How Many of Y'all would take Sean Payton Over Wade Phillips as Cowboys Head Coach?

[GimmeTheBall!]

What he meant was IF we go one and done yet again in the playoffs, that would make him 0-2, and yes, he would be hitting the road from there.

If Wade goes one and out in the playoffs, he'd be 0-2 as the Cowboys HC but (correct me if I am wrong) 0-5 as a HC here and elsewhere.

 

[Alexander]

I think it's actually 0-1, ... hardly a measuring stick to hold someone to.

Parcells was 0-2, maybe that's who you were thinking about.

I meant if he was 0-2 with us. I don't suggest firing him off of one loss. But his playoff record should alarm anyone.

 

[Alexander]

Two years ago? Sure. But after last season's disaster, and this year's uninspiring start, nah.

The Saints epitomized a team that was undisciplined and couldn't close the deal against Minnesota. And it's been that way there since last year. When I watch Payton coach these days, I rarely think, "Man, we could have had that."

Interesting.

I never watched Denver and Buffalo throughout the years and never thought "I wish we could have Wade Phillips as our head coach" either.

 

[theogt]

I really am starting to think we have some of the dumbest fans.

We do. You have to be brain dead to even consider Payton over Wade.

 

[Boysboy]

Interesting.

I never watched Denver and Buffalo throughout the years and never thought "I wish we could have Wade Phillips as our head coach" either.

I saw alot of Bills games during the Wade years there. I was in New Orleans at the time, but b/c the Bills were one of the best teams during this stretch, alot of their games got televised.

Anyhow-they were a very good team under him AND very well coached. He just got a string a bad luck, that's all. In the '99 playoffs, Ralph Wilson forced him to start Rob Johnson over Doug Flutie-otherwise, me thinks the Bills would have gotten to the Super Bowl that year AND would have beaten the Rams as well.

 

[DallasEast]

How many of us would take a super lottery winning over your current salary?

I know that I would and I want it. Now!











Damn.

 

[Alexander]

I saw alot of Bills games during the Wade years there. I was in New Orleans at the time, but b/c the Bills were one of the best teams during this stretch, alot of their games got televised.

Anyhow-they were a very good team under him AND very well coached. He just got a string a bad luck, that's all. In the '99 playoffs, Ralph Wilson forced him to start Rob Johnson over Doug Flutie-otherwise, me thinks the Bills would have gotten to the Super Bowl that year AND would have beaten the Rams as well.

I don't believe in luck, not when the same syndromes repeat themselves over and over. If he does not win and win big in Dallas, I am sure Phillips' coaching epitath will read "good coach" but certainly not "good head coach".

 

[Boysboy]

I don't believe in luck, not when the same syndromes repeat themselves over and over. If he does not win and win big in Dallas, I am sure Phillips' coaching epitath will read "good coach" but certainly not "good head coach".

Yeah-but how would you feel if your owner cornered you into starting some incompetent **** over someone(Flutie) who got you competitive again?

If you watched that "Music City Miracle" game, IF Flutie had played, the Bills win by double digits. Rob Johnson was just holding onto the ball too long, one of which resulted in a safety. Otherwise, it would NEVER have gone down to that last miracle play.

Remember how we gave Jerry all this flack for years for being even more meddling? Chan Gailey was actually a good coach-if Jerry had kept his thumb out, who knows how better we would have been?

 

[Alexander]

Yeah-but how would you feel if your owner cornered you into starting some incompetent **** over someone(Flutie) who got you competitive again?

If you watched that "Music City Miracle" game, IF Flutie had played, the Bills win by double digits. Rob Johnson was just holding onto the ball too long, one of which resulted in a safety. Otherwise, it would NEVER have gone down to that last miracle play.

Remember how we gave Jerry all this flack for years for being even more meddling? Chan Gailey was actually a good coach-if Jerry had kept his thumb out, who knows how better we would have been?

I suspect you might be operating off a little revisionist history here.

