I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

[blindzebra]

Wow. But it's ok to use slow motion to see if the ball touched the ground? A tad hypocritical, yes?

Considering they slow it down, zoom in, use multiple angles to review the one thing they don't do is review it at full speed.

 

[KJJ]

The thread title tells you the problem with this fan base. Most see no difference between the Dez and Ertz play when there’s significant differences. Anyone who can’t decipher those two plays is never going to grasp anything about this rule.

 

[aria]

I wonder if the Lions fans have a 100 page thread complaining about how they got robbed by the officials years after it happened?

 

[KJJ]

You do realize that that argument died pages ago, the new argument is only a gather and a lunge does the trick.

I’m not about to waste my time following all this. lol That’s your new argument so you can keep whining over this. A gather and lunge may do the trick for you but that’s not how the rule works.

You are too busy whining about whining that you must have missed the new stance you and the rest of the Blandino club has taken.

You’re doing all the whining while trying to come up with new stances to keep this cry fest going.

 

[blindzebra]

I wonder if the Lions fans have a 100 page thread complaining about how they got robbed by the officials years after it happened?

Well, being that the picked up PI is part of why the Dez catch got overturned, we can share their pain. Actually, they have gotten screwed several times, that bogus facemask before the hail Mary against GB was inexcusable.

 

[aria]

Well, being that the picked up PI is part of why the Dez catch got overturned, we can share their pain. Actually, they have gotten screwed several times, that bogus facemask before the hail Mary against GB was inexcusable.

I’m not jumping on any conspiracy theory that the Dez no catch was some sort of pay back. All I’m saying is there are good calls and bad calls in every game, some are black and white while others are supposed to be left up to the judgement of the officials.

Either way, the NFL needs to fix a LOT including the rules, the officals and the use of instant replay or these inconsistencies will never get better. Almost every team out there has a legitmate grip of how they got screwed bad in at least a few games a year, including playoff games. Why some of this fan base continues to cry over spilled milk from 3 years ago is another story.

 

[percyhoward]

But you admitted that Dez' reach or lunge clearly did not compare to other demonstrative lunges that were shown. This was the first question of mine to you that you avoided answering. 4 times in fact. From that point on you never mentioned the reach/lunge again so I hope you aren't trying to reclaim it now.

When I find myself repeatedly wondering whether someone is confused or making stuff up, the distinction starts to matter less and less.

 

[blindzebra]

When I find myself repeatedly wondering whether someone is confused or making stuff up, the distinction starts to matter less and less.

I'd put money on it being both.

 

[blindzebra]

I’m not jumping on any conspiracy theory that the Dez no catch was some sort of pay back. All I’m saying is there are good calls and bad calls in every game, some are black and white while others are supposed to be left up to the judgement of the officials.

Either way, the NFL needs to fix a LOT including the rules, the officals and the use of instant replay or these inconsistencies will never get better. Almost every team out there has a legitmate grip of how they got screwed bad in at least a few games a year, including playoff games. Why some of this fan base continues to cry over spilled milk from 3 years ago is another story.

I don't see it that way at all, I see it as an exercise in rule discussion, remember I reffed for years and refs talk rules. Besides the season just ended, we are a month away from free agency, so what else is there to talk about?

 

[percyhoward]

He even cuts with his right foot back towards the sideline. Had he just been falling, his momentum would have taken him about yard towards the middle of the field. Good job, certainly looks like a runner when you compare the two.

After all, the only comparison that really means anything is "falling vs. advancing the ball." Whether that be falling vs. lunging, or falling vs. reaching, or falling vs. turning upfield, etc.

It's certainly not about "good enough lunge" vs. "not good enough lunge." That doesn't make sense. They're both lunges!

 

[aria]

I don't see it that way at all, I see it as an exercise in rule discussion, remember I reffed for years and refs talk rules. Besides the season just ended, we are a month away from free agency, so what else is there to talk about?

Well, I’ll give you the last part of your argument It’s just beating a dead horse. While I think you’re genuine about talking rules, it inevitably and largely turns into a cry, moan and conspiracy thread every time.

If you want to talk rules, I’d be more interested in discussing and hearing your thoughts about the current rules. I’d like to hear what you think needs to change and how.

 

[blindzebra]

Well, I’ll give you the last part of your argument It’s just beating a dead horse. While I think you’re genuine about talking rules, it inevitably and largely turns into a cry, moan and conspiracy thread every time.

If you want to talk rules, I’d be more interested in discussing and hearing your thoughts about the current rules. I’d like to hear what you think needs to change and how.

Two things need to happen in NFL officiating.
They need to cut back and simplify things, replay needs to either expand or go away completely.
The NFL needs to have developmental leagues like the NBA and MLB, this gives officials the ability to work games year around. They can read rules and watch video all day long but nothing makes you better than working games. Not only will this bring new blood into the ranks, but it will allow full time officials.

 

[aria]

Two things need to happen in NFL officiating.
They need to cut back and simplify things, replay needs to either expand or go away completely.
The NFL needs to have developmental leagues like the NBA and MLB, this gives officials the ability to work games year around. They can read rules and watch video all day long but nothing makes you better than working games. Not only will this bring new blood into the ranks, but it will allow full time officials.

