How good was the Arkansas OLine?

[theogt]

Theo, my brother, I was wondering where you got lost to.

You ready for Auburn? OK, coming right up.

:laugh2:

I guess you're skipping North Texas...you know...where Felix had a 35 yard TD run int he 1st quarter. Of course, there's also his 71 yard TD run in the 2nd quarter of that game too, but obviously they were just wore down by McFadden by the 2nd quarter.

And just in case we're counting, that's 4 of his 1st 5 games that support my argument, not yours.

 

[adamknite]

I guess you're skipping North Texas...you know...where Felix had a 35 yard TD run int he 1st quarter. Of course, there's also his 71 yard TD run in the 2nd quarter of that game too, but obviously they were just wore down by McFadden by the 2nd quarter.

ESPN site doesn't have a play by play breakdown of the North Texas game, I don't know if any other place does, but I checked ESPN for a different thread and the play by play wasn't there for that game.

 

[theogt]

ESPN site doesn't have a play by play breakdown of the North Texas game, I don't know if any other place does, but I checked ESPN for a different thread and the play by play wasn't there for that game.

Just look at the scoring summary. He had two 30+ yard TDs in the 1st half. But, like I said, the magical Darren McFadden probably had defenses tired by then.

 

[adamknite]

Just look at the scoring summary. He had two 30+ yard TDs in the 1st half. But, like I said, the magical Darren McFadden probably had defenses tired by then.

I know, 2 carries for like 100 yards. If he averaged 50 yards a carry in the NFL there'd be no stopping us. lolZ.

I was just saying, that could be a possibility of why he is going to Auburn game next. However, I might be wrong.

 

[AsthmaField]

There are a lot of professional scouts who agree with you that Jones is not just a change of pace back but a guy who could carry the load. Certainly, they are more qualified to judge him then I. I'm just trying to find what they are seeing. I've watched Jones myself. Probably not as often as you but I see the change of pace back as well. I don't see the 250 carry guy. I could easily be wrong but I'm looking.

My guess ABQ is that the NFL scouts who see a back who can carry the load are doing so from game film study and not game stats.

I think that shows more fully that Felix could do it and just didn't get the opportunities because DMC got most of the carries.

From the stats, it looks like Felix is a change of pace back because he only carries it a few times... but really that isn't his fault and there was little he could do about it.

With the same number of carries, who's to say Felix wouldn't have been the Heisman candidate?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

My guess ABQ is that the NFL scouts who see a back who can carry the load are doing so from game film study and not game stats.

I think that shows more fully that Felix could do it and just didn't get the opportunities because DMC got most of the carries.

From the stats, it looks like Felix is a change of pace back because he only carries it a few times... but really that isn't his fault and there was little he could do about it.

With the same number of carries, who's to say Felix wouldn't have been the Heisman candidate?

If every NFL guy was in agreement about his ability to be a carry the load back, then I would have zero problem with this line of thinking. The problem is that I hear different opinions on this. Some say yeah, he can. Others say, no, he's a change of pace guy. I agree with you 100% that tape is the best study but I don't have access to that so I go with what I've seen and what info I can access. I have repeatedly stated that the possability is there for me to be wrong about his actual ability to be an every down back. However, clearly from what you can see on the play by play, he was not used that way at Arkansas. DMac was the battering ram and Jones was the change of pace. At least, that's what these numbers reflect to me.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

ESPN site doesn't have a play by play breakdown of the North Texas game, I don't know if any other place does, but I checked ESPN for a different thread and the play by play wasn't there for that game.

Adam, your right. I don't have the play by play for this game so I can't break it down but my old buddy Theo knows this already. I post this twice before in this thread but hey, we all misremember stuff.



"The 4th game I don't have play by play for so I won't break it out but that's fine, it's 9:30 here and I really do need to go home from the office. "

Posted this yesterday just before I left for home.

If the play by play is available, I'd be interested in seeing it. I just couldn't find it is all.

 

[theogt]

Adam, your right. I don't have the play by play for this game so I can't break it down but my old buddy Theo knows this already. I post this twice before in this thread but hey, we all misremember stuff.



"The 4th game I don't have play by play for so I won't break it out but that's fine, it's 9:30 here and I really do need to go home from the office. "

Posted this yesterday just before I left for home.

If the play by play is available, I'd be interested in seeing it. I just couldn't find it is all.

I think it's fair to say that he had an unbelievable 1st quarter and 1st half in that game based on those 2 runs alone.

So, 4 of his first 5 games prove my argument. Waiting for you to come out with some games that prove YOUR argument.

 

[adamknite]

Adam, your right. I don't have the play by play for this game so I can't break it down but my old buddy Theo knows this already. I post this twice before in this thread but hey, we all misremember stuff.



"The 4th game I don't have play by play for so I won't break it out but that's fine, it's 9:30 here and I really do need to go home from the office. "

Posted this yesterday just before I left for home.

If the play by play is available, I'd be interested in seeing it. I just couldn't find it is all.

http://www.hogwired.com/pdf1/87767.pdf?ATCLID=1206333&SPSID=30723&SPID=2419&DB_OEM_ID=6100

-It's in a PDF

www.hogwired.com has the complete game stats of every game like that. Starts on the 8th page.

