How long before. . . .

[Doomsday101]

One can view this as putting a label on what type of arsehole he is. The thing about personality disorders is that they reflect deeply ingrained ways about how a person thinks, functions and relates to other people. They are also known to be almost impossible to treat.

Again I don't buy into the personality disorder. You make it sound as if this behavior is beyond TO control or that he is a sick man. You may believe in the physiatrist mumbo gumbo I don't.

 

[AbeBeta]

TO claims he is Bi-Polar and starts the poor me routine? "I have a sickness that is now under control thanks to modern medicine."

umm, Bi-Polar is a disease. If someone were to have this illness it would excuse a lot of actions -- as many of their behaviors would be produced by serious chemical imbalances in their brain.

pro athletes who suffer from this would have a very hard time playing while under medication. people with this illness generally spend years with their doctors trying to get matched with the best drug treatment.

Eskimo's diagnosis of Nacisistic personality disorder is good. However, much of TO's nacissism is warranted. He's not puffing himself up -- he truly is one of the best receivers in the league.

Honestly, I don't think TO is mentally ill -- he's just a jerk.

 

[AbeBeta]

You may believe in the physiatrist mumbo gumbo I don't.

Let's not be ignorant. There are a ton of legitimate mental illnesses that are associated with neurochemical imbalances.

This isn't touchy-feely mumbo jumbo. This is hard science. This isn't "wah I didn't get what I wanted as a child so I behave poorly" stuff. This is dudes in lab coats cutting apart brains. There is a huge difference.

But as far as TO goes - he's not mentally ill - he's just a jerk

 

[Doomsday101]

Let's not be ignorant. There are a ton of legitimate mental illnesses that are associated with neurochemical imbalances.

This isn't touchy-feely mumbo jumbo. This is hard science. This isn't "wah I didn't get what I wanted as a child so I behave poorly" stuff. This is dudes in lab coats cutting apart brains. There is a huge difference.

But as far as TO goes - he's not mentally ill - he's just a jerk

I'm not, these problems were not occurring in the NFL until recently now all of a sudden people want to make excuses for poor behavior. Sorry I'm not buying it any longer. These are grown men and they act like little kids and if they are mentally sick then they have no business playing in the NFL this is a business not a day care for the mentally ill. I'm not trying to offend anyone but I'm sick and tired of the excuses given to these idiots.

 

[Portland Fanatic]

I'm not, these problems were not occurring in the NFL until recently now all of a sudden people want to make excuses for poor behavior. Sorry I'm not buying it any longer. These are grown men and they act like little kids and if they are mentally sick then they have no business playing in the NFL this is a business not a day care for the mentally ill. I'm not trying to offend anyone but I'm sick and tired of the excuses given to these idiots.

I understand what you are saying, however very blunt.

I think in the past players found a way to deal with these issues, personally, medically, however...OR they eventually found themselves out of a job because it simply became to much for them or the organization.

We now live in a world that LOVES to label people....so if TO is acting a certain way...folks are quick to jump on the label wagon...or any other player for that matter. It's to the point where eveyone appears to have a degree in this area.

But there is one label that cetainly fits TO...that is the "arse hole" label...and he's wearing it proudly!

 

[Yeagermeister]

I think he likely suffers from a "Narcissistic Personallity Disorder"

First here is an explanation of what a personality disorder is:

A personality disorder is a pattern of deviant or abnormal behavior that the person doesn't change even though it causes emotional upsets and trouble with other people at work and in personal relationships. It is not limited to episodes of mental illness, and it is not caused by drug or alcohol use, head injury, or illness. There are about a dozen different behavior patterns classified as personality disorders by DSM-IV. All the personality disorders show up as deviations from normal in one or more of the following:
(1) cognition -- i.e., perception, thinking, and interpretation of oneself, other people, and events;
(2) affectivity -- i.e., emotional responses (range, intensity, lability, appropriateness);
(3) interpersonal functions;
(4) impulsivity.

These are the DSM criteria for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

• 
  An exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
  
  Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
  
  Believes he is "special" and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
  
  Requires excessive admiration
  
  Has a sense of entitlement
  
  Selfishly takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends
  
  Lacks empathy
  
  Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him
  
  Shows arrogant, haughty, patronizing, or contemptuous behaviors or attitudes

 

[AbeBeta]

I'm not, these problems were not occurring in the NFL until recently now all of a sudden people want to make excuses for poor behavior. Sorry I'm not buying it any longer. These are grown men and they act like little kids and if they are mentally sick then they have no business playing in the NFL this is a business not a day care for the mentally ill. I'm not trying to offend anyone but I'm sick and tired of the excuses given to these idiots.

