How would you feel about Henry Ruggs at 17?

[visionary]

Frankly, I am thinking we should bring Jones back and then go WR in Rd 1. Use Cooper's money to sign some DL like you suggested.

I know Jones doesn't get interceptions but he has shown he can take a WR out of the game. His advanced stats have him as a Top 10 CB the last two years. If I can get him for like $14MM AAV, I'd do it.

Epenesa doesn't strike me as that terror pass rusher at the NFL level. A few of the scouting guides I read suggested he lacks elite burst or bend around the edge.

we need to build a team

we lack DL, TE, safety

if the DL can pressure consistently and safety is there to put people in the right positions and clean up then Awuzie and Lewis are good enough to start

personally I wouldn’t pay either Cooper or Jones
I wanted to trade Jones at the trade deadline for a rd 2 pick which would look great right now

unfortunately we have a reactive FO not one that has an actual plan

 

[cnuball21]

That's an overstatement. You need more than 2 WRs. If you let Cobb walk, you have two WRs and a bunch of JAGs left. Ruggs would make sense then at 17.

A lot will depend on what they do with Cooper and Cobb in FA.

The other point here is that while defense will have needs, you shouldn't force a pick at 17 just for defense. If WR is the best player on the board at that spot and you can use a WR, you take the WR. You don't take a DE or CB that isn't as highly rated as other players on the board.

That logic is how you end up with Taco Charlton.

A #3 WR on a team built to run for success does nothing to help us get over the hump.

If BJ and Quinn walk, we'll have holes just about everywhere on the defense. Not depth, but actual holes at starting positions.

I’m all about maximizing value in the draft and not picking just for need, but within reason.

 

[cnuball21]

I agree about the holes on the team but if you get into a mindset of drafting for holes on the team then you end up with Taco Charltons and Trysten Hill's.

Every team drafts for need but sometimes you have to look past that and if Zeke is Zeke again then just having Cooper, Gallup, and Ruggs on the field would be so difficult for the defense to match up without giving up a big play downfield or Zeke just running all over you.

Look at it as potentially adding Tyreek Hill to an offense where defenses have to focus on the run. That's the type of speed and talent we're talking about here. Rare.

You end up with Tacos and Hills by poor evaluation, not always just reaching for need. We could’ve made better picks that made more sense.

We can add all the flashy toys we want on offense, but we’ll continue to get killed by playoff caliber OLs with good run game if we don’t address the middle of the defense.

 

[CATCH17]

You end up with Tacos and Hills by poor evaluation, not always just reaching for need. We could’ve made better picks that made more sense.

We can add all the flashy toys we want on offense, but we’ll continue to get killed by playoff caliber OLs with good run game if we don’t address the middle of the defense.

I want a front 7 player but I’m not sure I take Espenesa or Matos over a playmaker on offense.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I'd love him.

I was going to make a thread about this sometime, but WR speed kills in the NFL these days, and it's probably the easiest trait to translate as a rookie. Look at the list of WRs in the 2018 and 2019 drafts who ran sub-4.4:

-Andy Isabella (buried in Arizona)

-Parris Campbell (hurt most of the year)

-Mecole Hardman (20.7 YPC and 6 TDs on 26 catches, made the Pro Bowl as a kick returner)

-DK Metcalf (stud, 900 yards as a rookie)

-Terry McLaurin (stud, 900 yards on a broken offense)

-Darius Slayton (pretty darn good, 48/740/8 as a rookie starter for the Giants)

-DJ Chark (stud)

-Marquez Valdez-Scantling (not good, but he's still a 5th rounder that's starting).

And as an honorable mention, Marquise Brown didn't run at the Combine, but I'll bet my kidney that he is a sub-4.4 player. He looked dangerous when healthy for the Ravens.

Also, just missing the list are DJ Moore with a 4.42 40 and Calvin Ridley with a 4.43.

Anyway, if you count Hollywood as a sub-4.4 guy (there's no way he isn't), that's 9 of those guys total, and I'd say their teams are happy with 7 of those picks.


So speed has had good early returns recently, and Ruggs has it in spades. But the thing that gets me about him is that he's not just a speed merchant, he can actually play ball too. Not a great route runner, but he excels on back shoulder and he blocks shockingly well (watching him, there was times when I asked myself, "is he a better blocker than Cole Kmet?)

