How many wins are bus driving QB's responsible for?

CowboyFrog

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Did he really? He was 5-1 which was pretty good. He did lose to the Eagles (the eventually NFC Champions) and had a bad game and? As if Dak never has bad games against good teams? He does it ALL the time.
talk about arguing with Vacuums..Rush is not a good QB, you dont like Dak no problem, you want to replace Dak again no problem with it..you try and prop up Cooper Rush's QB play with those games..well you look like someone who should'nt share your opinions on QB play...his play wasn't good, dont care how the games ended they had not one thing to do with how he played....until he played a team that could actually score..then his play FOR SURE determined the outcome...ever called someone a football idiot for saying Dak is as good as Mahomes? well this has the same lvl of idiocy...
 

Jayinem

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talk about arguing with Vacuums..Rush is not a good QB, you dont like Dak no problem, you want to replace Dak again no problem with it..you try and prop up Cooper Rush's QB play with those games..well you look like someone who should'nt share your opinions on QB play...his play wasn't good, dont care how the games ended they had not one thing to do with how he played....until he played a team that could actually score..then his play FOR SURE determined the outcome...
That's not what the board was saying while he was playing. It was around 50/50 wanting him to stay starting QB over Dak. Time made some of you forget he was pretty good. Maybe if he had an off-season with starting QB reps who knows. I don't think it was proven with that one game that Rush is just an awful QB. Why is he judged on one game when Dak gets a pass on 20 bad games?

But I know this is an argument that can't be won because the Dak train runs strong. I'd like to see Rush play a playoff game I bet he wouldn't have trouble swallowing like Dak.

Why can Dak do it with ease in the regular season against bad teams then choke in the playoffs? Because that's who he is. We don't know that about Rush or trying some other QB.
 

CowboyFrog

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That's not what the board was saying while he was playing. It was around 50/50 wanting him to stay starting QB over Dak. Time made some of you forget he was pretty good. Maybe if he had an off-season with starting QB reps who knows. I don't think it was proven with that one game that Rush is just an awful QB. Why is he judged on one game when Dak gets a pass on 20 bad games?

But I know this is an argument that can't be won because the Dak train runs strong. I'd like to see Rush play a playoff game I bet he wouldn't have trouble swallowing like Dak.

Why can Dak do it with ease in the regular season against bad teams then choke in the playoffs? Because that's who he is. We don't know that about Rush or trying some other QB.
we do know Rush cant make the throws, if you watched the games he played...I FOR SURE know he wasnt scoring 28 points against GB because we couldn't run the ball and he doesnt have the arm to make plays against that defense...Again if you watched the games Rush played you know why they won...now wether your Dak thing will let you admit it thats a diferent story...again Dak/ replace Dak i dont care..Cooper Rush is not a starting QB in this league not even close and every GM in the league backed that up this offseason.
 

Jayinem

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we do know Rush cant make the throws, if you watched the games he played...I FOR SURE know he wasnt scoring 28 points against GB because we couldn't run the ball and he doesnt have the arm to make plays against that defense...Again if you watched the games Rush played you know why they won...now wether your Dak thing will let you admit it thats a diferent story...again Dak/ replace Dak i dont care..Cooper Rush is not a starting QB in this league not even close and every GM in the league backed that up this offseason.
It was 27-0 with Dak as Quarterback, the guy who wants 60 million or whatever per year. Dak is great in garbage time when the game is over that's where all those points came in. You guys want to blame it 100% on the defense who were awful there's no doubt but you see Dak got the ball back every time the Packers scored and couldn't do a damn thing except a pick 6 and another INT. Rush could have kept it closer then 27-0. Just about any QB could have. I'm talking about before it got out of hand because 99% of the time the game is over if you're down 27 points at ANY point of the game.

Dak is a better regular season QB than Rush but he's historically one of the worst QBs of all time in the playoffs. Do you care more about regular season wins or playoff?

2-5 in the playoffs for his career, 1-3 at home. That's 3 out of 4 games that we should have won but didn't and Dak was bad in all 3. You're supposed to win your home playoff games.
 
