How do we fix the DT position?

[Cowboyny]

(sigh) …. sounds like the same ole song and dance tune we have been playing for years upon years ….

BTW, I questioning why this discussion thread has been moved to Draft Zone forum, ..when Free agency and Trades can also suffice immediate fixtures to the DT role and the Defense ?

I posted it in the draft forum as a discussion how to fix via the draft process.

Yes, it's very frustrating about those positions, but it's now up to Quinn to let the front office know he needs premium players at those positions.

Quinn's scheme puts more importance on the Single High Free Safety then it does at the outside corner. Let's see if they use a top 100 pick on the position, would like to address the need even earlier, but probably wishful thinking.

As for defensive tackle, I still have my doubts they will use a high pick on a two down run player. The players they have been linked to at the position are more tweeners who can play either DT position. I think there has to be some upside as a rusher to use a high pick on the position. Since we will be in the nickel the majority of the time, we will be playing two 3T's inside, if this prospect can stay on the field, it's a big plus.

There are several inside/outside players in this class, better options like what we had with Crawford. Players who can be base Defensive End's and kick inside on the nickel. Milton Williams, Payton Turner are two names that the Cowboys have shown major interest with. Turner is far more polished and even can play the Leo/stand-up role.

 

[quickccc]

I posted it in the draft forum as a discussion how to fix via the draft process.

Yes, it's very frustrating about those positions, but it's now up to Quinn to let the front office know he needs premium players at those positions.

Quinn's scheme puts more importance on the Single High Free Safety then it does at the outside corner. Let's see if they use a top 100 pick on the position, would like to address the need even earlier, but probably wishful thinking.

As for defensive tackle, I still have my doubts they will use a high pick on a two down run player. The players they have been linked to at the position are more tweeners who can play either DT position. I think there has to be some upside as a rusher to use a high pick on the position. Since we will be in the nickel the majority of the time, we will be playing two 3T's inside, if this prospect can stay on the field, it's a big plus.

There are several inside/outside players in this class, better options like what we had with Crawford. Players who can be base Defensive End's and kick inside on the nickel. Milton Williams, Payton Turner are two names that the Cowboys have shown major interest with. Turner is far more polished and even can play the Leo/stand-up role.

Imo, no position in the secondary is gonna demand more attention and responsibility than the outside CB.
It's a reason why CB's usually gonna demand and get more money upon signing and re-signing contracts than safeties.
They personally handling the opposition's WRs which is the quickest way to the scoring end zone.

- The only way that would be different is if there were already a stellar safety in place and constantly making the difference ala Earl Thomas.

- Another though is we still do not have a leader ,..a general in that secondary (much less the entire defense) ..this also is hurting this defense.

- Thanks for explaining DTs thread in draft zone forum, and apologies to the Mods, ..

- I saw where Milton Williams as a 284 lb 3 tech with great hand movement but average get off quickness, I don't see how he fits high priority even mid round, unless McClay ad his value board
feels he is just too damn good to pass up.

 

[Doomsday]

Jerry seems to have forgotten an important lesson from Bill Parcells, you build a defense from the inside out.

You can get all the corners you want and your defense will still suck if opposing teams are in third short the entire game.

 

[Cowboyny]

Imo, no position in the secondary is gonna demand more attention and responsibility than the outside CB.
It's a reason why CB's usually gonna demand and get more money upon signing and re-signing contracts than safeties.
They personally handling the opposition's WRs which is the quickest way to the scoring end zone.

- The only way that would be different is if there were already a stellar safety in place and constantly making the difference ala Earl Thomas.

- Another though is we still do not have a leader ,..a general in that secondary (much less the entire defense) ..this also is hurting this defense.

- Thanks for explaining DTs thread in draft zone forum, and apologies to the Mods, ..

- I saw where Milton Williams as a 284 lb 3 tech with great hand movement but average get off quickness, I don't see how he fits high priority even mid round, unless McClay ad his value board
feels he is just too damn good to pass up.

-It's another deep CB class, not a wide gap between top tier corners, but better get one by the 2nd rd.
-A legitimate single high free safety is rare and very valuable. If we are going to trade up, this is the position to do so 2-3 players, then huge drop-off.
-Milton Williams is another raw prospect, that tested out extremely well, watched him and was very unimpressed. I would avoid.

 

[kskboys]

Tonga in the 2nd, Stills in the 3rd. Problem solved.

 

[BourbonBalz]

5th and 6th round, draft the largest dudes available, 320lb+ if you can. Finally get a true NT and a rush DT.

Quinton Bohanna.

 

[ESisback]

Tonga in the 2nd, Stills in the 3rd. Problem solved.

How about Tonga in the second and a LB or S in the third? Lindy’s projects Stills as a 4th or 5th rounder.

 

[gimmesix]

Trade down and draft Barmore, then draft Alim McNeill with the second-round pick we receive in the trade. Boom! The DT position is fixed.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Based on who they have shown interest in, they aren't looking at traditional 3-4 NT types. More like quicker, undersized guys who can play either spot.

