How do we fix the DT position?

[cnuball21]

Stop ignoring the ability to anchor...Rod and co. were so enamored with quick twitch athletes that they ignored guys that could anchor and play the run.

 

[Cowboyny]

I agree 100%, fixing the run defense has to be the #1 priority. DT, LB and DE are the keys to improving the defense, quickly. The secondary will improve through osmosis with a better front 7.
With who they signed in FA it kind of suggests that they finally realize what they need. And just because they signed guys already doesn't mean they no longer need them. It signals that they realize they are deficient in those areas, so lets hope they continue to address those key spots.

To me the order of the positions that will have the greatest impact on this defense goes:
1T, DE, LB, FS, CB, 3T
Now we all have hope that our new DC and return to a normal scheme will help the guys we have improve, we obviously still need to get better across the board at all of these positions.

But the way this draft is set up and the numbers of current roster spots indicates a huge need to get some DB's and early. Obviously no 1T is getting pick at 10 so a CB is most likely but IMHO, a DE (Phillips) is a remote possibility. FS or LB is probably next with DT being a remote possibility here but most likely down the list a another spot or two.
But as long as it's a mixture of quality players at those positions, I don't much care as to when they're picked.

-You can argue every level needs help, but we won't be able to address everything in 1 draft class. Think the focus should be finding immediate help at DT, CB & S.

 

[HungryLion]

You fix the DT position and the run defense and the interior pass rush by actually prioritizing it and seriously addressing it. Just look at the ‘needs’ posted by one poster above. Somehow DT is number 4 on the list with CB being number 1. People just don’t get it .



get a highly rated DT in rd 1-2 and then a 1T in rd 3-4 but unfortunately we will continue with our CB fascination

When you right. You right.

 

[Cowboyny]

Stop ignoring the ability to anchor...Rod and co. were so enamored with quick twitch athletes that they ignored guys that could anchor and play the run.

Quinn's scheme utilizes 3-4 type of personnel in his base defense to stop the run. He also has his strong safety lined up inside the box.

 

[quickccc]

Last year the team was god awful against the run. Poe was a major fa bust, both Hill/Gallimore were forced to see starting reps before they were ready as McCoy couldn't even make it out of camp. Crawford appeared done, now he is retired. All this said, the worst probably is that the new staff forced a new scheme in which they didn't have the personnel for.

I think going back to a similar scheme as Marinelli's, will do wonders for many of the players. However, the talent within the interior has to get better. Signing Urban is a start as he is considered a very good two down player.

How do we fix the DL position?

-#1 priority for me is to fix the run defense, without that, you can forget about rushing the passer. Team has reportedly looked at Marvin Wilson, Tommy Togiai and Milton Williams. Not your traditional NT's, but players who are strong against the run. I would even do the Mike Zimmer here and start Urban and one of these three in the base defense to stop the run.

-Need interior pass rushers. Run players will come off in the nickel. We need interior rushers to push the pocket and force the action to the Edges. Yes, Barmore would be an ideal fit, but I'm more looking at Edge players who are base run defensive ends, that can kick inside against the pass: Basham, Turner, Weaver, Sample, Milton Williams*

- I’m not giving up hope and opportunity to the last two young DTs I have already invested in and just need time to be positioned correctly and coached up.
That’s the only way we will get the best chance to see what Hill and Gallimore can do.

- For one, Gallimore is not a 1 tech in which Tomsula seems content in wanting him to play that role – while Antwann Woods is just a mere rotation guy (who I’d liked to upgrade over anyway) he operates best off the bench when he is fresher, playing spot duty than starting, where he tends to wear down and

- Neither one is polished, experienced, technically sound yet in playing the run, so it was imperative for us to acquire a sound 1 tech run stuffer. Problem is Stephen Jones does not want to believe or invest in that role that way, and somehow Marinelli philosophy has brain washed him. Speaking of Marinelli why would be going backwards into a Marinelli style ?
A guy who does not believe in a big body stuffer (although Jonanthan Hankins has surprisingly played 2 str8 years wth Marinelli) gets down on rookies, and has to have certain size, hand in dirt edge player. And has a flawing run gap scheme.

