How would you feel about Henry Ruggs at 17?

[visionary]

First drive - 3 runs, punt
Second drive - 16 yard pass, run, 30 yard pass

Game changed in the second drive.

Shannahan would throw the ball 80 times a game if that's where the number matchup was.

This is what you said:

“The Niners are a pass-first team”

the team that passed 8 times for 77 yards in the entire NFCCG and ran for 285 yards is a “pass-first team”

 

[Future]

This is what you said:

“The Niners are a pass-first team”

the team that passed 8 times for 77 yards in the entire NFCCG and ran for 285 yards is a “pass-first team”

They are. Their run game works b/c teams have to account for the pass.

The box score doesn't tell the story. You can use all the emojis you want.

"Do you want to be able to run the ball? You better be able to pass it...the answer isn't just calling run every play." - Kyle Shanahan. He is about exploiting numbers on the defense, and you do that by being able to throw the ball. That's it.

There is no such thing as a successful NFL offense that prioritizes the run over the pass in today's NFL, and there might never be one again.

 

[J-man]

I'll take Reagor instead

 

[visionary]

They are. Their run game works b/c teams have to account for the pass.

The box score doesn't tell the story. You can use all the emojis you want.

"Do you want to be able to run the ball? You better be able to pass it...the answer isn't just calling run every play." - Kyle Shanahan. He is about exploiting numbers on the defense, and you do that by being able to throw the ball. That's it.

There is no such thing as a successful NFL offense that prioritizes the run over the pass in today's NFL, and there might never be one again.

where does he say “we are a pass-first team”?

Of course you have to “be able to throw the ball” but if you have followed the Shanahans scheme it is built on running the ball. Even in Denver the great John Elway didn’t win a championship until Terrell Davis showed up and then they went back to back

you are always going to nit pick and twist things based on your agenda but you are clearly wrong on multiple points. You’re never gonna admit it cause that’s your MO so I’ll just let our conversation stand as is and let others judge the relative merits

 

[beware_d-ware]

Nope. Chiefs do it b/c they have unreal speed at WR. Mahomes makes them impossible to defend, but the scheme would work with any good QB. https://www.patreon.com/posts/33490968

Liked for this.

The Chiefs have learned to just spam speed at WR, and the Ravens have built their entire offense around speed. I can't find the quote, but their GM said (paraphrasing) "when we broke down the league's best offenses, one of the biggest commonalities was team speed. Everyone across the board was fast." So the Ravens just started drafting for speed on offense.

Their skill position drafts the last two years:

Hayden Hurst (4.67 TE)
Lamar (4.4s at least as a quarterback)
Mark Andrews (4.67 TE)
Hollywood Brown (didn't run the 40 but guaranteed to be sub-4.4.)
Miles Boykin (4.43 WR)
Justice Hill (4.40 RB)

In a league looking more and more like the Big 12 every year, teams are going to the Baylor model of just getting a bunch of track guys and sending them downfield, and it works.

That's why I'm a Ruggs guy. You can't add too much speed on offense these days.

 

[Future]

where does he say “we are a pass-first team”?

Of course you have to “be able to throw the ball” but if you have followed the Shanahans scheme it is built on running the ball. Even in Denver the great John Elway didn’t win a championship until Terrell Davis showed up and then they went back to back

you are always going to nit pick and twist things based on your agenda but you are clearly wrong on multiple points. You’re never gonna admit it cause that’s your MO so I’ll just let our conversation stand as is and let others judge the relative merits

IT IS BUILT ON EXPLOITING MATCHUPS

You do not create that by being run-first.

I'm not wrong, and neither will you. The difference between the two of us is that I know what year it is.

 

[Future]

Liked for this.

The Chiefs have learned to just spam speed at WR, and the Ravens have built their entire offense around speed. I can't find the quote, but their GM said (paraphrasing) "when we broke down the league's best offenses, one of the biggest commonalities was team speed. Everyone across the board was fast." So the Ravens just started drafting for speed on offense.

Their skill position drafts the last two years:

Hayden Hurst (4.67 TE)
Lamar (4.4s at least as a quarterback)
Mark Andrews (4.67 TE)
Hollywood Brown (didn't run the 40 but guaranteed to be sub-4.4.)
Miles Boykin (4.43 WR)
Justice Hill (4.40 RB)

In a league looking more and more like the Big 12 every year, teams are going to the Baylor model of just getting a bunch of track guys and sending them downfield, and it works.

That's why I'm a Ruggs guy. You can't add too much speed on offense these days.

Definitely. And you can go back further too.

The 2011 Saints had Lance Moore, Devery Henderson, Robert Meachem, Darren Sproles, and Jimmy Graham and was one of the best offenses ever, and is precisely what modern offenses are finally trying to copy.