Dude -- if someone is mentally ill they are ILL. A guy like Dmitrius Underwood -- he was sick -- very very sick. Barrett Robbins as well. They couldn't control their behavior. It's not an excuse. It is a fact.

I'll be the first to slam touchy-feely psychobabble crap -- but many mental illnesses have tons of hard science supporting their existence and their impacts.

Ignorant attitudes about mental illness stigmatize those folks who suffer and make it less likely for them to seek help.

But again, TO is just a jerk.

 

[Doomsday101]

Dude -- if someone is mentally ill they are ILL. A guy like Dmitrius Underwood -- he was sick -- very very sick. Barrett Robbins as well. They couldn't control their behavior. It's not an excuse. It is a fact.

I'll be the first to slam touchy-feely psychobabble crap -- but many mental illnesses have tons of hard science supporting their existence and their impacts.

Ignorant attitudes about mental illness stigmatize those folks who suffer and make it less likely for them to seek help.

But again, TO is just a jerk.

I'm not saying that there are no instances of mental illness but by and large what I see in professional sports are spoiled brats who from High School through College had Head Coaches who made excuses for them and never held them accountable outside of football and bailed them out of trouble. Now they are grown men and can't control anything in their lives because they don't know how to. That is not mental illness that is immaturity.

 

[dougonthebench]

sometimes I wish I could just close my eyes and TO would just go away.Too bad it doesnt happen like that!

 

[RCowboyFan]

Well it is easy to see the comparison. Guys with great talent that create turmoil where ever they go. In the end management always gets to the point where they realize they are not worth the trouble they create for the team.

Please, how much turmoil did he cause with Bulls? How much did he cause with Pistons when he was there first time?

Just because you didn't like his appearance or his antics, don't say he caused team's issue. A player who causes team issues, should make the team lose championships not be a very key and important player in 3 championships. I was huge Bulls/Jordan fan and pretty much followed the team closely during Jordan years. I know for a fact, he was basically was never an issue for Bulls other than maybe couple of occasions, which was handled in house and he never spouted to media about it. Jordan and Pippen pretty much controlled him.

TO cannot be controlled by anyone. No comparison at all.

 

[Doomsday101]

Please, how much turmoil did he cause with Bulls? How much did he cause with Pistons when he was there first time?

Just because you didn't like his appearance or his antics, don't say he caused team's issue. A player who causes team issues, should make the team lose championships not be a very key and important player in 3 championships. I was huge Bulls/Jordan fan and pretty much followed the team closely during Jordan years. I know for a fact, he was basically was never an issue for Bulls other than maybe couple of occasions, which was handled in house and he never spouted to media about it. Jordan and Pippen pretty much controlled him.

TO cannot be controlled by anyone. No comparison at all.

If you go by what the organizations had to say about him and the reason they released him then it is not hard to see. No one cuts great talent unless that player gives them a reason to do so. Rodman has given these team ample reasons.

 

[RCowboyFan]

If you go by what the organizations had to say about him and the reason they released him then it is not hard to see. No one cuts great talent unless that player gives them a reason to do so. Rodman has given these team ample reasons.

Dude, the only organizations that bad mouthed him are the ones where he didn't do much. Bulls he left when his contract was pretty much up and Bulls cut Jordon/Pippen etc. in mass exodus.

Pistons the same thing, i.e. their run was over with and the coach left. San Antonio was different deal. This is where he had troubles and was even a factor in team issues. Even that he rarely berated his team mates.

Its one thing about off the field antics or some of the fights he got on the field with opposing team players, which might have caused the team to lose games. But he never went to media to bad mouth his team mates. Heck numerous interviews he always praised Jordan as greatest player ever and some he respects the most. He had the same respect for Isiah Thomas.

A player who is cancer will never be asked to teach young players how to play the game. This was the case when I think Denver, if I am right on the team, wanted to bring him in for year in his later years, and he refused because he thought he wasn't a mentoring type. Whatever his issues were, Rodman played hard and rarely caused issues with teams he won well with. Lakers were the only team, I remember where he had big time issues. But lakers were and are disfunctional team in recent years.

 

[Doomsday101]

Dude, the only organizations that bad mouthed him are the ones where he didn't do much. Bulls he left when his contract was pretty much up and Bulls cut Jordon/Pippen etc. in mass exodus.

Pistons the same thing, i.e. their run was over with and the coach left. San Antonio was different deal. This is where he had troubles and was even a factor in team issues. Even that he rarely berated his team mates.

