How do you rank Manning now?

[CF74]

According to the site, here is their order:

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Manning
4. Marino
5. Favre
6. Brady
7. Young
8. Unitas
9. Bradshaw
10 Aikman
11. Starr
12. Staubach


I'll say they got the 1st two right but then it gets squirley from there...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Why? He's played behind a top 10 defense his entire career, Manning hasn't. Plays in what was and still is the weakest division in the AFC, giving them homefield advantage more often then not. And hasn't won anything without Crennel and Weis. So tell me why would you disagree....

He's never played with anywhere near the talent, offensively, that Manning has. He's never had the bennifit of playing with the same guys, even, the way Manning has in Indy. To say that he's a system QB is a bit short sighted IMO. Every QB is a System QB. Each has strengths and weakness'. The job of any coaching staff is to put players in situations that allow there strengths to win out while limiting the weakness'. Show me one QB who was not a System QB and you'll show me the first one in the history of the league.

I don't agree with you. I'm certain I'm far from alone on that.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

According to the site, here is their order:

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Manning
4. Marino
5. Favre
6. Brady
7. Young
8. Unitas
9. Bradshaw
10 Aikman
11. Starr
12. Staubach


I'm not a huge fan of the order, but to see that two of our QB's are thought to be among the greatest in the history of the Sport shows just how fortunate this franchise has been.

 

[Doomsday]

According to the site, here is their order:

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Manning
4. Marino
5. Favre
6. Brady
7. Young
8. Unitas
9. Bradshaw
10 Aikman
11. Starr
12. Staubach


I'll say they got the 1st two right but then it gets squirley from there...

That is a pretty good list I would put Elway at #1 but lets not start that debate again and I would move Young down to 12 but thats just me.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

He's never played with anywhere near the talent, offensively, that Manning has. He's never had the bennifit of playing with the same guys, even, the way Manning has in Indy. To say that he's a system QB is a bit short sighted IMO. Every QB is a System QB. Each has strengths and weakness'. The job of any coaching staff is to put players in situations that allow there strengths to win out while limiting the weakness'. Show me one QB who was not a System QB and you'll show me the first one in the history of the league.

I don't agree with you. I'm certain I'm far from alone on that.

And Manning has never had the defensive talent that Brady has. He has had to try to singlehandedly outscore their opponent. What I meant by a product of the system, is that he was a "bus driver" during his first SB and did nothing special in that game.... Yet he was the MVP?(I believe). He has had the luxury of a solid game plan, offensively and defensively as well as good defenses, and a weak division, which allows for home field adv. Which is huge where they play. That is the "system" I was referring to. Your point of coaches putting players in the right postition is spot on. If only we had people in place in big "D" that could do that.

 

[Rampage]

i wouldn't rank peyton that high. cause in the playoffs he sucks. he is the best regular season qb ever. but i would put him at #10 all time.

 

[CATCH17]

Why? He's played behind a top 10 defense his entire career, Manning hasn't. Plays in what was and still is the weakest division in the AFC, giving them homefield advantage more often then not. And hasn't won anything without Crennel and Weis. So tell me why would you disagree....

Then Manning is a system QB as well.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And Manning has never had the defensive talent that Brady has. He has had to try to singlehandedly outscore their opponent. What I meant by a product of the system, is that he was a "bus driver" during his first SB and did nothing special in that game.... Yet he was the MVP?(I believe). He has had the luxury of a solid game plan, offensively and defensively as well as good defenses, and a weak division, which allows for home field adv. Which is huge where they play. That is the "system" I was referring to. Your point of coaches putting players in the right postition is spot on. If only we had people in place in big "D" that could do that.

He did nothing special in the first SB against the Rams? How on earth can you say this? Did you not watch that game? If not for Brady, the Rams win that game.

As far as the game plans go, all these coaches put solid game plans together. There is not a coaching staff in the NFL that doesn't do this week in and week out. It is simply a matter of how well the players execute the game plan. All of them understand Xs and Os. All can break down film on the opposition. I don't really buy into that so much.

I do agree, to a certain extent, that Manning has had to do it with offense in the past. That is not without it's truths but, if you get a defensive stop, as a QB, you still have to go down and score points. If your going to say that it's because of the defense, then you have to turn that around and also say that the QB has to be able to drive the team down when it matters in order to take advantage of the defensive stops. Brady has done that throughout his career. Manning has also had opportunities to do this and has come up short on occasion. He is a great, great player but you can not say on the one hand that Manning is great because he is able to put up such numbers in the regular season but Brady is not because he has a great defense around him. In the playoffs and Super Bowl, you playing against the best defenses in the league. The fact that Brady can produce against those defenses is a testimate to his greatness and has nothing to do with the fact that his defense is good, per say. Would he have gotten the chance to be great without his defense? No. But, had he not produced when he had his opportunities, the Pats would not have won championships.