This is a direct quote from Phillips prior to the game when he decided to bench Flutie:

"My feeling is with either one of them we can win," Phillips said. "It was a tough decision. It wasn't a haphazard thing."

Here is a full article on the affect it had on that team from a player who was there:

[SIZE=+2][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]Christie: Bills divided by QB controversy[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]

By The Associated Press

TORONTO — Kicker Steve Christie said Buffalo's quarterback controversy divided the Bills' locker room before the season even started. The split began when coach Wade Phillips started Rob Johnson in place of Doug Flutie in last season's AFC wild-card playoff loss to Tennessee, Christie told The Canadian Press on Wednesday. ''That Tennessee thing was much more than a bloop kick and a runback,'' Christie said, referring to the Titans' dramatic last-second game-winning kickoff return. ''Half the locker room was on one side and the other was on the other,'' he said. ''That's no way to go into the playoffs. You can't point blame one way or the other. It's just the players were confused. You need to be a solid unit, mentally and physically, going into the playoffs, and I don't think we were.''

Christie, the Bills' career scoring leader who becomes an unrestricted free agent this offseason, spoke from an undisclosed location in Virginia, where he was on vacation. He is the first Bills player to admit publicly how deeply the rift affected the team.

Bills officials were not immediately available for comment.

Tensions flared late in 1999 when Flutie, who had gone 10-5 as a starter, was relegated to backup in place of Johnson before the season finale.
'
'The guys are divided because everyone likes Rob. He's a good guy and is laid back,'' Christie said. ''But Doug gets them going much more when he's on the field. He changes things when he's out there. It's a different game with Doug.''

Christie's comments mirrored those made by unidentified players quoted in a Sports Illustrated article published last November.

''All Doug thinks about is helping the team win and how he can do that,'' one player was quoted as saying. ''Rob seems distracted by things, like wanting everyone to like him.''

That article led Johnson to accuse Flutie of being the source of those statements, which were made while Johnson was in the midst of missing four starts with a separated shoulder.

''Public sentiment is so for Doug and it will always be for Doug,'' Johnson said. ''It makes it hard for the team when I go out there and get booed in warmups, or throw the ball away and get booed, and have a concussion and get cheered.''

Johnson struggled as a starter this season, further fueling the controversy. He was knocked out of five starts due to injury and eventually missed five starts because he was hurt. Flutie, meanwhile, went 4-1 as a starter, and helped lead Buffalo to another victory.

Phillips previously said there is no controversy, and accused the media of generating one.

Christie said the loss of a number of team leaders due to salary cap restraints last winter complicated matters.

''So now you're expecting Rob and Doug to be your leaders. But neither one is really, truly the leader, which a quarterback should be,'' Christie said.

If Wilson meddled, it was on Ronnie Jones, who Phillips refused to fire. There is not much evidence Phillips was coerced to start Johnson. If you have proof otherwise, please share.

 

[Boysboy]

I suspect you might be operating off a little revisionist history here.

This is a direct quote from Phillips prior to the game when he decided to bench Flutie:

"My feeling is with either one of them we can win," Phillips said. "It was a tough decision. It wasn't a haphazard thing."

Here is a full article on the affect it had on that team from a player who was there:

[SIZE=+2][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]Christie: Bills divided by QB controversy[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]

By The Associated Press

TORONTO — Kicker Steve Christie said Buffalo's quarterback controversy divided the Bills' locker room before the season even started. The split began when coach Wade Phillips started Rob Johnson in place of Doug Flutie in last season's AFC wild-card playoff loss to Tennessee, Christie told The Canadian Press on Wednesday. ''That Tennessee thing was much more than a bloop kick and a runback,'' Christie said, referring to the Titans' dramatic last-second game-winning kickoff return. ''Half the locker room was on one side and the other was on the other,'' he said. ''That's no way to go into the playoffs. You can't point blame one way or the other. It's just the players were confused. You need to be a solid unit, mentally and physically, going into the playoffs, and I don't think we were.''