Agreed but that’s just the tip of the iceberg IMO. I definitely think replay needs to be expanded. I don’t care if each game takes an extra 15-20 minutes, I’d rather see the right call. More often than not, those “judgement” calls (ie PI) determine the outcome of a game. There’s way too much much hard work, money, careers and jobs on the line for them to screw that up. It’s also the most costly penalty there is yet it’s usually left to their judgement and is a very grey area.

I also think they need to lighten up on protecting the QB’s so much. Hell, I saw Bosa make a text book tackle on a QB that looked violent because he buried his facemask in his numbers and wrapped up with force. As a result, both RGIII’s feet came off the ground and they threw the flag. That was also the only game Cleveland won that year.

Obviously what determines a catch needs to be cleared up as well.

 

[blindzebra]

Agreed but that’s just the tip of the iceberg IMO. I definitely think replay needs to be expanded. I don’t care if each game takes an extra 15-20 minutes, I’d rather see the right call. More often than not, those “judgement” calls (ie PI) determine the outcome of a game. There’s way too much much hard work, money, careers and jobs on the line for them to screw that up. It’s also the most costly penalty there is yet it’s usually left to their judgement and is a very grey area.

I also think they need to lighten up on protecting the QB’s so much. Hell, I saw Bosa make a text book tackle on a QB that looked violent because he buried his facemask in his numbers and wrapped up with force. As a result, both RGIII’s feet came off the ground and they threw the flag. That was also the only game Cleveland won that year.

Obviously what determines a catch needs to be cleared up as well.

The main problem I have with replay is the affect it has on the on field officials, they seem to have a bit of an I don't have to call it because replay can fix it. That is fine and dandy if coaches have unlimited challenges, but how many times have you seen coaches having to use all their challenges because the officials continually missed calls. The other problem is time. The networks have turned every review into a commercial fest, and what should take a minute or two takes six or seven minutes.

 

[Tabascocat]

Can we get another 100-page "catch" thread just before camp please? It will complete my Summer

 

[khiladi]

After all, the only comparison that really means anything is "falling vs. advancing the ball." Whether that be falling vs. lunging, or falling vs. reaching, or falling vs. turning upfield, etc.

It's certainly not about "good enough lunge" vs. "not good enough lunge." That doesn't make sense. They're both lunges!

Exactly and the reason reaching is there is because your advancing the ball anyways, irrespective of whether one takes steps or not. The ball is placed where the ball is when the knee hits for example.

Also, an attempted reach is a football move, because the whole point of football is to score points by crossing the plane, stepping over the plane is incidental in this regard. A QB just has to reach over the plane, of he sneaks at the goal-line and it’s irrelevant where his feet are. So basically as soon as a WR catches it next to the goal line and has both feet down and tries to reach to cross the pane, he’s a runner just like a RB who gets stood up at the goal-line but puts his arm across the plane.

Dez has THREE steps, one at the five, the other at the four, the third at the 2.5 which leads to a lunge of over two yards where he even reaches more.

And this would be instant replay from different angles, and slow motion..

 

[KJJ]

Dez has THREE steps, one at the five, the other at the four, the third at the 2.5 which leads to a lunge of over two yards where he even reaches more.

And this would be instant replay from different angles, and slow motion..

By the time Dez gathered the ball in and had clear possession of it his momentum was clearly taking him to the ground. By the time he had possession of the ball he took one step as he was falling to the ground and his left foot on the second attempted step never even got firmly planted on the ground. He ended up pushing off on his toes with his left foot as he was parallel to the ground trying to reach the endzone. Where’s the third step? His left foot landing on the ground after making the catch wasn’t a step. That last push off on his toes wasn’t a step. Besides steps don’t matter when the receivers momentum is taking them to the ground they still have to complete the process.

 

[KJJ]

Dez has THREE steps, one at the five, the other at the four, the third at the 2.5 which leads to a lunge of over two yards where he even reaches more.

And this would be instant replay from different angles, and slow motion..

His left foot landing at the 5 yard line wasn’t a step. He didn’t complete a step until his right foot came over and landed at the 4 yard line. That was the only step he took and it was a stumbling step as his momentum with taking him to the ground. His left foot/toes jamming into the turf at around the 3 yard line certainly wasn’t a step. He never even had his that foot planted. At the last second he pushed off with his toes while he was parallel to the ground. Again steps don’t matter when a receiver is going to the ground.

 

[blindzebra]

He had control just before his right foot landed with his left foot still on the ground, that makes left foot, right foot, left foot.

 

[blindzebra]

Another thing these momentum to the ground people need to look at is what happens to Shields. As they jumped their bodies are parallel to the side line with Shield slightly in front. as they land Shields falls in a straight line while Dez goes from several feet outside the yard marks but lands inside the one yard line has mark. Both landed and turned, but only Dez moved closer to the side line. If he is falling based on just momentum why did his fall take a drastic turn?