I don't think McFadden or Felix touch the ball after the 4:00 minute mark in the 2nd Quarter.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Why does it even matter if he's a "carry the load" back?

Everyone agrees that Choice is a big, strong, "carry the load" back. So why did he go in the 4th round and Felix -- or Chris Johnson -- go in the 1st? Because it sounds like some people think that "carry the load" backs should always be valued higher.

 

[AsthmaField]

clearly from what you can see on the play by play, he was not used that way at Arkansas.

Yes... that much is crystal clear. You just can't tell much more with any degree of accuracy.

Either way, we're cool because we have Barber and Choice and Felix gives us some dimensions that IMO, Mendenhall can't.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think it's fair to say that he had an unbelievable 1st quarter and 1st half in that game based on those 2 runs alone.

So, 4 of his first 5 games prove my argument. Waiting for you to come out with some games that prove YOUR argument.

I don't have an argument Theo. I'm simply presenting facts and posters can come to there own conclusions. I'm sure your right on what you say above about the unbelievable Blah... Blah.... Blah..... but if it's all the same to you, because you do tend to MisRemember/Twist stuff, I'll just wait tell I actually see how and when he broke those runs. I mean, what you say could be true, seeing as it is NORTH TEXAS, but it could also reflect what every other game, to this point, has reflected.

After all, McFadden did have 19 carries for 138 yards and 2 TDs that game as well, all in the first half. Arkansas had 713 total yards against this team. While I'm certain Jones had a great game against NTexas, I don't know that it proves much or that you can just ignore how he was used and when. Sounds to me like this game was not much different then the others but I can't say that for sure. I have not seen the play by play.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

http://www.hogwired.com/pdf1/87767.pdf?ATCLID=1206333&SPSID=30723&SPID=2419&DB_OEM_ID=6100

-It's in a PDF

www.hogwired.com has the complete game stats of every game like that. Starts on the 8th page.

I don't think McFadden or Felix touch the ball after the 4:00 minute mark in the 2nd Quarter.

Hey Adam, thank you man. I will look at this one as well. I appriciate you taking the time to find this.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yes... that much is crystal clear. You just can't tell much more with any degree of accuracy.

Either way, we're cool because we have Barber and Choice and Felix gives us some dimensions that IMO, Mendenhall can't.

I'll tell you, I was plenty pissed off when we passed on Mendenhall to take Jones. Having said that, I'm not nearly as upset about it now that we have Choice. To me, Choice is a real good option to Barber. I hope Jones has the same kind of success with us, as he did at Arkansas. I don't know that he will but I do hope so. When it's all said and done, he's a Cowboy now and we did spend a #1 on him. He pretty much as to produce or it's a waist and nobody wants that.

 

[theogt]

I don't have an argument Theo.

I know. :

 

[adamknite]

Hey Adam, thank you man. I will look at this one as well. I appriciate you taking the time to find this.

No problem, didn't take any time really.

I should have looked there earlier, but sometimes my brain wonders. It never struck me to check hogwired the time when I was looking up all those stats.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Why does it even matter if he's a "carry the load" back?

Everyone agrees that Choice is a big, strong, "carry the load" back. So why did he go in the 4th round and Felix -- or Chris Johnson -- go in the 1st? Because it sounds like some people think that "carry the load" backs should always be valued higher.

I do believe this Lab. I never liked the pick of Bush two years ago because I felt like he was a bit of a gimmick back. I mean, if he's in the right situation, he's a real threat. However, if he isn't, you got an expensive tackling dummy on your hands. To be honest, I don't think RBs should be taken high, at all, unless they are franchise type backs who have the chance to be all time kinds of players. That's just me and how I view the value of the position in todays game. I don't know if that's right or not but I know that this is how I look at it.

 

[BigDave95]

I've seen every carry of Felix Jones career. I've seen him play in person 16 times and seen the rest of his games on tv. I might not be an expert on much but I know a little bit about Felix and Darren.

Felix did NOT simply pad his stats by running against tired defenses late in games. His yardage and big plays were fairly evenly distributed throughout the 1st and 2nd halves and throughout the early and late season games. I'd be shocked if you could find any trend to support that argument.

He did NOT get easy yards because defenses were so glad McFadden was out of the games, they just rested. That one keeps getting repeated and is pretty ridiculous.

There is some shred of truth, however, to the "Felix was only great because of McFadden" argument. The formation where Felix got the majority of his big plays was the Wild Hog. This is the formation I'm sure you've all seen where McFadden lines up in the shotgun and takes the direct snap. On these plays, Felix is sent in motion so he's close to full speed when the ball is snapped. Defenses are forced to pack the box tight to stop McFadden from running up the gut. When they do, DMac hands to Felix (who's in a dead sprint) and Felix easily gains the edge and gets to the outside. While Felix still does amazing things once he gets in space, there's no denying that if not for defenses keying on McFadden, Felix couldn't get in space so easily and so consistently.

So I don't buy into the "tired defenses" or "resting defenses" arguments at all. But there is no question a large part of Felix's success is thanks to McFadden.