How early would you draft Aaron Lynch?

[xwalker]

Thank you so much for using in 10-yard time opposed to his 40. I'm not suprised by it, though; you can see his explosion on tape. I am, however, curious about his overall punch. How does he compare in the lift? I ask you because the sites I checked left that blank. Did he skip it?

Bench reps at the Combine:
Aaron Lynch: 18
Anthony Barr: 15
Clowney: 21

 

[jday]

It's very rare to get an immediate contributor in the 5th round. Teams normally expect an immediate starter in the 1st, a possible immediate starter in the 2nd and a significant contributor in the 3rd. After that, it's the expectations are more for the future or for special teams.

The Cowboys have DEs that should be fine in the base defense (Selvie, Mincey and Crawford). They need a guy that can be a dynamic Nickel pass rusher. In Marinelli's scheme the Nickel pass rushing DE has minimal to learn other than just get to the QB. Being that it's the Nickel, there is not much run defense required. Even in the base defense, Marinelli's didn't require Ware to set the edge against the run. Ware had significantly more run contain responsibility in RR's defense than he had in the Marinelli/Kiffin defense.

Obviously, all pick are dependent on who else is available. If a guy you have rated as a 2nd/3rd rounder is available in the 5th, then you have to take him regardless of the position, IMO.

I can't really argue with anything you said. My issue is, the Cowboys really need to find starter potential throughout the draft, if possible. And considering how deep many have said this draft to be, I guess I'm really holding out hope that the Cowboys can do just that. I said earlier Lynch looks like he could be a good Nickel rusher, but I'm not sure he would be immediately...and the Cowboys really need someone in that role who can do it immediately. Something else I noticed in the recent tape you led me to, he has good explosion, but he seemed to have trouble when he had to change direction to get to the QB, coming to a complete stop at times and starting again. Particularly against option QB's, he'll get destroyed if that continues.

Do you know anything about his off-the-field issues? Would he still be considered an RKG by Garrett, with said issues?

 

[jday]

Bench reps at the Combine:
Aaron Lynch: 18
Anthony Barr: 15
Clowney: 21

Not bad. The more we talk about this guy, admittedly, the more intridgued I become. Any indication of interest from the Cowboys office? Do we know if any of the Cowboys scouts have looked at him?

 

[xwalker]

I can't really argue with anything you said. My issue is, the Cowboys really need to find starter potential throughout the draft, if possible. And considering how deep many have said this draft to be, I guess I'm really holding out hope that the Cowboys can do just that. I said earlier Lynch looks like he could be a good Nickel rusher, but I'm not sure he would be immediately...and the Cowboys really need someone in that role who can do it immediately. Something else I noticed in the recent tape you led me to, he has good explosion, but he seemed to have trouble when he had to change direction to get to the QB, coming to a complete stop at times and starting again. Particularly against option QB's, he'll get destroyed if that continues.

Do you know anything about his off-the-field issues? Would he still be considered an RKG by Garrett, with said issues?

As fans/draftniks, the area where we get the least information as compared to what the NFL teams know is the character/mental makeup issues. For any player with any type of character issue, there will be countless claims on the internet about how he is a bad guy, but in reality we rarely know the full story.

In the 5th round you are going to have to draft a player that has some type of shortcoming. It could be character/mental-makeup, it could be injury, it could be level of competition, it could be below average measurables, etc..

If the Cowboy are planning to get an immediate contributor at DE, they're going to have to draft one in the top 3 rounds. Even then, some of those guys are going to take time to reach their peak. The super quick guys like Barr (1st) or Attaochu (2nd) are going to need time to get stronger. They are likely to be primarily Nickel pass rushing specialists as rookies. You can take guys that are more developed like Crichton, but he's really more of a Strong Side guy that does have the elite athleticism to be a top Weak Side pass rusher. The Cowboys already have guys that are good SDEs. They need that elite WDE type guy even if he is only a Nickel pass rushing specialist as a rookie.

