How Special is Ezekiel?

[Kaiser]

Strawman.

I've never said use Morris as a Zeke replacement.

Yeeeah, that's a blatant lie. You were asked this:

Just curious but what rb would you bring in to replace him?

And ON PAGE 7 OF THIS THREAD you replied:

I don't mean to be glib but almost anyone?

McFadden was basically out of football and ran for 1k yards with our worst passing attack in a decade.

Morris was more efficient in 2017 than Zeke was.

UDFA Phillip Lindsay just had an amazing rookie year in Denver with no passing game to speak of.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/how-special-is-ezekiel.437481/page-7#post-9339286

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Yeeeah, that's a blatant lie. You were asked this:

Just curious but what rb would you bring in to replace him?

And ON PAGE 7 OF THIS THREAD you replied:



https://cowboyszone.com/threads/how-special-is-ezekiel.437481/page-7#post-9339286

I said in this very thread that I supported a committee. That means that you would bring in a few backs to share the load. That means I don't consider Morris a Zeke replacement. Just like I wouldn't consider McFadden or Lindsay a Zeke replacement. I would consider a committee that included Morris as a Zeke replacement.

Why do we need a single RB to carry the ball 25 times a game and produce 1,250?

Id argue that's the exact opposite of what you'd want.

You want a committee of backs who are largely interchange that compete with each other. Throw in a gadget player and that's c ast you can go to war with.

And I said as much here.

Nice try tho.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/how-special-is-ezekiel.437481/page-8

 

[khiladi]

I don't know about normalization? You realize I work in finance. Deal with numbers every single day. Have a masters in this stuff.

We are talking about Zeke's efficiency numbers per carry.

People have argued his per carry numbers are impacted because he runs more against stacked boxes.

What part of Zeke doesn't run against a lot of stacked boxes don't you understand?

What does bring good at statistics have to do with finance? You could be a mortgage broker running numbers around what interest rate you are going to offer me. It doesn’t mean your good at statistics.

The clear fact is the examples of brought clearly demonstrate you know nothing about normalization. That is what I am going by, not your anecdotal information based on you crunching numbers.

Zeke absolutely does run against a lot of stacked boxes. Percentage doesn’t indicate in anyway volume. Throwing percentages around is meaningless when comparing running backs when the volume are that much different.

And further it absolutely would impact YPC, because he’s running a lot more BY VOLUME against them, thus more wear and tear. Like I said, your argument is utterly idiotic, because it’s like claiming Hambrick with his 5 YPC was better then the guy ahead of him on Emmitt Smith.

 

[khiladi]

That take is ridiculous. If Zeke faced stacked boxes 10% of the time but he ran it 500 times a season you'd be blabbing about how he runs against more stacked boxes than anyone.

Using percentages works as long as you aren't counting someone who has a negligible count of carries.

The fact is defenses dont do anything differently for Zeke than they do Derrick Henry for example.

Actually, I’d be blabbing about how he was being run into the ground in that case. So now your saying 150 plus rushes is negligible, meaning close to an extra 10 carries per game in a full sixteen game season, with the examples I provided?

Basically, you were wrong in your first response and trying to argue your way out of that original take. Cute..

 

[khiladi]

Rushing success is often predicated by the number of defenders in the box. According to Next Gen Stats, Elliott faced eight defenders in the box on 24.67 percent of his rush attempts.

No one above him on this list had more than 215 carries.

Considering that Elliott had 304 rushes, the number of stacked boxes he had to face throughout the season was demoralizing. This does explain some of his efficiency woes in 2018, and the hope is that Moore can scheme up some better looks in the run game.

It’s like I’m dealing with third graders in math. Zeke 304 rushes. The next highest that was above him in terms of efficiency was at 215 carries. That’s a whopping 89 more carries. It’s not just the stacked boxes that are volume, it’s the overall work and this was in 15 games. That’s wear and tear overall. And Derrick Henry played a full 16 games at 215 carries
and he wasn’t even a starter his last two years, meaning no wear and tear.

But the sky is not falling in Dallas, after lall, Elliott has managed to excel in another facet of the running game. His ability to break tackles has been apparent ever since he entered the league in 2016, that season he led the league with 57 broken tackles on rushes. He followed with 35 broken tackles in 2017 and 38 in 2018 respectively.

Zeke is breaking tackles bucking the trend of the whole league of RBs. He led the league with a whopping 57 in his first year. This is without even getting into a discussion of him moving forward while going down, where other RBs are stopped dead in their tracks. Zeke constantly turns a 2 yards gain into a 3 or 4 yard, putting the Cowboys in manageable third down situations.

The problem with this article is that they point it at the scheme, when the QB can’t make any of the defenses pay.



https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...ys-ezekiel-elliott-expected-points-added-epa/

 

[JoeKing]

Saquon is loved for his pass catching abilities.