- McCoy was probably done the minute Carolina moved on without him, that quad will always be a blink of another tear even if there is talk of him returning, I’ve very low expectations,

and if he wants to be a Buc than a Cowboys , bless him to move on. Poe was definitely done.

 

[MarkP88]

Last year the team was god awful against the run. Poe was a major fa bust, both Hill/Gallimore were forced to see starting reps before they were ready as McCoy couldn't even make it out of camp. Crawford appeared done, now he is retired. All this said, the worst probably is that the new staff forced a new scheme in which they didn't have the personnel for.

I think going back to a similar scheme as Marinelli's, will do wonders for many of the players. However, the talent within the interior has to get better. Signing Urban is a start as he is considered a very good two down player.

How do we fix the DL position?

-#1 priority for me is to fix the run defense, without that, you can forget about rushing the passer. Team has reportedly looked at Marvin Wilson, Tommy Togiai and Milton Williams. Not your traditional NT's, but players who are strong against the run. I would even do the Mike Zimmer here and start Urban and one of these three in the base defense to stop the run.

-Need interior pass rushers. Run players will come off in the nickel. We need interior rushers to push the pocket and force the action to the Edges. Yes, Barmore would be an ideal fit, but I'm more looking at Edge players who are base run defensive ends, that can kick inside against the pass: Basham, Turner, Weaver, Sample, Milton Williams*

I would say step one is to actually value the position as part of your core team-building philosophy. You look at the team's draft for the last 15 or 20 years and it's obvious little value is put on the interior DL. Compare that with the number of times we draft corners high and it's clear there's no real governing philosophy on how you build a defense. You can see it every time we give up a ton of passing yards in a year, the next year the ruling assumption is, "oh my god, we need defensive backs, we gave up so many passing yards!" Ignoring the fact that corners are highly dependent on the front seven, especially the front four. (Look at our own team records and see how our seasons with most interceptions correlate with seasons where we recorded a lot of sacks.)

Of course, the team seems to too often employ a whack-a-mole philosophy to team building overall. The team does best when it resists that temptation.

 

[Cowboyny]

I would say step one is to actually value the position as part of your core team-building philosophy. You look at the team's draft for the last 15 or 20 years and it's obvious little value is put on the interior DL. Compare that with the number of times we draft corners high and it's clear there's no real governing philosophy on how you build a defense. You can see it every time we give up a ton of passing yards in a year, the next year the ruling assumption is, "oh my god, we need defensive backs, we gave up so many passing yards!" Ignoring the fact that corners are highly dependent on the front seven, especially the front four. (Look at our own team records and see how our seasons with most interceptions correlate with seasons where we recorded a lot of sacks.)

Of course, the team seems to too often employ a whack-a-mole philosophy to team building overall. The team does best when it resists that temptation.

The only encouraging news is, they did signed two fa veterans for Nolan and drafted Gallimore at the position. I think Marinelli was the major driving force why they didn't prioritze the 1T position. It's up to Quinn to demand the position get filled with quality options not street fa's or late draft picks. I will and many will be disappointed if we don't see a quality option not draft by the end of rd 4, if not higher.

 

[Cowboyny]

- I’m not giving up hope and opportunity to the last two young DTs I have already invested in and just need time to be positioned correctly and coached up.
That’s the only way we will get the best chance to see what Hill and Gallimore can do.