Ruggs gets ubiquitous Tyreek Hill comps, and that's probably his best fit, as a 4.2 speed guy who can also take a hit. And with as successful as speed merchants have been recently, I am seeing both a high floor and a high ceiling.

WR isn't a need, but if say Kinlaw, Chaisson and Fulton are gone, and it's down to Ruggs or Delpit, or Ruggs and Gross-Matos? I'm probably going Ruggs.

 

[cnuball21]

I'd love him.

I was going to make a thread about this sometime, but WR speed kills in the NFL these days, and it's probably the easiest trait to translate as a rookie. Look at the list of WRs in the 2018 and 2019 drafts who ran sub-4.4:

-Andy Isabella (buried in Arizona)

-Parris Campbell (hurt most of the year)

-Mecole Hardman (20.7 YPC and 6 TDs on 26 catches, made the Pro Bowl as a kick returner)

-DK Metcalf (stud, 900 yards as a rookie)

-Terry McLaurin (stud, 900 yards on a broken offense)

-Darius Slayton (pretty darn good, 48/740/8 as a rookie starter for the Giants)

-DJ Chark (stud)

-Marquez Valdez-Scantling (not good, but he's still a 5th rounder that's starting).

And as an honorable mention, Marquise Brown didn't run at the Combine, but I'll bet my kidney that he is a sub-4.4 player. He looked dangerous when healthy for the Ravens.

Also, just missing the list are DJ Moore with a 4.42 40 and Calvin Ridley with a 4.43.

Anyway, if you count Hollywood as a sub-4.4 guy (there's no way he isn't), that's 9 of those guys total, and I'd say their teams are happy with 7 of those picks.


So speed has had good early returns recently, and Ruggs has it in spades. But the thing that gets me about him is that he's not just a speed merchant, he can actually play ball too. Not a great route runner, but he excels on back shoulder and he blocks shockingly well (watching him, there was times when I asked myself, "is he a better blocker than Cole Kmet?)

Ruggs gets ubiquitous Tyreek Hill comps, and that's probably his best fit, as a 4.2 speed guy who can also take a hit. And with as successful as speed merchants have been recently, I am seeing both a high floor and a high ceiling.

WR isn't a need, but if say Kinlaw, Chaisson and Fulton are gone, and it's down to Ruggs or Delpit, or Ruggs and Gross-Matos? I'm probably going Ruggs.

And outside of Brown, not a single one of those players was remotely close to being taken in the top 20.

 

[beware_d-ware]

And outside of Brown, not a single one of those players was remotely close to being taken in the top 20.

If anything, it's impressive that they almost all produced despite poor draft pedigree.

If I see a burner later in the draft, I'm willing to gamble on him too, but I think Ruggs is the real deal.

 

[Beaker42]

Yes stock up receivers on a team with Zeke

Pretty sure the only way we were able to move the ball most of our games was through the air. Just sayin’.

 

[stilltheguru]

Pretty sure the only way we were able to move the ball most of our games was through the air. Just sayin’.

And we did it good. So if we resign cooper what does Ruggs improve? Dak gonna throw for 6000?

 

[Oneiros]

WR isn't a need, but if say Kinlaw, Chaisson and Fulton are gone, and it's down to Ruggs or Delpit, or Ruggs and Gross-Matos? I'm probably going Ruggs.

If it's between Ruggs, Delpit or Gross-Matos then give me Ruggs.

 

[cnuball21]

If anything, it's impressive that they almost all produced despite poor draft pedigree.

If I see a burner later in the draft, I'm willing to gamble on him too, but I think Ruggs is the real deal.

100%, me as well...just not in the top 20.

Especially considering this draft is absolutely loaded at WR.

The falloff from WR in round 1 to round 3 is significantly less than the fall of of DT/S from round 1 to 3.

Off the top of my head Id argue there about 10 WRs that are top 75 talents.

 

[morasp]

Last year they were interested in Samuel and I was dead set against it. This year whoever the Deebo Samuel WR is I want him. We need more alpha dogs on this team. I like what the announcers said about him "he looks like a man out there". Just watched this yesterday, someone else likes Ruggs:

 

[Future]

And we did it good. So if we resign cooper what does Ruggs improve? Dak gonna throw for 6000?

Sounds good to me.

How many games were both Cooper and Gallup healthy anyways? 9? Cooper was nicked up all year, Gallup missed 2 games.

