How successful will Zimmer's schemes be with Quinn's players?

[Bobhaze]

First of all, shout out to my buddy @fivetwos for coming up with the line, “One of the rarely mentioned questions about this season is running Zimmers scheme with Quinn’s players.” He made that statement in a thread earlier today when discussing LB DeMarvion Overshown, a speedy but smallish LB out of college who has apparently added some weight this off-season.

That statement led me to write this post as a legitimate question going into this season - How successful Will Mike Zimmer’s defensive schemes be with a lot of players Dan Quinn wanted here?

Most defensive coordinators in the NFL have certain physical traits they favor in players who run their schemes. Jimmy Johnson and Dave Wannstedt back in the 90s loved speed and depth on those early 90s defenses. Wade Phillips, one of the gurus of the 3-4 defense always favored having a road grader NT and a speedy DE/LB (like DeMarcus Ware) who could rush the passer. Dan Quinn‘s schemes liked having a lot of guys who were great pass rushers and a secondary who could handle one on one coverage a lot. He liked tall corners, fast LBs who were almost Safety/LB hybrids that could cover and tackle. Getting turnovers was one of his best features while here.

Now we have the schemes of Mike Zimmer who runs a 4-3 base with a bit less aggression as we saw with Quinn. Zimmer has always preferred bigger DL and LBs who are built to stop the run. In fact one characteristic of Zimmer's defenses in the past is that the role of LB is most important and he prefers big hitters in that regard who can aggressively play sideline to sideline. But his defenses have never been known to force a ton of turnovers, as was the centerpiece of the Quinn years.

So, here are some key questions as we switch to the Zimmer defensive philosophy:

• How Will Zimmer use Micah Parsons? The most gifted player on the defense has disappeared at times as his frame wears down as the season progresses. Will Zim play him less on the DL and in more traditional LB roles? Obviously MP will be used as a pass rusher. But will it be less often?
• Will a bigger Mazi Smith be better suited for a 1 tech role in Zimmer’s plans? And will that make Mazi’s development better suited to his size and skill set?
• Can a 32 year old Eric Kendricks be the monster LB Zimmer prefers to plug the middle or will someone else eventually assume that role?
• Will guys like Osa Odighizhua and Chauncey Goldston be more or less effective as run stuffers in this new scheme?
• Will rookie Marshawn Kneeland be more like a DeMarcus Lawrence type DE who is better against the run?
• Will we see less turnovers in this system?

Obviously all these questions won’t be answered until the regular seasons starts. But it will be very interesting to see how this unfolds.

 

[JoeKing]

Quinn poached a few players. Next year I'm sure he will poach a few more. Meanwhile, Zimmer is being underestimated. I think this defense will be fine.

 

[Havic]

Should be improved in the run defense from the draft and zimmer. Turnovers will more than likely be down, I think sack numbers will be too

 

[Cowboys5217]

Nothing on his resume indicates that he will do anything of note here. We will have a worse defense than with Quinn, but yet Jerry will name him head coach for 2025 and beyond.

Zimmer is what his record says he is - a guy who won't coach your defense or team to a championship.

 

[cristglo]

Im very curious to see how he will use Micha in his Defense I hope that he can keep the Defense fresh down the stretch.

 

[VaqueroTD]

LBs and Safeties will be more disciplined tacklers for sure, but worried about that defensive line and overall limited depth on front seven. Turnovers will definitely be down. Zimm will scream at them until they are blue in the face if they try some of the undisciplined pick attempts or sloppy tackling that seemed to get worse in DQ’s last year. But hopefully he can win them over too. DQ seemed to be a player’s guy.

 

[quickccc]

Mike Zimm's likely starting lineup ?

DE - Parsons
DT - Osa
DT - vet 1 tech (to be named later)
DE - Dlaw

OLB- Marist
MLB - Hendricks
OLB - Overshown

CB - Diggs
CB - Bland
3rd CB - Lewis
SS - Thomas
FS - Hooker

 

[Bobhaze]

LBs and Safeties will be more disciplined tacklers for sure, but worried about that defensive line and overall limited depth on front seven. Turnovers will definitely be down. Zimm will scream at them until they are blue in the face if they try some of the undisciplined pick attempts or sloppy tackling that seemed to get worse in DQ’s last year. But hopefully he can win them over too. DQ seemed to be a player’s guy.

Well said. Zimmer’s style will certainly take less risks which will mean less turnovers. But it should also be better against the run assuming we have enough at LB and DL.

 

[Bobhaze]

Mike Zimm's likely starting lineup ?

DE - Parsons
DT - Osa
DT - vet 1 tech (to be named later)
DE - Dlaw

OLB- Marist
MLB - Hendricks
OLB - Overshown

CB - Diggs
CB - Bland
3rd CB - Lewis
SS - Thomas
FS - Hooker

Can we start 12 players? Jk.