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CowboyFrog

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It was 27-0 with Dak as Quarterback, the guy who wants 60 million or whatever per year. Dak is great in garbage time when the game is over that's where all those points came in. You guys want to blame it 100% on the defense who were awful there's no doubt but you see Dak got the ball back every time the Packers scored and couldn't do a damn thing except a pick 6 and another INT. Rush could have kept it closer then 27-0. Just about any QB could have. I'm talking about before it got out of hand because 99% of the time the game is over if you're down 27 points at ANY point of the game.

Dak is a better regular season QB than Rush but he's historically one of the worst QBs of all time in the playoffs. Do you care more about regular season wins or playoff?

2-5 in the playoffs for his career, 1-3 at home. That's 3 out of 4 games that we should have won but didn't and Dak was bad in all 3. You're supposed to win your home playoff games.
ok Im not in the camp of "lets replace our problemed playoff QB with a worse QB who cant make the same throws"..it's a bad move, draft a QB fine, trade for a proven winner ok..Cooper Rush will be replaced by Trey Lance next year as the backup most likley and will be a PS QB in the NFL..for the rest of your "Dak...whatever" i dont care, I'm not in the Dak war..I'm in the "Cooper Rush is not an NFL QB" camp..and as you saw this offseason EVERY GM in the leagu saw him play and they also knew he wasnt even worth bringing into camp for a backup look...every team, name all the starting QB's in this league and repeat that...
 

CowboyFrog

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Too many Dak homers blinded by him scoring 40 against the Giants in the regular season. I care about playoffs.
lol listen again your Dak phobia is not what I'm talking about..REPLACE DAK i dont care...saying Cooper Rush is anything other than a big downgrade is idiocy...
 

jazzcat22

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So you are attributing win totals to the QB? Or just stating the obvious that the team won the games with Dak playing QB?
I attribute wins and losses to teams. Not to QBs.
However some wins and losses can be credited or blamed on certain players. Because of a play, or plays that stand out. Though if other things would have, or did not occur, then that play may not have either.

my comment was about Rush was 5-1 so he won the games, but yet that post blamed Dak for losses.

Like in the Eagles game when Dak stepped out of bounds, many blame him for that loss because of that play.
But yet no one will blame, say an offsides on the defense after stopping a 4th down play. Allowing the Eagles to score as a reason.
 

Chasing6

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Warning-long post.

Something interesting about these endless debates about Dak makes me wonder how people can use hypocrisy to justify their own take on the QB position. On the one hand, a QB is extremely valuable (hardest and most important position to play on the field), and teams will fall over themselves for even decent QB play. On the other hand, you must acknowledge how much this is a team game and cannot place much blame on the QB in a loss. We do a ton of back and forth on QB production-this stat shows the QB is producing at a high level-this one shows poor aptitude etc. Can QB production be differentiated from their surrounding cast?

This last question is the most important question I can think of in this debate. It’s basically impossible to answer for anyone including all the professionals in NFL front offices. All anyone can really do is see results on the field per play to get an idea of what a QB is doing on each play (what they did well and what they did not).

Do QB’s have the ability to greatly impact the outcomes of games in wins/losses column? Yes, but the outcome of each game are tied to so many variables-so why is it so important to have a great QB?

In my opinion, it starts with not turning the ball over-either by fumbling on the play or throwing an interception. The next component is mental clarity (processing)-the ability to follow scheduled protocol and when to go off-script (and what you do in off-scripted plays). That also ties into the part about not turning the ball over and also when to take calculated risks. Natural talent, instincts, and foundational tendencies (including throwing mechanics) are typically big pieces of great play but are not big separators like the next quality. The composure and temperament of a QB under duress and in difficult situations is the biggest separator to me and the most nebulous.

This last one is very difficult to diagnose. You watch a QB make certain decisions under duress and try to make sense of it. The problem is that every QB will make poor decisions with the ball under duress. The big separator (in the biggest games) is how many big mistakes the QB makes under duress compared to making positive or neutral plays under duress (and making more positive than neutral plays). More games makes it easier to make judgements just because of increased sample size-and the appearance of trends.

What makes an elite QB? How many does the league have right now? Why do you consider them elite and not others?