Ruggs - or whoever - also makes Zeke more effective. They ran most efficiently out of 11 personnel. The idea that you only need two WRs is wildly outdated. Every good team has at least 3, and they all have a ton of speed. The only plan that teams should be mimicking is the Chiefs, and they are based entirely on speed because of how it opens everything up. You literally can't scheme against it.

 

[Future]

we need to build a team

we lack DL, TE, safety

if the DL can pressure consistently and safety is there to put people in the right positions and clean up then Awuzie and Lewis are good enough to start

personally I wouldn’t pay either Cooper or Jones
I wanted to trade Jones at the trade deadline for a rd 2 pick which would look great right now

unfortunately we have a reactive FO not one that has an actual plan

The way you want to build a team stopped being effective like 15 years ago.

 

[visionary]

The way you want to build a team stopped being effective like 15 years ago.

I guess you will ignore the teams playing in the SB this year, they sing gave good TE, DL, or safety play

 

[Future]

I guess you will ignore the teams playing in the SB this year, they sing gave good TE, DL, or safety play

They also have a bunch of depth at WR.

The Chiefs entire philosophy - including what they do on defense - is based on the talent they have at receiver.

Also, the Cowboys DL is far superior to the Chiefs.

 

[visionary]

They also have a bunch of depth at WR.

The Chiefs entire philosophy - including what they do on defense - is based on the talent they have at receiver.

Also, the Cowboys DL is far superior to the Chiefs.

this post is a great example of ignoring the obvious

of course different teams will be slightly different but Chiefs did that because they have Mahomes at QB, we don’t

the Niners have a lesser though good QB, so they emphasize the run and great TE and DL

Other winning teams like Ravens have all 3 which help complement their good not great QB

the stupidity is trying to build a contender based on the passing game with Dak as your QB while ignoring TE, DL and safety

we tried it this year and failed but I know you will continue to tout this so have at it

Things are often not complicated unless one ignores the obvious as you do

 

[Future]

this post is a great example of ignoring the obvious

of course different teams will be slightly different but Chiefs did that because they have Mahomes at QB, we don’t

the Niners have a lesser though good QB, so they emphasize the run and great TE and DL

Other winning teams like Ravens have all 3 which help complement their good not great QB

the stupidity is trying to build a contender based on the passing game with Dak as your QB while ignoring TE, DL and safety

we tried it this year and failed but I know you will continue to tout this so have at it

Things are often not complicated unless one ignores the obvious as you do

Nope. Chiefs do it b/c they have unreal speed at WR. Mahomes makes them impossible to defend, but the scheme would work with any good QB. https://www.patreon.com/posts/33490968

49ers are a team that exploits numbers and defensive alignments. You can't do that without an effective passing game, and that makes them a pass-first team, like it or not.

Ravens are completely an analytics team. Analytics say that you should pass on first down, and run more play action. They do both of those things. Lamar's skill makes them work.

Cowboys DL is one of the best in the league, safety play is average. Jarwin is good as a receiving TE. It's not 2000, your TE doesn't need to be a great blocker.

You are looking through the lens of an NFL that no longer exists and nitpicking flaws in a cap league in which every team has massive holes, including both the Chiefs and 9ers.

 

[visionary]

Nope. Chiefs do it b/c they have unreal speed at WR. Mahomes makes them impossible to defend, but the scheme would work with any good QB. https://www.patreon.com/posts/33490968

49ers are a team that exploits numbers and defensive alignments. You can't do that without an effective passing game, and that makes them a pass-first team, like it or not.

Ravens are completely an analytics team. Analytics say that you should pass on first down, and run more play action. They do both of those things. Lamar's skill makes them work.

Cowboys DL is one of the best in the league, safety play is average. Jarwin is good as a receiving TE. It's not 2000, your TE doesn't need to be a great blocker.

You are looking through the lens of an NFL that no longer exists and nitpicking flaws in a cap league in which every team has massive holes, including both the Chiefs and 9ers.

“The Niners are a pass-first team”

the team that passed 8 times for 77 yards in the entire NFCCG and ran for 285 yards is a “pass-first team”

 

[Future]

“The Niners are a pass-first team”

the team that passed 8 times for 77 yards in the entire NFCCG and ran for 285 yards is a “pass-first team”

First drive - 3 runs, punt
Second drive - 16 yard pass, run, 30 yard pass

Game changed in the second drive.

Shannahan would throw the ball 80 times a game if that's where the number matchup was.