Christie, the Bills' career scoring leader who becomes an unrestricted free agent this offseason, spoke from an undisclosed location in Virginia, where he was on vacation. He is the first Bills player to admit publicly how deeply the rift affected the team.

Bills officials were not immediately available for comment.

Tensions flared late in 1999 when Flutie, who had gone 10-5 as a starter, was relegated to backup in place of Johnson before the season finale.
'
'The guys are divided because everyone likes Rob. He's a good guy and is laid back,'' Christie said. ''But Doug gets them going much more when he's on the field. He changes things when he's out there. It's a different game with Doug.''

Christie's comments mirrored those made by unidentified players quoted in a Sports Illustrated article published last November.

''All Doug thinks about is helping the team win and how he can do that,'' one player was quoted as saying. ''Rob seems distracted by things, like wanting everyone to like him.''

That article led Johnson to accuse Flutie of being the source of those statements, which were made while Johnson was in the midst of missing four starts with a separated shoulder.

''Public sentiment is so for Doug and it will always be for Doug,'' Johnson said. ''It makes it hard for the team when I go out there and get booed in warmups, or throw the ball away and get booed, and have a concussion and get cheered.''

Johnson struggled as a starter this season, further fueling the controversy. He was knocked out of five starts due to injury and eventually missed five starts because he was hurt. Flutie, meanwhile, went 4-1 as a starter, and helped lead Buffalo to another victory.

Phillips previously said there is no controversy, and accused the media of generating one.

Christie said the loss of a number of team leaders due to salary cap restraints last winter complicated matters.

''So now you're expecting Rob and Doug to be your leaders. But neither one is really, truly the leader, which a quarterback should be,'' Christie said.

If Wilson meddled, it was on Ronnie Jones, who Phillips refused to fire. There is not much evidence Phillips was coerced to start Johnson. If you have proof otherwise, please share.

It was years ago, but when the story first broke a week before that playoff game, the national sports media like ESPN and Fox Sports were saying how Wilson pressured him to do so. I need to google it to see if this is right. Hey-if I'm wrong, I'll come back to eat crow.

But last year when I was on the Bills MB before we played them, for the most part, the majority of them DO like Wade alot, thought he got shafted, and even said how they would take him and Kevin Gilbride over their HCs and OCs during their post-Wade/Gilbride years anyday. Take it FWIW.

 

[Alexander]

It was years ago, but when the story first broke a week before that playoff game, the national sports media like ESPN and Fox Sports were saying how Wilson pressured him to do so.

ESPN? :laugh2:

There is your problem right there.

But last year when I was on the Bills MB before we played them, for the most part, the majority of them DO like Wade alot, thought he got shafted, and even said how they would take him and Kevin Gilbride over their HCs and OCs during their post-Wade/Gilbride years anyday. Take it FWIW.

I am sure they would. I am sure we would take Phillips over the coaches we had post-Jimmy Johnson. You are talking about a fairly mediocre group of coaches like Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey. Hardly a pair of all-stars. Dick Jauron is fairly similar to Phillips in terms of head coaching ability. Not great, but above average and more suited for a well-paid coordinator position not the overall management of a championship quality team.

 

[Parche]

Always... Again: always the one who's not here is better than the one that it is.


Except if the one here win the SB, of course. If not, there is always someone better out there.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

I would take Payton as the head coach over Phillips.

 

[AdamJT13]

Payton is 11-15 in his past 26 games as head coach (and 20-19 overall). If he had never been an assistant coach in Dallas, would anyone even be asking this question? Or would it be about someone like Ken Whisenhunt, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin or Mike Smith?

I suspect a lot of the answers in this thread have more to do with Phillips than with Payton.

 

[Boysboy]

Payton is 11-15 in his past 26 games as head coach (and 20-19 overall). If he had never been an assistant coach in Dallas, would anyone even be asking this question? Or would it be about someone like Ken Whisenhunt, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin or Mike Smith?

I suspect a lot of the answers in this thread have more to do with Phillips than with Payton.