I believe the league has two elite QBs (Mahomes and Burrow) and Josh Allen depending on the day. Most QB’s have not even been in the league for more than 6 seasons and the jury is still out. I’m of the belief that these elite QB’s can win with a supporting cast that is less talented than the other QB’s. I also believe that many NFL QB’s are only able to go as the surrounding talent goes-that is to say that if a team goes 5-12 or 12-5 with a QB, another QB would likely do the same (within a game or two).

I think fans and media get too caught up in the QB vs QB matchups because of hype and marketing material. To me, most QB’s are of similar ability with regards to actually impacting the win and loss column. How do you feel about that though-do you think there are more large differences with the QB population of the NFL?
Depends on how good your defense, running game and specialty teams are.

If you D only gives up 15 points a game, you have a great Kicker and can run the ball. They can account for a lot.

If your D sucks - Zero.
 

Captain-Crash

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Just a couple days ago I saw a clip from a recent interview with Brady. He was asked about his perception of the current state of QB play. He didn't hesitate and said he was disappointed in the general lack of ability of today's QB to understand and adjust to what they are seeing in the moment.

Talked about coaches sending in plays chosen based on down and distance and how they expect the defense to play the down. Said that that is all fine and good if the defense plays you as expected, but if they don't, as the leader you have to be able to recognize and adjust in real time. Far to many QB's don't seem willing or able to do that and run the called play right into the teeth of the defense.

IMO, that true field general attitude is essential and absolutely can make the difference, winning you some games that might otherwise have been lost.

The play calling has been used as an excuse here. With every play caller the last six years. The play caller can do nothing more than choose what he considers the highest percentage play to beat the defensive alignment the analytics told him he should expect in that down and distance. He can do nothing about it if the defense doesn't play it as expected. That is all on the QB to adjust to.
can he make a video of chokescott.
 

pitt33

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However ya wanna slice it up,
The Hostettlers, Dilfers, Brad Johnsons and Nick Foles Lombardi runs are still the outliers.

The truth of the matter is that the top pedigreed signal callers both getting to AND achieving SB success over their feel good story counterparts is a truth that can't be denied.

Seems as though at CowboysZone it's some close race between the 2 by the vast amount of posts over the years touting to build the team around the lesser QB when nothing could be further from the truth in seeing the bottom line results.

I guess the feeling here for almost 20 years has been to settle for the talent of an UDFA and project/developmental 4th rd QB as being the best we can do and that subconsciously has lowered many fans' standards at the most important position on the field.

Their judgment has been tainted.

Nothing could alter the direction of this team more quickly than acquiring an elite QB.

All the talk around how hard it is to find the right one is a valid and separate discussion altogether.

But that still doesn't change the truth.
Great post.

These project quarterbacks need to stop.

That’s the bottom line.
 

IceStar-D7

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He did not win that SB by himself.

If we said he lost the SB to TB, Does this same theory apply? Or does the no OL excuse come into play?
That's cool. Yet, how are so many saying Dak lost the playoff game then? That's even more bizarre :facepalm: The premise is a bus driving quarterback?. Aren't they all in a way?????
 

Captain-Crash

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Rush is a lifetime backup, but if he's so bad how did he win 5 games? He only proved that just about anybody could have won with our team. The loser Chokescott has never won crap in high school, or college and will never win crap in the NFL. He's a lifetime loser.
 

noshame

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Simplified
Your QB is "clutch " or he isn't.
It's not about gaudy stats, that's easy, a strong cast, and 50% of defenses struggling to put a NFL caliber back 7 on the field.
It's about drive ending fails on 3rd down, or missing the wide open guy for a easy 6 .

Bus drivers make those critical plays more often than not, bad QBs do not.
Great QBs rarely miss.
So please spend the picks and get a QUARTERBACK ending 25 years of fail.
 

Chasing6

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Rush is a lifetime backup, but if he's so bad how did he win 5 games? He only proved that just about anybody could have won with our team. The loser Chokescott has never won crap in high school, or college and will never win crap in the NFL. He's a lifetime loser.
But Trance has potential who barely played in HS or college and basically none in the NFL in 3 years.
 

DeaconMoss

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Did he really? He was 5-1 which was pretty good. He did lose to the Eagles (the eventually NFC Champions) and had a bad game and? As if Dak never has bad games against good teams? He does it ALL the time.
5-1 would translate to the same record ended the season with easily maybe even better
 
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