The bottom line is that if a team has major issues, they can't really plan to resolve them immediately with rookies. They really need to be drafting with the expectation that a rookie, not matter how highly drafted, is not going to be everything you want him to be until his 2nd year.

The Cowboys should really be targeting 2015 as their year to be Super Bowl contenders. They just have to many issues to overcome in 2014.

Unlike past years, they will be in good shape with the salary cap after 2014 and can get some free agents. Also, with a very young roster they are unlikely to being losing players due to age or to free agency.

 

[xwalker]

Not bad. The more we talk about this guy, admittedly, the more intridgued I become. Any indication of interest from the Cowboys office? Do we know if any of the Cowboys scouts have looked at him?

You're only going to hear of about 30 to 40 players linked to the Cowboys and their draft board had 120 players last year and 240 in previous years.

Reportedly, McClay is going to be a little more open to character risk players than they have been since Garrett has been the HC with his RKG mantra.

 

[jday]

The Cowboys should really be targeting 2015 as their year to be Super Bowl contenders. They just have to many issues to overcome in 2014.

That has been my mantra all offseason. I really don't see how they can fix all the issues they have. But here's hoping anyway

Given your further explanation, out of all the possible low round DE's, he probably will be the best fit available at the time. My guess is though they'll be looking to address the DL early and will hope to find competition for the offense in the latter rounds. I'm not even going to say my guess is as good as anybody's because 1. I really don't follow college football at all for the exception of the occassional youtube analysis in the days leading up into the draft and 2. the Cowboys are always an enigma when it comes to predicting their moves pre-draft.

 

[xwalker]

That has been my mantra all offseason. I really don't see how they can fix all the issues they have. But here's hoping anyway

Given your further explanation, out of all the possible low round DE's, he probably will be the best fit available at the time. My guess is though they'll be looking to address the DL early and will hope to find competition for the offense in the latter rounds. I'm not even going to say my guess is as good as anybody's because 1. I really don't follow college football at all for the exception of the occassional youtube analysis in the days leading up into the draft and 2. the Cowboys are always an enigma when it comes to predicting their moves pre-draft.

I just want them to get as much talent as possible without trying to force the issue at any one position.

They way things tend to work is that the real weakness during the season often ends up being at position that you didn't expect. They could draft a DE early and end up with some existing DE on the roster having a career year while all 3 top CBs get injured. Last year it seemed like they had better players on DL than they had at OG or RT, yet the OL ended up being one of the top units on the team.

The Cowboys have a few guys that I'm interested to see in training camp.
DE Martez Wilson is a freak athlete with length. He's a guy that can't cover and therefore was cut by NO as a 3-4 OLB and by the Raiders as a 4-3 LB. Physically, he is a perfect fit a WDE in Marinelli's scheme. He played some last season, but from what I gather is one of those slower learner types that really needed a training camp in the scheme.

Rayford is also interesting. He has great length at 6-7 with long arms. He was shelved last season primarily due to an injury. He had a great pre-season with the Colts as a pass rusher in their 3-4 scheme but he could function in coverage.

They have a guy named Tristan Okpalaugo that is interesting. He's about 6-5, 260. He has freakishly long (36+) arms and big hands. He looked decent in the college game footage that I've seen. He seems like a more athletic version of Selvie.

Quinton Spears (6-5, 230) had 24 sacks in college. He is undersized, but looked super fast/athletic in the game footage that I saw.

If 1 or these 4 could step up and become a quality pass WDE, even if it's only as a Nickel pass rusher, it would be a huge boost to the defense.

 

[jday]

I just want them to get as much talent as possible without trying to force the issue at any one position.

They way things tend to work is that the real weakness during the season often ends up being at position that you didn't expect. They could draft a DE early and end up with some existing DE on the roster having a career year while all 3 top CBs get injured. Last year it seemed like they had better players on DL than they had at OG or RT, yet the OL ended up being one of the top units on the team.