- For one, Gallimore is not a 1 tech in which Tomsula seems content in wanting him to play that role – while Antwann Woods is just a mere rotation guy (who I’d liked to upgrade over anyway) he operates best off the bench when he is fresher, playing spot duty than starting, where he tends to wear down and

- Neither one is polished, experienced, technically sound yet in playing the run, so it was imperative for us to acquire a sound 1 tech run stuffer. Problem is Stephen Jones does not want to believe or invest in that role that way, and somehow Marinelli philosophy has brain washed him. Speaking of Marinelli why would be going backwards into a Marinelli style ?
A guy who does not believe in a big body stuffer (although Jonanthan Hankins has surprisingly played 2 str8 years wth Marinelli) gets down on rookies, and has to have certain size, hand in dirt edge player. And has a flawing run gap scheme.

- McCoy was probably done the minute Carolina moved on without him, that quad will always be a blink of another tear even if there is talk of him returning, I’ve very low expectations,

and if he wants to be a Buc than a Cowboys , bless him to move on. Poe was definitely done.

Is it Stephen or was it Marinelli or both? They did spend resources last year at the position by signing Poe/McCoy and using another top 100 pick in Gallimore.

Rumor was last year, the defensive staff wasn't good teachers, but Quinn is. Hopefully, he will help develop the likes of Hill/Gallimore. Think Urban is our starter at the 1T, he is reportedly a very good run player. Would like to find a long-term answer at the position. Tommy Togiai is a name many have brought up, he is like Stephen Paeu, little undersized, but country strong and knows how to use leverage. He could have the ability to also play some at the 3 down the line. Right now, more of a two down run defender.

 

[quickccc]

Is it Stephen or was it Marinelli or both? They did spend resources last year at the position by signing Poe/McCoy and using another top 100 pick in Gallimore.

Rumor was last year, the defensive staff wasn't good teachers, but Quinn is. Hopefully, he will help develop the likes of Hill/Gallimore. Think Urban is our starter at the 1T, he is reportedly a very good run player. Would like to find a long-term answer at the position. Tommy Togiai is a name many have brought up, he is like Stephen Paeu, little undersized, but country strong and knows how to use leverage. He could have the ability to also play some at the 3 down the line. Right now, more of a two down run defender.

Once we’ve seen the disappointing results of the spent resources, then we should still be re-grouping, re-planning, and be ever proactive.
We don’t get style points or be handed a Lombardi trophy for trying.

- And BTW, we didn’t spend much resources in bringing in the bargain based ex-pro bowlers. That was a Money Ball offseason maneuver to which I really didn’t have any problem with -so long as we
still place the younger heir apparent in position.

- Basically meaning bringing in a mentor vet DT like McCoy, to side with the youngsters Hill/Gallimore, but not counting on McCoy to be the front line savior for the issues at DT.
Yes we have spent resources with the 3 tech role in Hill/Gallimore ,..but what about that ever problematic, 1 tech big run stuffer role ?

- I recalled a post where they declared Quinn has not had a 330+ run stuffer in his Seattle/ATL but I don’t believe that’s not accurate as Dontari Poe was in ATL defense.

- So long as we have someone that can prove he can play bigger than what his size suggest, I don’t care if he’s 295 pounds, but when you have notable proven vet run stuffers that were available in FA, we don’t’ have the time for Money Ball approaches and experiments.

- Frankly all of this “ Teacher “ stuff is just a grain of salt with me at this point. We supposedly had good teachers with long tenure reputations with help in Kris Richard, Marinelli, Tomsula, Edwards, Al Harris, etc. But the bottom line is ever present defensive issues for past years and years

- Urban ? sorry but it’s just a complete wait and see as I’m not over optimistic about that.
We’ve already been there and done that, been down that familiar road, with supposedly chancing other low bargain run stuff guys such as average joes such as Antwann Woods, Chris Covington, Richard Ash, Terrell McClain, etc ..and certainly didn’t help matters ith the useless Crawford getting pin-balled around all year, that only added to the interior mess.

 

[quickccc]

Is it Stephen or was it Marinelli or both? They did spend resources last year at the position by signing Poe/McCoy and using another top 100 pick in Gallimore.