Was Joe Montana a great QB? He played on teams with great defenses and in a very weak division his entire career in SF.

 

[FLcowboy]

A good measure would be how well the quarterback did when his team wasn't dominate.

In 1971, Staubach's first year as starter, he took a 10-4 team to 11-3, and a Super bowl victory. His next two season's were 10-4, but suffering losses in the NFC Championship games. In 1974, his record was 8-6, but he rebounded in 1975 to 10-4, while losing the Super Bowl to Pittsburgh.

In 1976, he was 11-3, but lost the first playoff game. In 1977, he was 12-2, and took a Super Bowl win over Denver. In 1978, Roger was 12-4, losing again to Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl. in 1979, we was 11-5, and lost the first playoff game. In 1980, he was 12-4, losing to the Eagles in the NFC championship game. In 1981, he gave up the reins, while the team went 12-4.

While Staubach had a great run, he was never selected to the All-Pro team. It's hard to understand why.

Staubach had a record as a starter that is equaled by none. It's got to be an anti Cowboys bias to not recognize his as a top five quarterback ever.

 

[CATCH17]

He did nothing special in the first SB against the Rams? How on earth can you say this? Did you not watch that game? If not for Brady, the Rams win that game.

As far as the game plans go, all these coaches put solid game plans together. There is not a coaching staff in the NFL that doesn't do this week in and week out. It is simply a matter of how well the players execute the game plan. All of them understand Xs and Os. All can break down film on the opposition. I don't really buy into that so much.

I do agree, to a certain extent, that Manning has had to do it with offense in the past. That is not without it's truths but, if you get a defensive stop, as a QB, you still have to go down and score points. If your going to say that it's because of the defense, then you have to turn that around and also say that the QB has to be able to drive the team down when it matters in order to take advantage of the defensive stops. Brady has done that throughout his career. Manning has also had opportunities to do this and has come up short on occasion. He is a great, great player but you can not say on the one hand that Manning is great because he is able to put up such numbers in the regular season but Brady is not because he has a great defense around him. In the playoffs and Super Bowl, you playing against the best defenses in the league. The fact that Brady can produce against those defenses is a testimate to his greatness and has nothing to do with the fact that his defense is good, per say. Would he have gotten the chance to be great without his defense? No. But, had he not produced when he had his opportunities, the Pats would not have won championships.

Was Joe Montana a great QB? He played on teams with great defenses and in a very weak division his entire career in SF.

And its not like Manning wasnt a big reason for the Colts post season losses in the past.

Hes had games where he just throws multiple interceptions.

 

[StevenOtero]

i would have peyton at 5 right now - brady #1 for me though followed by either montana or aikmen

Brady is not # 1.. period

 

[YosemiteSam]

This is always a debate of who was the best.

Lets see what team mates they had.

Payton Manning: Harrison, Wayne, Clark, E. James
Troy Aikman: Irving, Johnny Paycheck, Emmitt Smith
Joe Montana: Rice, Taylor, D. Clark, B. Jones, Roger Craig
Dan Marino: Mark Clayton, Super Duper <nothing else special> *DING DING DING*
John Elway: Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, T. Davis, S Sharpe
Steve Young: Rice, Taylor, R. Watters, B. Jones
Johnny Unitas: Raymand Berry, Jimmy Orr, John Mackey (no great RBs)
Brett Farve: Antonio Freeman, Kieth Jackson, Mark Chmura, Sterling Sharpe, Ahman Green, Donald Driver

There are several others, but I think Marino did the most (by far!!!) with less. He had two great receivers, and never had a real running back or tight end to spread the defense away from his receivers yet he still to this day is the most prolific QB in history. If he ever had a real running game in the mid-eighties, he would have won a Superbowl.

 

[the big 88]

ESPN has a poll of the greatest QBs ever. They narrowed it down to 12 QBs. Aikman and Staubach are included in the top 12. Before the season started Manning was ranked number 12, but according to the new ranking he is in the top five.

That's all fine and good, what bothered me was that in the latest rankings Staubach was ranked 12th and Aikman was like 10th or 9th.

Personally, I always hate it when people rank Young above Aikman. Young played in the a West Coast system that can make anyone look great (if you have doubts, see Garcia in SF and in PHI this year). I think Aikman should at least be in the top 6 or 7.

I think manning should definitely be in the top 5, it would have been a shame for his career to go down like marino's becuase there's always going to be that "but" for marino that he never won the big game. One could also say that Aikman should be in the top 5 as well. If he was I wouldn't argue, he did win 3 superbowls, one sb mvp. He also had the best playoff winning percentage among qb's until brady showed up. Young should not be ranked higher than aikman...