I think Togiai is a traditional 1T in the NFL, a 3 down guy that will be stout in the run game and can get uphill in pass defense. I dont think he has the gap versatility of Tuefle, but I think he is a quality all around 1T. One thing I worry about with him is length. Thats a short coming with Gallimore too. Having two DT's with a limited tackle radius could be problematic

 

[darthseinfeld]

Last year the team was god awful against the run. Poe was a major fa bust, both Hill/Gallimore were forced to see starting reps before they were ready as McCoy couldn't even make it out of camp. Crawford appeared done, now he is retired. All this said, the worst probably is that the new staff forced a new scheme in which they didn't have the personnel for.

I think going back to a similar scheme as Marinelli's, will do wonders for many of the players. However, the talent within the interior has to get better. Signing Urban is a start as he is considered a very good two down player.

How do we fix the DL position?

-#1 priority for me is to fix the run defense, without that, you can forget about rushing the passer. Team has reportedly looked at Marvin Wilson, Tommy Togiai and Milton Williams. Not your traditional NT's, but players who are strong against the run. I would even do the Mike Zimmer here and start Urban and one of these three in the base defense to stop the run.

-Need interior pass rushers. Run players will come off in the nickel. We need interior rushers to push the pocket and force the action to the Edges. Yes, Barmore would be an ideal fit, but I'm more looking at Edge players who are base run defensive ends, that can kick inside against the pass: Basham, Turner, Weaver, Sample, Milton Williams*

Wilson is an intriguing gamble. Probably the most skilled DT in the draft, and probably the best fit for us. You just really hope that 2020 was a down year for him

 

[Cowboyny]

Wilson is an intriguing gamble. Probably the most skilled DT in the draft, and probably the best fit for us. You just really hope that 2020 was a down year for him

Question is, how high do you take him? Many have him as a 5th rd prospect?

 

[Cowboyny]

I think Togiai is a traditional 1T in the NFL, a 3 down guy that will be stout in the run game and can get uphill in pass defense. I dont think he has the gap versatility of Tuefle, but I think he is a quality all around 1T. One thing I worry about with him is length. Thats a short coming with Gallimore too. Having two DT's with a limited tackle radius could be problematic

Togiai reminds me of Stephen Paea. Strong as a bull, will be able to push the pocket and become a strong run defender. I have him right behind McNeil as the best 1T in the class.

As for his lack of length, it will depend on how Quinn uses him. If he plays more of a penetrating role, he should be fine, but if he asks him to two gap and occupy multiple blockers, this could be an issue. Think we are going to see the latter based on who they are looking at.

 

[kskboys]

How about Tonga in the second and a LB or S in the third? Lindy’s projects Stills as a 4th or 5th rounder.

Stills has a monster ceiling. Complete draft steal. Looks like the 2nd coming of Aaron Donald/Jurrell Casey. He will not be there in the 4th.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Question is, how high do you take him? Many have him as a 5th rd prospect?

Id take him in the third due to the upside. Its a gamble, but if it works out he is a huge score. Wilson is a guy that teams will really to have info we usually arent privy to during the pre draft process. He is a guy that could go in the second, or the fifth

 

[SixFiveCowboy]

Jerry seems to have forgotten an important lesson from Bill Parcells, you build a defense from the inside out.

You can get all the corners you want and your defense will still suck if opposing teams are in third short the entire game.

I honestly believe this to be true because truly dominating defenses are strong through the middle from DT's to MLB and that formula continues to work. I looked at Tampa's D they had retreads at DE's with quick get offs but they had beef inside that was hard for teams to move out them holes and their young MLB is an absolute problem. I think inside/out is the way to go.

 

[Cowboyny]

Id take him in the third due to the upside. Its a gamble, but if it works out he is a huge score. Wilson is a guy that teams will really to have info we usually arent privy to during the pre draft process. He is a guy that could go in the second, or the fifth

There is a lot of love/hate with him. I agree, worth the gamble at some point. 99 would make sense.

 

[darthseinfeld]

There is a lot of love/hate with him. I agree, worth the gamble at some point. 99 would make sense.

To me he is one of those guys, if he starts falling just let him keep falling. That screams to me 2020 wasnt an aberration, and there are serious red flags.

 

[ESisback]

Stills has a monster ceiling. Complete draft steal. Looks like the 2nd coming of Aaron Donald/Jurrell Casey. He will not be there in the 4th.

Wonder why we haven’t heard more about him. Sounds like a plan.

 

[kskboys]

Wonder why we haven’t heard more about him. Sounds like a plan.

I personally can't figure it out. Same reason Casey slid to the 3rd, Mike Daniels went in the 4th, Gino Atkins went in the 4th, Reader went in the 5th, Malik Jackson went in the 5th, Grady Jarrett 5th, Hargrave 3rd

Nearest I can tell is that NFL personnel simply favor taller players. Very strange stuff.

 

[gimmesix]

Wonder why we haven’t heard more about him. Sounds like a plan.

Probably because he's 6-1 and a shade less than 280.