Rumor was last year, the defensive staff wasn't good teachers, but Quinn is. Hopefully, he will help develop the likes of Hill/Gallimore. Think Urban is our starter at the 1T, he is reportedly a very good run player. Would like to find a long-term answer at the position. Tommy Togiai is a name many have brought up, he is like Stephen Paeu, little undersized, but country strong and knows how to use leverage. He could have the ability to also play some at the 3 down the line. Right now, more of a two down run defender.

the ghost of Marinelli has gone to Sin City Las Vegas. yet do we still play low regards to the 1 tech role ?

 

[Cowboyny]

Once we’ve seen the disappointing results of the spent resources, then we should still be re-grouping, re-planning, and be ever proactive.
We don’t get style points or be handed a Lombardi trophy for trying.

- And BTW, we didn’t spend much resources in bringing in the bargain based ex-pro bowlers. That was a Money Ball offseason maneuver to which I really didn’t have any problem with -so long as we
still place the younger heir apparent in position.

- Basically meaning bringing in a mentor vet DT like McCoy, to side with the youngsters Hill/Gallimore, but not counting on McCoy to be the front line savior for the issues at DT.
Yes we have spent resources with the 3 tech role in Hill/Gallimore ,..but what about that ever problematic, 1 tech big run stuffer role ?

- I recalled a post where they declared Quinn has not had a 330+ run stuffer in his Seattle/ATL but I don’t believe that’s not accurate as Dontari Poe was in ATL defense.

- So long as we have someone that can prove he can play bigger than what his size suggest, I don’t care if he’s 295 pounds, but when you have notable proven vet run stuffers that were available in FA, we don’t’ have the time for Money Ball approaches and experiments.

- Frankly all of this “ Teacher “ stuff is just a grain of salt with me at this point. We supposedly had good teachers with long tenure reputations with help in Kris Richard, Marinelli, Tomsula, Edwards, Al Harris, etc. But the bottom line is ever present defensive issues for past years and years

- Urban ? sorry but it’s just a complete wait and see as I’m not over optimistic about that.
We’ve already been there and done that, been down that familiar road, with supposedly chancing other low bargain run stuff guys such as average joes such as Antwann Woods, Chris Covington, Richard Ash, Terrell McClain, etc ..and certainly didn’t help matters ith the useless Crawford getting pin-balled around all year, that only added to the interior mess.

Urban is just a placeholder, stop-gap solution. Let's hope they finally address the position with a legitimate, talented option. Same goes for Free Safety.

 

[Cowboyny]

the ghost of Marinelli has gone to Sin City Las Vegas. yet do we still play low regards to the 1 tech role ?

We are about to find out in a few days.

 

[AsthmaField]

The question is how do we fix the defense in general because my answer is they have to play as a team - "Do your job". The problem with Dallas last year was not just weak DTs who could not hold their ground or get penetration. It was LBs late to fill, or out of position. It was Xavier Woods missing tackles in the hole. It was Demarcus Lawrence falling for the fake and crashing inside while the ball was going outside. It was Jaylon Smith too slow to get tot he edge before the RB.

Yes, a stud DT to plug the middle of the line would be great, but only if everyone else does what they are supposed to do. Since the Cowboys chose to buy the 12 pack of underwear at K-Mart again this year, we have to hope Gallimore continues to improve. I don't know if Hill will ever be that kind of player we want or need at DT.

btw, it is not just the running game. They need to get pressure up the middle to move opposing QBs out of the pocket. I think Gregory and Lawrence can generate outside pressure but who will collapse the pocket?

This is pretty much how I see it. The scheme and effort were the biggest issue last year. Yes, the players needed to be better in many spots (injuries really hurt there too)... but with the way they played defense, better players just wouldn’t have really mattered.