 

[quickccc]

First of all, shout out to my buddy @fivetwos for coming up with the line, “One of the rarely mentioned questions about this season is running Zimmers scheme with Quinn’s players.” He made that statement in a thread earlier today when discussing LB DeMarvion Overshown, a speedy but smallish LB out of college who has apparently added some weight this off-season.

That statement led me to write this post as a legitimate question going into this season - How successful Will Mike Zimmer’s defensive schemes be with a lot of players Dan Quinn wanted here?

Most defensive coordinators in the NFL have certain physical traits they favor in players who run their schemes. Jimmy Johnson and Dave Wannstedt back in the 90s loved speed and depth on those early 90s defenses. Wade Phillips, one of the gurus of the 3-4 defense always favored having a road grader NT and a speedy DE/LB (like DeMarcus Ware) who could rush the passer. Dan Quinn‘s schemes liked having a lot of guys who were great pass rushers and a secondary who could handle one on one coverage a lot. He liked tall corners, fast LBs who were almost Safety/LB hybrids that could cover and tackle. Getting turnovers was one of his best features while here.

Now we have the schemes of Mike Zimmer who runs a 4-3 base with a bit less aggression as we saw with Quinn. Zimmer has always preferred bigger DL and LBs who are built to stop the run. In fact one characteristic of Zimmer's defenses in the past is that the role of LB is most important and he prefers big hitters in that regard who can aggressively play sideline to sideline. But his defenses have never been known to force a ton of turnovers, which was the centerpiece of the Dan Quinn years.

So, here are some key questions as we switch to the Zimmer defensive philosophy:

• How Will Zimmer use Micah Parsons? The most gifted player on the defense has disappeared at times as his frame wears down as the season progresses. Will Zim play him less on the DL and in more traditional LB roles? Obviously MP will be used as a pass rusher. But will it be less often?
• Will a bigger Mazi Smith be better suited for a 1 tech role in Zimmer’s plans? And will that make Mazi’s development better suited to his size and skill set?
• Can a 32 year old Eric Kendricks be the monster LB Zimmer prefers to plug the middle or will someone else eventually assume that role?
• Will guys like Osa Odighizhua and Chauncey Goldston be more or less effective as run stuffers in this new scheme?
• Will rookie Marshawn Kneeland be more like a DeMarcus Lawrence type DE who is better against the run?
• Will we see less turnovers in this system?

Obviously all these questions won’t be answered until the regular seasons starts. But it will be very interesting to see how this unfolds.

I think same way Zimm used All pro DE Danielle Hunter during Vikes days
. Likely right DE .. both guys are similar in size
- Parsons around 255
- Hunter at 263

- You may keep seeing Parsons weight listed at 245, but that seems to be his listed pre-draft weight. he's since added bulk upon
entering NFL to play more on the edge.

- I've been back and forth with this because i'd not fond of Parsons being worn down at pure DE.
I even suggested as maybe a Von Miller & Hasson Reddick like role, where's he's not lined up vs 340 lbs OTs on an every down basis.

- But yet would Off ball LB be a mistake. ?
that's like having TJ Watt off ball and away from the QB and backfield and having him more in coverage than going
at the QB virtually every down.

- Huge key with Parsons playing full time DE, would be mixing his time at DE with another DE.
Williams ? Breeland ? Have to find ways to better preserve him

 

[acr731]

These guys quit on Quinn, they will have no problem quitting on Zimmer.

 

[nate dizzle]

All I remember of Zimmers defense here was it was very conservative and didn't generate turnovers...like ever. Whether that was due to the players or him I don't know.

 

[Carson]

Mike Zimm's likely starting lineup ?

DE - Parsons
DT - Osa
DT - vet 1 tech (to be named later)
DE - Dlaw

OLB- Marist
MLB - Hendricks
OLB - Overshown

CB - Diggs
CB - Bland
3rd CB - Lewis
SS - Thomas
FS - Hooker

Williams is likely your starter at DE on early downs with Micah moving around. Kneeland should get a ton of snaps on run heavy situations.

Clark was named starter at OLB.

Mazi is your starting DT.

Wilson is your starting SS.

 

[Aven8]

Zimm was the HC for Minny for 7 years and got them to the NFC title game in 2018. It’s not like we hired some nobody.

 

[doomsday9084]

Its frequently just a numbers game.

DQ would often leave a 6 man box with Parsons as DE and Bell as LB. That's a small number of small players. Its not setting you up for success in the run game but it certainly is setting you up for success against the pass.

If Zimmer puts more, bigger players in the box . . . that's going to fix the run defense and make the pass defense worse.

What I really want is a DC who coaches the game being played in front of you. If you are getting torched by the run, adjust. If you are getting beat deep, adjust.

Quinn's philosophy wasn't bad. The problem came when other teams had a wrinkle he wasn't prepared for. He really struggled to change things up in game.

From a player standpoint, I think Dallas has an issue at DT and LB. They had an issue at DT and LB under Quinn so that won't be a Quinn vs Zimmer thing as much as it is a Jones thing.