The Cowboys have a few guys that I'm interested to see in training camp.
DE Martez Wilson is a freak athlete with length. He's a guy that can't cover and therefore was cut by NO as a 3-4 OLB and by the Raiders as a 4-3 LB. Physically, he is a perfect fit a WDE in Marinelli's scheme. He played some last season, but from what I gather is one of those slower learner types that really needed a training camp in the scheme.

Rayford is also interesting. He has great length at 6-7 with long arms. He was shelved last season primarily due to an injury. He had a great pre-season with the Colts as a pass rusher in their 3-4 scheme but he could function in coverage.

They have a guy named Tristan Okpalaugo that is interesting. He's about 6-5, 260. He has freakishly long (36+) arms and big hands. He looked decent in the college game footage that I've seen. He seems like a more athletic version of Selvie.

Quinton Spears (6-5, 230) had 24 sacks in college. He is undersized, but looked super fast/athletic in the game footage that I saw.

If 1 or these 4 could step up and become a quality pass WDE, even if it's only as a Nickel pass rusher, it would be a huge boost to the defense.

I'm familiar with both Caesar Rayford and Martez Wilson and like you am eager to see if they can emerge as significant contributors. I am also familiar with the phenomenon of weakness' springing up in areas previously thought to be a strength and visa versa. With the Cowboys defense, however, every position group has a perceived weakness, so maybe we will get lucky this year and that phenomenon will actually work in our favor.

DC.com has Quinton Spears listed as a LB; but like you pointed out, he does have speed. Okpalaugo looked okay in the footage I saw, but he didn't seem to have a firm grasp of how to get separation off of the OT once he got locked up. If he had trouble in college you can expect he'll have a hard time in the pros.

I'm trying really hard not to get my hopes up about any of these guys, though, Martez Wilson, in my mind, has the best chance to flourish here.

 

[xwalker]

I'm familiar with both Caesar Rayford and Martez Wilson and like you am eager to see if they can emerge as significant contributors. I am also familiar with the phenomenon of weakness' springing up in areas previously thought to be a strength and visa versa. With the Cowboys defense, however, every position group has a perceived weakness, so maybe we will get lucky this year and that phenomenon will actually work in our favor.

DC.com has Quinton Spears listed as a LB; but like you pointed out, he does have speed. Okpalaugo looked okay in the footage I saw, but he didn't seem to have a firm grasp of how to get separation off of the OT once he got locked up. If he had trouble in college you can expect he'll have a hard time in the pros.

I'm trying really hard not to get my hopes up about any of these guys, though, Martez Wilson, in my mind, has the best chance to flourish here.

I'm just looking for 1 of 4 to do something and I'll be happy if that is just as a Nickel pass rusher.

The Cowboys website is often not up to date or completely accurate. I think they have Martez Wilson listed at LB and Wilber listed at DE but that is opposite of the positions that they played in 2013. Wilber did start out at DE but moved to LB. They usually seem to have the roster accurate for game 1 of the season and then it's iffy until game 1 the following year.

Marinelli is considered a master of teaching technique to DLinemen. Some of those small college guys don't get in depth technique coaching. Also, Marinelli's scheme is based on making the DL's job simple. The "thinking" is shifted from the DL to the LBs and secondary in his scheme. I think this was part of the problem with Carter. Not that the DBs and LBs didn't have to think before, but the reads are more complicated, especially for the LBs. In the 3-4, the primary "thinking" position was the OLB (Ware, Spencer), especially the SOLB (Spencer). The reads had to be very precise in terms of rush, cover or play the run.

I agree that it would be great to see things "click" for Martez Wilson. He is a super athlete. He's a better athlete than Anthony Barr with similar length.

 

[Sydla]

Wilson was another uber athlete who made some questionable decisions. Could have gone to any power house football factory but chose Illinois and a cruddy coaching staff where rumors flew he was "enticed" to attend U of I (Mike Locksley was recruiting him) along with a few other elite high school players like Aurrelious Benn.

