Johnson. Neither corner is likely to be a shutdown corner but I think they're both guys that should be coveted by Dallas because they're both decent at everything (press man, press zone, off man). Sure, neither is shutdown at press man or press zone but Riley usually asks his DBs to do a lot of different things and that makes either of these guys a great fit, but they could be had at pick 25 or so. I would love it if we traded back, took one of those players, then went WR (Pittman) in the 2nd while adding an extra pick in the process. Then go all defense after Pittman so that we can build our depth back up on that side of the ball.

 

[kskboys]

Cooper is not a speed threat, and that's not what he does best anyway, so asking him to be a burner is undermining his skill set. The speed guy in the top 20 allows Cooper, Gallup, Jarwin and the run game to operate better, because it forces defense to deploy a safety over it. NFL offenses today are numbers game, and you need players to dictate that - speed in particular.

This just isn't how it usually plays out, especially for corners. There are like 5 difference-making corners in the NFL. Fulton isn't going to be one of them, and I really doubt even Henderson will. There is really no difference between a #2 and #3 corner, b/c of how much nickel teams play, and how few passes are thrown out of 2 WR sets. The difference between a high #2 and low #2 is basically non-existent. Chido was a high #2 last year and would have been a #1 on a lot of teams, but it's not like he's a game changer.

I agree w/ your 2nd paragraph.

Problem is, we're simply not going to advance in the playoffs until we fix our D. And that starts up front. Poe and McCoy are a nice start, but they are bandages.

Speed WR's can almost always be found in the mid rounds. Reagor, Aiyuk, Hamler, Hightower, Jeff Thomas, there's a bunch of guys this year who can fly, no need to look for your deep guy in the 1st. That's generally a waste of resources.