Its one thing about off the field antics or some of the fights he got on the field with opposing team players, which might have caused the team to lose games. But he never went to media to bad mouth his team mates. Heck numerous interviews he always praised Jordan as greatest player ever and some he respects the most. He had the same respect for Isiah Thomas.

A player who is cancer will never be asked to teach young players how to play the game. This was the case when I think Denver, if I am right on the team, wanted to bring him in for year in his later years, and he refused because he thought he wasn't a mentoring type. Whatever his issues were, Rodman played hard and rarely caused issues with teams he won well with. Lakers were the only team, I remember where he had big time issues. But lakers were and are disfunctional team in recent years.

I'm not going to argue this, Rodman in my mind was a complete and utter jerk and same with TO. If you like the guy well that is your opinion. Myself I could careless about either of these guys.

 

[RCowboyFan]

I'm not going to argue this, Rodman in my mind was a complete and utter jerk and same with TO. If you like the guy well that is your opinion. Myself I could careless about either of these guys.

Well Opinions are .... But equating Rodman with TO doesn't compute. You are the one who put that out, and that is not a valid comparison by any means. Just like people out there are equating TO situation to Keyshaun situation in Tampa.

That is samething about camparing situations. If a player has trouble with Coaches or Organization its one thing. But its totally a different thing to bad mouth teamates publicly, not once but with two teams he has played with.

Normally I am with you on most opinions, so I have nothing against you. But you are way off with comparison. Sure you can have an opinion about Rodman being a jerk, there is no need to justify that.

But the problem with your statements on this thread was you were saying or implying Rodman was a cancer to his team or every team he went to, which is clearly not the case or never been the case unlike TO. Who clearly is self centered Jerk, who cares nothing about a "TEAM".

 

[Doomsday101]

Well Opinions are .... But equating Rodman with TO doesn't compute. You are the one who put that out, and that is not a valid comparison by any means. Just like people out there are equating TO situation to Keyshaun situation in Tampa.

That is samething about camparing situations. If a player has trouble with Coaches or Organization its one thing. But its totally a different thing to bad mouth teamates publicly, not once but with two teams he has played with.

Normally I am with you on most opinions, so I have nothing against you. But you are way off with comparison. Sure you can have an opinion about Rodman being a jerk, there is no need to justify that.

But the problem with your statements on this thread was you were saying or implying Rodman was a cancer to his team or every team he went to, which is clearly not the case or never been the case unlike TO. Who clearly is self centered Jerk, who cares nothing about a "TEAM".

I'm not asking for people to agree with me this is how I feel. I saw Rodman quite a bit with the spurs and saw his antics and the trouble he caused for them.

 

[RCowboyFan]

I'm not asking for people to agree with me this is how I feel. I saw Rodman quite a bit with the spurs and saw his antics and the trouble he caused for them.

I was in San Antonio when he was with Spurs. And actually I happen to agree with him about the team. Spurs lacked the killer instinct when he played with them, before Tim Duncan era, i.e. during David Robinson era, I too felt Robinson was too much of nice guy.

But I digress and I agree he ruffled lot of feathers the 2-3 years he was with Spurs. Anyway, this is moot argument. I have issue with the statements like "thats how I feel, so thats all it takes to make it valid". Because once you or me or anyone else states something in here, its up for discussion.But lets leave it alone I guess.

Like you said above, we'll agree to disagree then.

 

[Doomsday101]

I was in San Antonio when he was with Spurs. And actually I happen to agree with him about the team. Spurs lacked the killer instinct when he played with them, before Tim Duncan era, i.e. during David Robinson era, I too felt Robinson was too much of nice guy.

But I digress and I agree he ruffled lot of feathers the 2-3 years he was with Spurs. Anyway, this is moot argument. I have issue with the statements like "thats how I feel, so thats all it takes to make it valid". Because once you or me or anyone else states something in here, its up for discussion.But lets leave it alone I guess.

Like you said above, we'll agree to disagree then.

That's cool; I have a lot of respect for your opinion and normally agree with you on most topics this is just not one of them.

 

[JonJon]

I would have loved to have been in the locker room when T.O. yelled, "Who else wants some of T.O.?" after scuffling with a teammate.

 

[RCowboyFan]

That's cool; I have a lot of respect for your opinion and normally agree with you on most topics this is just not one of them.

Hey, exactly, as long we don't go "TO" on each other, that just fine See now, TO will become a punch line

 

[Doomsday101]

Hey, exactly, as long we don't go "TO" on each other, that just fine See now, TO will become a punch line

I would never go TO on you. LOL