 

[xwalker]

Wilson was another uber athlete who made some questionable decisions. Could have gone to any power house football factory but chose Illinois and a cruddy coaching staff where rumors flew he was "enticed" to attend U of I (Mike Locksley was recruiting him) along with a few other elite high school players like Aurrelious Benn.

Yes, he's not known to be real smart. He has proven that he could not learn coverage schemes as a LB.

As a DE for Marinelli, he has a chance to use his athletic ability with very little thinking involved.

 

[Sydla]

Definitely worth the risk IMO.

 

[jday]

I'm just looking for 1 of 4 to do something and I'll be happy if that is just as a Nickel pass rusher.

The Cowboys website is often not up to date or completely accurate. I think they have Martez Wilson listed at LB and Wilber listed at DE but that is opposite of the positions that they played in 2013. Wilber did start out at DE but moved to LB. They usually seem to have the roster accurate for game 1 of the season and then it's iffy until game 1 the following year.

Marinelli is considered a master of teaching technique to DLinemen. Some of those small college guys don't get in depth technique coaching. Also, Marinelli's scheme is based on making the DL's job simple. The "thinking" is shifted from the DL to the LBs and secondary in his scheme. I think this was part of the problem with Carter. Not that the DBs and LBs didn't have to think before, but the reads are more complicated, especially for the LBs. In the 3-4, the primary "thinking" position was the OLB (Ware, Spencer), especially the SOLB (Spencer). The reads had to be very precise in terms of rush, cover or play the run.

I agree that it would be great to see things "click" for Martez Wilson. He is a super athlete. He's a better athlete than Anthony Barr with similar length.

There is the hoped for Marinelli effect, but especially with the Cowboys I really try to stay away from wishful thinking. But like you said, if at least 1 of the 4 has the proverbial lights come on, an improved pass rush will go along way in improving every position on the defense.

 

[tm1119]

I just want them to get as much talent as possible without trying to force the issue at any one position.

They way things tend to work is that the real weakness during the season often ends up being at position that you didn't expect. They could draft a DE early and end up with some existing DE on the roster having a career year while all 3 top CBs get injured. Last year it seemed like they had better players on DL than they had at OG or RT, yet the OL ended up being one of the top units on the team.

The Cowboys have a few guys that I'm interested to see in training camp.
DE Martez Wilson is a freak athlete with length. He's a guy that can't cover and therefore was cut by NO as a 3-4 OLB and by the Raiders as a 4-3 LB. Physically, he is a perfect fit a WDE in Marinelli's scheme. He played some last season, but from what I gather is one of those slower learner types that really needed a training camp in the scheme.

Rayford is also interesting. He has great length at 6-7 with long arms. He was shelved last season primarily due to an injury. He had a great pre-season with the Colts as a pass rusher in their 3-4 scheme but he could function in coverage.

They have a guy named Tristan Okpalaugo that is interesting. He's about 6-5, 260. He has freakishly long (36+) arms and big hands. He looked decent in the college game footage that I've seen. He seems like a more athletic version of Selvie.

Quinton Spears (6-5, 230) had 24 sacks in college. He is undersized, but looked super fast/athletic in the game footage that I saw.

If 1 or these 4 could step up and become a quality pass WDE, even if it's only as a Nickel pass rusher, it would be a huge boost to the defense.

None of those 4 will even make the roster at DE, and nor should they. You talk about Wilson and Rayford like they are right out of college, when in reality they have had plenty of time to prove they aren't worthy players. And then the other 2 are such long shots they really aren't even worth discussing. This post is a classic case of "well he's on the cowboys so he's automatically good."

I think we are going to see 1 rookie (1st or 2nd round) + a June 1st cut vet on a 1 year deal brought in with Selvie, Mincey, Crawford, and hopefully Spencer at some point.

 

[dallasdave]

7th

 

[xwalker]

None of those 4 will even make the roster at DE, and nor should they. You talk about Wilson and Rayford like they are right out of college, when in reality they have had plenty of time to prove they aren't worthy players. And then the other 2 are such long shots they really aren't even worth discussing. This post is a classic case of "well he's on the cowboys so he's automatically good."

