Article: Hungarian Scientists May Have Found A Fifth Force Of Nature

[ABQCOWBOY]

My college roommate was a force of nature after a fifth.

My Wife is a Force Of Nature every time I come home after having drank a fifth.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Gravity is a byproduct of mass. Point blank. If there is no mass, there is no gravity. Electromagnetism be damned.

Electromagnetic fields are a byproduct of a combination of electric charge and current flow.

Electromagnetism has polarity (a north and south). Gravity has no such polarity. No matter where the mass is or it's orientation, the gravitational pull is directly towards it.

Electromagnet fields are comprised of electric fields which are produced by electric charge, and magnetic fields which are produced by electric current. (the movement of that charge) So, when you have a *moving* *electric charge*. You get electromagnetism.

We can produce electromagnetism and even control it. What we cannot do is produce gravity (ie, create mass) or even control that masses gravitational field.

It's so amusing when you see people reject a million scientist and call them stupid without any evidence to support their claim when the scientist have MASSIVE (pun intended) amounts of evidence to support theirs.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I believe String Theory is just incomplete and will obviously have some things about it that will change as our understanding grows. Something has to link the micro world to the macro world. Currently we do not know what that is. (dark energy, dark matter anybody?) Therefore how can you have a complete theory?

 

[Runwildboys]

I believe String Theory is just incomplete and will obviously have some things about it that will change as our understanding grows. Something has to link the micro world to the macro world. Currently we do not know what that is. (dark energy, dark matter anybody?) Therefore how can you have a complete theory?

If this "5th force" truly is a force, and if there are other, as yet undiscovered forces, do you think that may change the calculations enough to account for the discrepancies between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics?

 

[RodeoJake]

If string theory is correct, the biggest issue with proving it is not having the technology to see something so small.

We don't necessarily have to see it to notice its impact.

 

[Runwildboys]

We don't necessarily have to see it to notice its impact.

No, but in a case like this, you either need to be able to make predictions that can't otherwise be made, or physically observe it. So far, they haven't done either. And I don't see what type of predictions could be made to prove planck length size loops of vibrating "strings" or "branes" are responsible for anything.

 

[YosemiteSam]

If this "5th force" truly is a force, and if there are other, as yet undiscovered forces, do you think that may change the calculations enough to account for the discrepancies between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics?

Well, it's like string theory and it's folded dimensions. There was three. Then four, then seven, then nine, then M-Theory has eleven. We have no idea how many dimensions or even fundamental forces there are.

There is information missing that links all of this together. We just don't have it so right now you have these theoretical ideas (theories with no concrete proof as of yet) and they test them with math. If the math works; that isn't proof, but it builds support. In the end we need physical proof that is supported by workable mathematics.

At some point; there will be a break-through that may not answer everything, but will open our understanding and bring us to a new level comprehension the same way Issac Newton did with the discovery of gravity, Albert Eisenstein's relativity (or even his photoelectric effect discovery), Niels Bohr's contribution to the atomic model, Erwin Schrödinger quantum entanglement or Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

I just hope to be around when the next event of that nature happens. I don't even care if what I believe is most likely the truth is true or not. (ie, I do not like the uncertainty principle, but I also cannot deny how useful it has been) I just want to be around and completely wow'ed when it happens!

I just recommend sitting back, enjoy the discussion and draw hope on the possibilities to come!

 

[RodeoJake]

No, but in a case like this, you either need to be able to make predictions that can't otherwise be made, or physically observe it. So far, they haven't done either. And I don't see what type of predictions could be made to prove planck length size loops of vibrating "strings" or "branes" are responsible for anything.

We would have to create metaphysical mathematics to do that.

 

[Runwildboys]

We would have to create metaphysical mathematics to do that.

I'll get right on it!

 

[Boom]

Gravity is a byproduct of mass. Point blank. If there is no mass, there is no gravity. Electromagnetism be damned.

Electromagnetic fields are a byproduct of a combination of electric charge and current flow.

Electromagnetism has polarity (a north and south). Gravity has no such polarity. No matter where the mass is or it's orientation, the gravitational pull is directly towards it.

Electromagnet fields are comprised of electric fields which are produced by electric charge, and magnetic fields which are produced by electric current. (the movement of that charge) So, when you have a *moving* *electric charge*. You get electromagnetism.

As I was reading this, I was unconsciously performing the Right Hand Rule motion with my hand.

 

[Boom]

No matter where the mass is or it's orientation, the gravitational pull is directly towards it.

I'm curious to find out if antimatter is attracted or repulsed by gravity.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I'm curious to find out if antimatter is attracted or repulsed by gravity.

I never really thought about that, but a quick Google search says that there is a consensus among scientists that believe gravity likely does affects matter and antimatter the same way. That said; they also note that while they believe it's likely, there has never been any conclusive evidence observed to actually support it.

I read that CERN attempted to weight anti-hydrogen, but that it's very difficult due to anti-mater and mater annihilate each other. Currently to do tests on anti-meter they use magnets to hold the anti-meter in position so it doesn't touch matter, but the second you turn it off to weight it. It annihilates itself with matter. They tried to see which way it fell by observing the flashes when it annihilates itself, but the tests were inconclusive as they were unable to tell one way or the other. (though they have plans to try again with other methods)

The one thing is clear. Gravity does effect both otherwise, they wouldn't need magnets to keep it in place.


.

 

[Boom]

I never really thought about that, but a quick Google search says that there is a consensus among scientists that believe gravity likely does affects matter and antimatter the same way. That said; they also note that while they believe it's likely, there has never been any conclusive evidence observed to actually support it.

That's sounds like the most probable result, especially since antimatter doesn't mean anti-mass.