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I think he is one of the best QBs I have seen.

He didnt have a spectacular Super Bowl, but he did what he had to do.

I think alot of guys here should really think about what Tony Dungy had to say about 2 weeks ago when he was asked this question no doubt for the trillionth time.

"I think you guys (the media) are being very foolish to start judging the guy based on half his career".

It would be hard for me to imagine that he doesn't hold just about every QB Passing Record after 6-7 Seasons.

- Mike G.

 

[CATCH17]

I think he is one of the best QBs I have seen.

He didnt have a spectacular Super Bowl, but he did what he had to do.

I think alot of guys here should really think about what Tony Dungy had to say about 2 weeks ago when he was asked this question no doubt for the trillionth time.

"I think you guys (the media) are being very foolish to start judging the guy based on half his career".

It would be hard for me to imagine that he doesn't hold just about every QB Passing Record after 6-7 Seasons.

- Mike G.

He can hold every record he wants that still doesnt make him the best Quarterback of all time or even in todays game.

I'll still take a Joe Montana any day over Peyton Manning.

I dont care if Kobe Bryant broke every one of Michael Jordans records... Ill still take Jordan.


Peyton Manning is a stat machine but when the games get bigger he gets worse. Ill still take Tom Brady any day over Manning.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

He did nothing special in the first SB against the Rams? How on earth can you say this? Did you not watch that game? If not for Brady, the Rams win that game.

As far as the game plans go, all these coaches put solid game plans together. There is not a coaching staff in the NFL that doesn't do this week in and week out. It is simply a matter of how well the players execute the game plan. All of them understand Xs and Os. All can break down film on the opposition. I don't really buy into that so much.

I do agree, to a certain extent, that Manning has had to do it with offense in the past. That is not without it's truths but, if you get a defensive stop, as a QB, you still have to go down and score points. If your going to say that it's because of the defense, then you have to turn that around and also say that the QB has to be able to drive the team down when it matters in order to take advantage of the defensive stops. Brady has done that throughout his career. Manning has also had opportunities to do this and has come up short on occasion. He is a great, great player but you can not say on the one hand that Manning is great because he is able to put up such numbers in the regular season but Brady is not because he has a great defense around him. In the playoffs and Super Bowl, you playing against the best defenses in the league. The fact that Brady can produce against those defenses is a testimate to his greatness and has nothing to do with the fact that his defense is good, per say. Would he have gotten the chance to be great without his defense? No. But, had he not produced when he had his opportunities, the Pats would not have won championships.

Was Joe Montana a great QB? He played on teams with great defenses and in a very weak division his entire career in SF.

He went for 145 and 1TD in that game. His defense forced 3 turnovers from the Rams, one was a pick six. He made 2 passes late, and all of a sudden "he just knows how to win?" The Rams were playing a prevent defense, Grossman can advance the ball against that.... Regardless, my personal feeling is that Manning, as of right now, will go down as the greatest QB ever, and Brady is just a little overhyped, and overpraised.

 

[CF74]

Was Joe Montana a great QB? He played on teams with great defenses and in a very weak division his entire career in SF.

The Cowboys of the 80's were no slouches.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

He can hold every record he wants that still doesnt make him the best Quarterback of all time or even in todays game.

I'll still take a Joe Montana any day over Peyton Manning.

I dont care if Kobe Bryant broke every one of Michael Jordans records... Ill still take Jordan.


Peyton Manning is a stat machine but when the games get bigger he gets worse. Ill still take Tom Brady any day over Manning.

I guess you missed the portion where I said he is ONE of the best.

I would take Brady over Manning too, but if I was forced to have Peyton Manning as my QB, I wouldn't be too bummed about it .

- Mike G.

 

[CATCH17]

The Cowboys of the 80's were no slouches.

The Key word in his post was Division and not Conference.

 

[CF74]

A good measure would be how well the quarterback did when his team wasn't dominate.

In 1971, Staubach's first year as starter, he took a 10-4 team to 11-3, and a Super bowl victory. His next two season's were 10-4, but suffering losses in the NFC Championship games. In 1974, his record was 8-6, but he rebounded in 1975 to 10-4, while losing the Super Bowl to Pittsburgh.

In 1976, he was 11-3, but lost the first playoff game. In 1977, he was 12-2, and took a Super Bowl win over Denver. In 1978, Roger was 12-4, losing again to Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl. in 1979, we was 11-5, and lost the first playoff game. In 1980, he was 12-4, losing to the Eagles in the NFC championship game. In 1981, he gave up the reins, while the team went 12-4.

While Staubach had a great run, he was never selected to the All-Pro team. It's hard to understand why.

Staubach had a record as a starter that is equaled by none. It's got to be an anti Cowboys bias to not recognize his as a top five quarterback ever.

Absolutley:starspin