I think we are going to see 1 rookie (1st or 2nd round) + a June 1st cut vet on a 1 year deal brought in with Selvie, Mincey, Crawford, and hopefully Spencer at some point.

I said that I'm hopeful that 1 of 4 can step up, even if it's only as a Nickel pass rusher.

They were very quick to cut DL players that were not performing in 2013. They even cut Brown who played a lot of snaps.

The fact that they carried Wilson on the roster is significant, IMO.

June 1st cuts are rare now. With the "designated" option, most June 1st cuts have already hit free agency.

 

[xwalker]

None of those 4 will even make the roster at DE, and nor should they. You talk about Wilson and Rayford like they are right out of college, when in reality they have had plenty of time to prove they aren't worthy players. And then the other 2 are such long shots they really aren't even worth discussing. This post is a classic case of "well he's on the cowboys so he's automatically good."

I think we are going to see 1 rookie (1st or 2nd round) + a June 1st cut vet on a 1 year deal brought in with Selvie, Mincey, Crawford, and hopefully Spencer at some point.

This time last year I said that Leary had legit NFL talent and most people scoffed.

 

[tm1119]

I said that I'm hopeful that 1 of 4 can step up, even if it's only as a Nickel pass rusher.

They were very quick to cut DL players that were not performing in 2013. They even cut Brown who played a lot of snaps.

The fact that they carried Wilson on the roster is significant, IMO.

June 1st cuts are rare now. With the "designated" option, most June 1st cuts have already hit free agency.

1st, who told you that Leary didn't have the talent to play in the NFL? I didn't think talent was ever an issue, just wether his knee would hold up or not. I thought it was pretty widely know he was a 3rd/4th round pick before his knee didnt checkout.

And really? It was significant that Wilson was on the roster over the list of other guys who couldn't find a job anywhere else in the nfl? He was on the roster because he was the best of the worst. Congrats to him. Seriously, who else were we going to keep on the roster at DE? Are you counting on big things from Cameron Lawrence too? Or Jeff Heath? Or are you more of a Frank Kearse kind of guy?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We have talked a lot about Lynch, and he would be included on this list but guys that I think will go later (Not 1st Round) in the draft, that I think have some pass rush skills are:



Jeremiah Attaochu
Kareem Martin
Jackson Jeffcoat
Scott Crichton
Demarcus Lawrence
Trent Murphy
Marcus Smith
Trevor Reilly
Chris Smith
Shaquil Barrett
Ethan Westbrook
Larry Webster
Zach Moore
Howard Jones
Tyler Starr
Brian McNally
Terrence Fede
Nakita Witlock

I'm sure there are more but the players that I have looked at that I think could be cosidered as 43 DE Pass Rushers.

 

[xwalker]

1st, who told you that Leary didn't have the talent to play in the NFL? I didn't think talent was ever an issue, just wether his knee would hold up or not. I thought it was pretty widely know he was a 3rd/4th round pick before his knee didnt checkout.

And really? It was significant that Wilson was on the roster over the list of other guys who couldn't find a job anywhere else in the nfl? He was on the roster because he was the best of the worst. Congrats to him. Seriously, who else were we going to keep on the roster at DE? Are you counting on big things from Cameron Lawrence too? Or Jeff Heath? Or are you more of a Frank Kearse kind of guy?

Once Leary had some bad games in the 2012 preseason many people said he was worthless.

If you have a bunch of guys with terrific measureables, the probability is in favor of some of them becoming good players. Martez Wilson has elite measureables. Rayford has elite measureables. Even Heath has elite measureables.

It's better than having 10 Caleb McSurdy type players that don't have NFL type measureables.

You can say a guy like Wilson is a dime a dozen, but in reality there are very few people in the world that are 6-4, 250 and can run a 4.48 forty.