 

[Carson]

Its frequently just a numbers game.

DQ would often leave a 6 man box with Parsons as DE and Bell as LB. That's a small number of small players. Its not setting you up for success in the run game but it certainly is setting you up for success against the pass.

If Zimmer puts more, bigger players in the box . . . that's going to fix the run defense and make the pass defense worse.

What I really want is a DC who coaches the game being played in front of you. If you are getting torched by the run, adjust. If you are getting beat deep, adjust.

Quinn's philosophy wasn't bad. The problem came when other teams had a wrinkle he wasn't prepared for. He really struggled to change things up in game.

From a player standpoint, I think Dallas has an issue at DT and LB. They had an issue at DT and LB under Quinn so that won't be a Quinn vs Zimmer thing as much as it is a Jones thing.

To me LB has upside. Kendricks solid, Overshown has upside, Clark was great against the run and he now slides outside to do this. You also have Micah in sub package.

I really think DT is out main downfall (same as always). Osa usually starts strong. But Mazi is a massive question mark. I see them bringing in a Linval Joseph after week 3 or 4 when we struggle against the run

 

[fivetwos]

Thanks for the acknowledgment Bob.

Logic dictates that some guys that are expected to be solid players may struggle, as well as the opposite.

I wonder about a guy like Bland, who probably isn’t a great cover corner, but put up interception numbers in the Quinn scheme. Maybe Diggs looks more ordinary. Not sure I see Bell excelling in Zims defense. He isn’t the only one…those tweener guys are a concern.

On the flip size maybe this is the right scheme for a guy like Mazi, who many are writing off. Maybe he squeezes something out of Davis the way Marinelli did with Mincey. Dare I say the 7th round NT makes an impact….

 

[CWR]

First of all, shout out to my buddy @fivetwos for coming up with the line, “One of the rarely mentioned questions about this season is running Zimmers scheme with Quinn’s players.” He made that statement in a thread earlier today when discussing LB DeMarvion Overshown, a speedy but smallish LB out of college who has apparently added some weight this off-season.

That statement led me to write this post as a legitimate question going into this season - How successful Will Mike Zimmer’s defensive schemes be with a lot of players Dan Quinn wanted here?

Most defensive coordinators in the NFL have certain physical traits they favor in players who run their schemes. Jimmy Johnson and Dave Wannstedt back in the 90s loved speed and depth on those early 90s defenses. Wade Phillips, one of the gurus of the 3-4 defense always favored having a road grader NT and a speedy DE/LB (like DeMarcus Ware) who could rush the passer. Dan Quinn‘s schemes liked having a lot of guys who were great pass rushers and a secondary who could handle one on one coverage a lot. He liked tall corners, fast LBs who were almost Safety/LB hybrids that could cover and tackle. Getting turnovers was one of his best features while here.

Now we have the schemes of Mike Zimmer who runs a 4-3 base with a bit less aggression as we saw with Quinn. Zimmer has always preferred bigger DL and LBs who are built to stop the run. In fact one characteristic of Zimmer's defenses in the past is that the role of LB is most important and he prefers big hitters in that regard who can aggressively play sideline to sideline. But his defenses have never been known to force a ton of turnovers, which was the centerpiece of the Dan Quinn years.

So, here are some key questions as we switch to the Zimmer defensive philosophy:

• How Will Zimmer use Micah Parsons? The most gifted player on the defense has disappeared at times as his frame wears down as the season progresses. Will Zim play him less on the DL and in more traditional LB roles? Obviously MP will be used as a pass rusher. But will it be less often?
• Will a bigger Mazi Smith be better suited for a 1 tech role in Zimmer’s plans? And will that make Mazi’s development better suited to his size and skill set?
• Can a 32 year old Eric Kendricks be the monster LB Zimmer prefers to plug the middle or will someone else eventually assume that role?
• Will guys like Osa Odighizhua and Chauncey Goldston be more or less effective as run stuffers in this new scheme?
• Will rookie Marshawn Kneeland be more like a DeMarcus Lawrence type DE who is better against the run?
• Will we see less turnovers in this system?

Obviously all these questions won’t be answered until the regular seasons starts. But it will be very interesting to see how this unfolds.

I think we will be ok at LB. DT I'm more concerned about. Mazi has something else going on and I don't know if he's going to be able to get his weight back up in time. The cupboard is pretty bare at the position without a big body.

 

[Creeper]

I think the defense will be all about the DTs. I think DLaw and Sam Williams will be okay but I am not counting on Mazi.

 

[conner01]

Nothing on his resume indicates that he will do anything of note here. We will have a worse defense than with Quinn, but yet Jerry will name him head coach for 2025 and beyond.

Zimmer is what his record says he is - a guy who won't coach your defense or team to a championship.

No DC can coach a team to a championship. It’s a team that wins in today’s game. You have to be good on both sides of the ball