 

[Vegas_Cowboy]

I have zero interest in taking a WR with our 1st pick in a draft that's being called historically deep at WR. I'd use the first 3 rounds on defense and kick the tires in the 4th round.

 

[cnuball21]

Nope. Chiefs do it b/c they have unreal speed at WR. Mahomes makes them impossible to defend, but the scheme would work with any good QB. https://www.patreon.com/posts/33490968

49ers are a team that exploits numbers and defensive alignments. You can't do that without an effective passing game, and that makes them a pass-first team, like it or not.

Ravens are completely an analytics team. Analytics say that you should pass on first down, and run more play action. They do both of those things. Lamar's skill makes them work.

Cowboys DL is one of the best in the league, safety play is average. Jarwin is good as a receiving TE. It's not 2000, your TE doesn't need to be a great blocker.

You are looking through the lens of an NFL that no longer exists and nitpicking flaws in a cap league in which every team has massive holes, including both the Chiefs and 9ers.

I’m sorry...did you just say the Cowboys DL is one of the best in the league and our Safety play is league average?

 

[Future]

I’m sorry...did you just say the Cowboys DL is one of the best in the league and our Safety play is league average?

First in pass-rush win rate. Safety play is average.

Yes. Unequivocally.

 

[CATCH17]

First in pass-rush win rate. Safety play is average.

Yes. Unequivocally.

I agree with this too.

The Dline could get to the QB very quick but the ball just came out even quicker. At least that is how I saw it.

Our fans do not like our safeties.. I get it.. But they are average at worst safeties.

 

[cnuball21]

First in pass-rush win rate. Safety play is average.

Yes. Unequivocally.

Interesting. Can you share your source for this stat? Also, are we completely throwing run defense out the window?

 

[Future]

Interesting. Can you share your source for this stat? Also, are we completely throwing run defense out the window?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...s-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

They were 8th in y/a in run defense, and I don't think DL was why they struggled nearly as much as poor LB play. The run defense problems are largely exaggerated.

 

[Future]

I agree with this too.

The Dline could get to the QB very quick but the ball just came out even quicker. At least that is how I saw it.

Our fans do not like our safeties.. I get it.. But they are average at worst safeties.

They did a horrible job, schematically, of coupling coverage with the passrush. They should have been playing so much more press and aggressive coverages, but they were too worried about giving up big plays. That makes it easy to beat quick pressure.

 

[garyv]

What do you see his overall potential as? Potentially a #1? Tyreek Hill type?

I think if all of the players we like are off the board then he is on my short list of players I would draft.

If we keep Cooper and we get back to running the ball like we used to then the matchups Ruggs would get with the speed he has would put a huge amount of pressure on defenses to defend.

I'm sure Jeudy and Lamb will be long gone by 17.

I question how much of an impact the DE's Espenesa Iowa and the Penn State guy will have at the next level.

I don't think Dallas would take Ruggs. I think they'll let Byron walk and take a corner over a lot of these other guys anyways.

We need Defense more than WR

 

[CATCH17]

We need Defense more than WR

I agree but if I have Tyreek Hill and Taco Charlton talent sitting there i'm going to go with Tyreek Hill.

 

[Flamma]

If the Cowboys were in a position to trade up for Burrow, I'd take a shot, but we're not. These other QBs are all hype. They don't impress me that much. One out of the bunch might actually turn out good, but who?

 

[dallas72]

I would feel sick...we have holes everywhere on defense and WR is one of the strongest units on the teams (if we sign Cooper).

Probably losing our Slot..but draft is soo deep & I like B Perriman as a WR in FA 6'3 4.4 speed watch the Tampa tape this year ..beast

 

[cnuball21]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...s-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

They were 8th in y/a in run defense, and I don't think DL was why they struggled nearly as much as poor LB play. The run defense problems are largely exaggerated.

Nice, thanks for sharing. Def higher than expected.

I still think the run defense is a big problem. I don’t think it’s fair to use YPA as a measuring stick because a lot more goes into that than just DL play. We have pretty good LBs, even without LVE that can help overcome poor DL play.

it’s mostly the DTs for me. In years past we’ve loved going after those “quick twitch” type dudes that are fairly good against the pass, but can’t anchor for crap against the run. They’ll give you a nice splash play here and there, but get killed against quality OLs that have playoff caliber OLs / running games.

 

[cnuball21]

I’d also add WR is also arguably the strongest position in the draft. If you guys thought Gallup sliding to the 3rd was great, just wait til you see who will be available this year in the 3rd.

Part of a great draft is being able to take what the draft gives you in relation to strengths / weaknesses to maximize value.

There’s a great chance we’ll be able to get a 2nd round talent in the 3rd...so factoring in that and the fact it’s a luxury pick makes it really hard for me to get on board with a WR at 17 unless I think he can be a #1. Lamb/Jeudy are the only 2 IMO.