Quinn will have them playing as a unit and they weeded out the guys who were either bad players or bad for morale. They will be a lot better on that side of the ball. I have little doubt about that. However they are going to need some players too. They’ll be able to fill some holes in this draft but I have a hunch they still may add a player or two through free agency, depending on how the draft falls.

Bottom line is, they’re going to be better. Will they be good enough is my question.

 

[Dalmations202]

How do you fix the DT position?
By drafting large men who are extremely quick and strong, and know how to anchor. Take them often.

IMO, Dallas needs at least one 3T and at least one 1T but two 1T would be better because AWoods is on his last contract before becoming a FA.

My favorites are Barmore or Nixon for the 3T. To pair with Gallimore.
My 1T favorites are McNeil and Bobby Brown both. To use with AWoods and rotate to the 3T when needed.

I am sure there are several others that the Cowboys like much better like Togai, or Wilson, or Shelvin, etc , because every time I review players and really like them, other teams take them instead of Dallas and Dallas ends up looking for more guys the next year.

 

[ESisback]

I'm really focused on McNeil, Shelvin, Togai, Wilson, B. Brown, & Tuipulotu. One of those 6 should be available in the 3-4 round range.

They probably figure that Gallimore and Hill will step it up. Add a healthy McCoy, draft McNeil or Shelvin, throw in Urban and Woods, and they could probably come up with a much better rotation than last year.

 

[waving monkey]

Last year the team was god awful against the run. Poe was a major fa bust, both Hill/Gallimore were forced to see starting reps before they were ready as McCoy couldn't even make it out of camp. Crawford appeared done, now he is retired. All this said, the worst probably is that the new staff forced a new scheme in which they didn't have the personnel for.

I think going back to a similar scheme as Marinelli's, will do wonders for many of the players. However, the talent within the interior has to get better. Signing Urban is a start as he is considered a very good two down player.

How do we fix the DL position?

-#1 priority for me is to fix the run defense, without that, you can forget about rushing the passer. Team has reportedly looked at Marvin Wilson, Tommy Togiai and Milton Williams. Not your traditional NT's, but players who are strong against the run. I would even do the Mike Zimmer here and start Urban and one of these three in the base defense to stop the run.

-Need interior pass rushers. Run players will come off in the nickel. We need interior rushers to push the pocket and force the action to the Edges. Yes, Barmore would be an ideal fit, but I'm more looking at Edge players who are base run defensive ends, that can kick inside against the pass: Basham, Turner, Weaver, Sample, Milton Williams*

I think the DT start in the 2nd round. Alim McNeal,Togiai and even Marvin Wilson [if he can find his lost motor]. As you already stated Hill and Gallimore with a year under their belt. I dont see the rushing yards allowed this year. I've been wrong plenty

 

[beware_d-ware]

We still need a 1T in the worst way. Gallimore stuffed the run well in the back half of the season, and I trust him enough to hand him a starting job in '21. But 1T is just a disaster. It's pool of street-FA JAGs we have been rolling out at the position for 10 years, and Terrell McClain's the only one I can remember working.

 

[morasp]

My bet is they'll probably go after one of the DTs with a backup grade (Bobby Brown, Milton Williams, Marvin Wilson or Togiai) in the draft and bring McCoy back on an incentive laced contract after the date that it won't affect our comp picks. They'll hope that Gallimore and or Hill can improve and generate some kind of interior pass rush. If they drafted Barmore or Onwuzurike it would be a pleasant surprise.

 

[Jfconrow]

5th and 6th round, draft the largest dudes available, 320lb+ if you can. Finally get a true NT and a rush DT.

 

[quickccc]

Urban is just a placeholder, stop-gap solution. Let's hope they finally address the position with a legitimate, talented option. Same goes for Free Safety.

(sigh) …. sounds like the same ole song and dance tune we have been playing for years upon years ….

BTW, I questioning why this discussion thread has been moved to Draft Zone forum, ..when Free agency and Trades can also suffice immediate fixtures to the DT role and the Defense ?