FWIW-Payton has been a longtime assistant in this league. He was in Philly for a couple of years, then he was in NYG for some years until he came here. If anything, his name has been known for quite awhile.

BTW-the Saints OL is poopie. Saints fans have complained alot about his playcalling, but when your OL sucks, your playbook is limited to begin with.

 

[Alexander]

Saints fans have complained alot about his playcalling

Fact is, playcalling shouldn't be the main criteria that a head coach is judged by. If so, we could jump all over Phillips' poor playcalling also. For that matter, Jason Garrett. I have never been a proponent of a head coach calling plays and you often see a coach spreading himself too thin. A head coach should oversee the entire operation and manage the processes IMO.

To me, the question was whether or not Payton was preferable as a head coach. I say yes as I think he has a better skillset and temperment. And it has nothing to do with whether or not he made some bad playcalls the other night. Had a little chihuahua kicker made a very easy FG, they would not be saying a thing.

 

[AdamJT13]

FWIW-Payton has been a longtime assistant in this league. He was in Philly for a couple of years, then he was in NYG for some years until he came here. If anything, his name has been known for quite awhile.

I know that. My point is that if he had never worked for us, would this question even be asked?

Do you think fans in Seattle are clamoring for Sean Payton? No. They wish they had Jim Zorn as Holmgren's replacement instead of Jim Mora Jr. Zorn played and coached in Seattle, and unlike Payton, his team is winning. Do you think the Raiders fans are wishing they had Sean Payton? I don't. He's no different from a lot of other young coaches in the league -- except that others have had more success, even if they never did work for the Cowboys.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Payton is 11-15 in his past 26 games as head coach (and 20-19 overall). If he had never been an assistant coach in Dallas, would anyone even be asking this question? Or would it be about someone like Ken Whisenhunt, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin or Mike Smith?

I suspect a lot of the answers in this thread have more to do with Phillips than with Payton.

Bingo. If he hadn't been here most people wouldn't even think twice about him. They'd be talking about one of those guys or one of the other hot prospects out there like the New England OC or something.

Fact is, playcalling shouldn't be the main criteria that a head coach is judged by. If so, we could jump all over Phillips' poor playcalling also. For that matter, Jason Garrett. I have never been a proponent of a head coach calling plays and you often see a coach spreading himself too thin. A head coach should oversee the entire operation and manage the processes IMO.

To me, the question was whether or not Payton was preferable as a head coach. I say yes as I think he has a better skillset and temperment. And it has nothing to do with whether or not he made some bad playcalls the other night. Had a little chihuahua kicker made a very easy FG, they would not be saying a thing.

LOL! Very easy FG. That's a good one. And if Drew Brees had completed one more of those very easy passes to complete or Reggie Bush broke off one more of those very easy long touchdown runs then the Saints wouldn't have to worry about the loss.

If only every NFL player just took care of making sure they made every very easy play in their careers.

 

[Boysboy]

Fact is, playcalling shouldn't be the main criteria that a head coach is judged by. If so, we could jump all over Phillips' poor playcalling also. For that matter, Jason Garrett. I have never been a proponent of a head coach calling plays and you often see a coach spreading himself too thin. A head coach should oversee the entire operation and manage the processes IMO.

To me, the question was whether or not Payton was preferable as a head coach. I say yes as I think he has a better skillset and temperment. And it has nothing to do with whether or not he made some bad playcalls the other night. Had a little chihuahua kicker made a very easy FG, they would not be saying a thing.

Apparently Benson likes Payton-he got an extension prior to this year(and this despite a lukewarm '07 season).

 

[AdamJT13]

Apparently Benson likes Payton-he got an extension prior to this year(and this despite a lukewarm '07 season).

You apparently aren't comprehending what is being said.

Nobody said Payton is a bad coach or that he shouldn't be the Saints' coach. What I said was that if Payton had never worked for Dallas, I don't think this thread would have been about Payton -- it would have been about some other young coach, such as the ones I listed.