His longest TD from Eli was 15 yards.


Zeke has 70 and 80 yard receiving TDS under his belt.

Yeah but Barkley is in training camp while Zeke has his thumb up his rear in Cabo, being a waste of skin. When you don't even show up, you can't be defended. He's a bum.

 

[khiladi]

It’s also completely idiotic to compare Barkley with Zeke, considering Barkley sees way more soft zone than the Cowboys, because defenses still aren’t going to defend Eli the way they defend Dak. Barkley basically has bigger runs that obfuscate many of his games where he didn’t even break 50 yards rushing, at 7 games. Zeke never got held under 50 except once. Even when you talk about receptions, Zeke had 77 to Barkley’s 91, meaning this discrepancy of about 1 reception per game is not enough to justify the games where Barkley simply wasn’t an impact in the running game.

Eli still commands way more respect than Dak and if Zeke got to see the open space with soft zones teams play the Giants with, he could break off runs like Barkley does, particular in the passing game, with that space to work with. At the same time, this is why his numbers are also that much higher as far as receptions are concerned. Defenses concede the underneath with the Giants.

Dam is constantly facing man on outside and one safety and teams are pushing their defenders closer to the line, meaning they are daring Dak to beat them, while with the Giants they are ceding everything underneath.


https://www.nj.com/giants/2018/10/soft_zone_defense_remains_giants_kryptonite.html

 

[Kaiser]

I said in this very thread that I supported a committee. That means that you would bring in a few backs to share the load. That means I don't consider Morris a Zeke replacement. Just like I wouldn't consider McFadden or Lindsay a Zeke replacement. I would consider a committee that included Morris as a Zeke replacement.

That's completely pathetic, but I should have expected it.

"Sure, I said almost anyone could replace Zeke and I gave examples A, B and C. But totes didn't mean Example B, because that would be stoooopid".

You are complete parody at this point.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I am probably in the minority. But I don't think it's worth signing Zeke to such a big contract. Not that he isn't worth it. But he just isn't a team player. He is in it for the money and nothing more. He's a good player. But he is already slowing down. I think he lost his breakaway speed. How many times has he been caught from behind by a defensive player? If we sign him he will get slower and we won't be playing younger more productive players.

Zeke holding out is the best thing that happened to the Cowboys. It will force their hand to see what Dak can do and if he is worth big money. It also forces the team not to rely on Zeke. He is forced feed the ball all the time. It's time our offense stop running the same ole' boring crap and find ways to be productive on offense.

 

[Floatyworm]

Really hope that the above was therapeutic for you.

No kidding...lost me @ special .....as if this turd is above Joe Randle status right now. Think about Zeke's stupidity rap sheet...and then think about giving this guy 55 million dollars.

....then who would be dumber?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

That's completely pathetic, but I should have expected it.

"Sure, I said almost anyone could replace Zeke and I gave examples A, B and C. But totes didn't mean Example B, because that would be stoooopid".

You are complete parody at this point.

I literally provided you with a quote of mine and a link to said quote of me saying exactly what you said I didn't say.

Is this real life?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

What does bring good at statistics have to do with finance? You could be a mortgage broker running numbers around what interest rate you are going to offer me. It doesn’t mean your good at statistics.

The clear fact is the examples of brought clearly demonstrate you know nothing about normalization. That is what I am going by, not your anecdotal information based on you crunching numbers.

Zeke absolutely does run against a lot of stacked boxes. Percentage doesn’t indicate in anyway volume. Throwing percentages around is meaningless when comparing running backs when the volume are that much different.

And further it absolutely would impact YPC, because he’s running a lot more BY VOLUME against them, thus more wear and tear. Like I said, your argument is utterly idiotic, because it’s like claiming Hambrick with his 5 YPC was better then the guy ahead of him on Emmitt Smith.

The numbers I posted are per carry statistics. I don't think normalization means what you think it does.

And no I'm an investor so I'm very familiar with looking at numbers, finding patterns, understanding opportunity and most importantly building efficient portfolios.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Zeke ran the ball a lot. When he ran the ball on average (remember we care about per carry numbers) he didn't face an abnormally high number of stacked boxes.

If he did you'd have a point. He didn't. You don't.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It’s like I’m dealing with third graders in math. Zeke 304 rushes. The next highest that was above him in terms of efficiency was at 215 carries. That’s a whopping 89 more carries. It’s not just the stacked boxes that are volume, it’s the overall work and this was in 15 games. That’s wear and tear overall. And Derrick Henry played a full 16 games at 215 carries
and he wasn’t even a starter his last two years, meaning no wear and tear.



Zeke is breaking tackles bucking the trend of the whole league of RBs. He led the league with a whopping 57 in his first year. This is without even getting into a discussion of him moving forward while going down, where other RBs are stopped dead in their tracks. Zeke constantly turns a 2 yards gain into a 3 or 4 yard, putting the Cowboys in manageable third down situations.

The problem with this article is that they point it at the scheme, when the QB can’t make any of the defenses pay.



https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...ys-ezekiel-elliott-expected-points-added-epa/

Are you kidding me?

Demoralizing is not a statistic.

By your stupid logic and misunderstanding of how statistical comparisons are drawn was Zeke moralized be ause he got to run against more non stacked boxes? After all those were opportunities for big gains and long touchdowns!

Please stop.

Looking at that article some more they blame poor Cowboys EPA on running into stacked box situations (again we didn't lead the league in this). Even more damming the Cowboys has a team in situational running a tuslly had very strong EPA numbers. As a team higher than Zeke’s EPA numbers in fact.

 

[Jake]

I don't mean to be glib but almost anyone?

McFadden was basically out of football and ran for 1k yards with our worst passing attack in a decade.

Morris was more efficient in 2017 than Zeke was.

UDFA Phillip Lindsay just had an amazing rookie year in Denver with no passing game to speak of.

I don't know every name out there available but I wouldn't be at all worried about our run game if Zeke sat the entire year. I really wouldn't.

I said in this very thread that I supported a committee. That means that you would bring in a few backs to share the load. That means I don't consider Morris a Zeke replacement. Just like I wouldn't consider McFadden or Lindsay a Zeke replacement. I would consider a committee that included Morris as a Zeke replacement.

And I said as much here.

Nice try tho.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/how-special-is-ezekiel.437481/page-8

You're all over the map. First you say "almost anyone" then follow it up with "a committee" so you've covered every possible base.

We could've saved 17 pages if you just posted "Zeke sucks" and been done with it. The thread would have equal value, either way.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You're all over the map. First you say "almost anyone" then follow it up with "a committee" so you've covered every possible base.

We could've saved 17 pages if you just posted "Zeke sucks" and been done with it. The thread would have equal value, either way.

The question was how do we replace Zeke. Who do we go out and grab. My response was go out and grab almost anyone for a committee. RBs, especially those that aren't special, simply are not hard to replace.

We've literally seen that here in Dallas.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

The amazing thing is nobody here has taken the approach of trying to prove why Zeke is special. Instead they simply attack analysis that was calculated for all backs and say "No this doesn't apply to Zeke".... Because... Reasons.

 

[khiladi]

The numbers I posted are per carry statistics. I don't think normalization means what you think it does.

And no I'm an investor so I'm very familiar with looking at numbers, finding patterns, understanding opportunity and most importantly building efficient portfolios.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. Zeke ran the ball a lot. When he ran the ball on average (remember we care about per carry numbers) he didn't face an abnormally high number of stacked boxes.

If he did you'd have a point. He didn't. You don't.

1. And as an investor, none of what you stated necessitate you know statistics.

2. You posted a whole bunch of numbers including efficiency short yardage situations, comparing Zeke with his plus 40 rushes to guys ‘more efficient’ not even breaking 17 rushes.

3. You actually said a lot of things, among them Zeke doesn’t rush MORE against stacked boxes. You said people argue his number per carry are affected because he runs MORE against stacked boxes.

Percentage is not the same as volume. And it absolutely does matter once again, because when you run more, you, for example, get more exhausted, which would impact your efficiency. Otherwise, which you continue to ignore, Hambrick would be worth more than Emmitt because he was more ‘efficient’ than Emmitt as his back-up.

 

[khiladi]

Are you kidding me?

Demoralizing is not a statistic.

By your stupid logic and misunderstanding of how statistical comparisons are drawn was Zeke moralized be ause he got to run against more non stacked boxes? After all those were opportunities for big gains and long touchdowns!

Please stop.

Looking at that article some more they blame poor Cowboys EPA on running into stacked box situations (again we didn't lead the league in this). Even more damming the Cowboys has a team in situational running a tuslly had very strong EPA numbers. As a team higher than Zeke’s EPA numbers in fact.

Who said demoralizing was a statistics? That’s what the article said not I, and it clearly didn’t call it a statistic. Your embarrassing yourself.

The reality is by VOLUME, Zeke ran more than those backs. Higher Percentage is irrelevant. Zeke still ran way MORE against stacked boxes. Keep spinning though..

 

[Kaiser]

I literally provided you with a quote of mine and a link to said quote of me saying exactly what you said I didn't say.

Is this real life?

I literally posted the link to you saying what you claim you didn't say.

Pathetic.

 

[Kaiser]

And no I'm an investor so I'm very familiar with looking at numbers, finding patterns, understanding opportunity and most importantly building efficient portfolios.

So you invest in Cannabis? Suddenly this thread makes sense.