I don't like our draft so far

[CowboyChris]

37(212) Cowboys (Compensatory Selection) Frazier, Kavon SS 6'0" 217 Central Michigan 5.3
41(216) Cowboys (Compensatory Selection) Jackson, Darius RB 6'0" 221 Eastern Michigan 4.9
42(217) Cowboys (Compensatory Selection) Gathers, Rico TE 6'8" 275 Baylor --

CaN someone explain why the 2nd RB ?? about same size as EE.
I laughed at TE, but he is a big big dude lol should be able to block.
And a SS ! 6 ft not bad .

What happened to the 5th and 7th round picks? one was for CM that we got from seattle?
I think that might be where the 5th went, what a waste that was.

that 5th was for Brice Butler the WR from the Raiders

 

[DandyDon52]

Holy cow...you can't be this dense.


It's simple. Try and keep up.

I am not saying for the defense to score.... It's not like our offense wasn't scoring(pre injuries). You use an example if 0-0....how often that happens?

The winner if the game is the one that scored more...yes...and that comes two ways.... Stop the other team from scoring a lot...

Great offenses with crappy defenses Lose a lot of 35-31 games.....

It's being on the right side of scoring differential.

Show me the last team that was scoring champion in the league and won a Superbowl?

Defense stops the other team from scoring. Stop the other team from scoring and you don't need to score a ton of points to win.

See Denver. Their defense stopped Carolina from scoring to its average. The team had average offensive play and they win.

Seahawks did the same..

One more time... A good defense stops the other team from scoring. Just see the saints....aming the best in offense and scoring yet they were bad because couldn't stop anybody...

Not having a good defense means your offense is sitting on the sideline watching...because your defense can't get off the field.

It means your team has to go 80 yards most often to score instead of getting short field.

It's not being brainwashed.....its the fact. I don't say it. Championships teams prove it. Dispute that?

the saints team you reference was about the worst defense in nfl that year, last year dallas wasnt bad,
avg 17 points a game avg.
you just need a avg defense if you have a very good offense.
NE won the SB and they had a avg defense,
both seattle and denver had poor offenses, and very good defense,
There are a lot of variables.

 

[DandyDon52]

that 5th was for Brice Butler the WR from the Raiders

Ok that isnt too bad if he plays with us this year.
Maybe the 7th was for CM?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Build the defense, like using our second, third and fourth on defense? Seems that your issue is Zeke vs Ramsey

Several reasons I am not fully happy with that.

Our draft history in rounds 2-7 has been dismal.

Our draft history on first round picks is very good.

I would have rather taken Ramsey, alight trade up to take ogbah and still take a DT in the 3rd.

Our history of the past 12 2nd round picks has been high risk high reward with only Lawrence and Lee as players of any type. Take a solid player as opposed to hit it out of the ball park. Lee has been 50/50 having been injured half the time and lawrance is now suspended.

The lower the round picks are less likely to succeed.... That's why they drop often. Invest high.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

the saints team you reference was about the worst defense in nfl that year, last year dallas wasnt bad,
avg 17 points a game avg.
you just need a avg defense if you have a very good offense.
NE won the SB and they had a avg defense,
both seattle and denver had poor offenses, and very good defense,
There are a lot of variables.

There are a lot of examples.... Giants beat the ball time scoring team...held them to 14...scored 17. They did it twice.

Saints won by holding Manning and his offense in check. Steelers beat a very good Arizona offense by holding them below their average.

NE won by investing on defense....they had a good offense yet they couldn't get back. Their defense was above average. Not elite

I mentioned the saints because they are the most obvious...but there are many more.

To your point...there are many ways but better defense is always. Part of it. Our defense even last year...sucked...below average. Over rated.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

The only thing that bothers me about this draft is Jerry's lamenting over Lynch. Dallas should have traded down, drafted Lynch, and then drafted their board including a RB.

I believe Elliot is going to be a huge factor this fall but no one else (rookies) will make an impact. A successful season depends on Tony and the offense.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Several reasons I am not fully happy with that.

Our draft history in rounds 2-7 has been dismal.

Our draft history on first round picks is very good.

I would have rather taken Ramsey, alight trade up to take ogbah and still take a DT in the 3rd.

Our history of the past 12 2nd round picks has been high risk high reward with only Lawrence and Lee as players of any type. Take a solid player as opposed to hit it out of the ball park. Lee has been 50/50 having been injured half the time and lawrance is now suspended.

The lower the round picks are less likely to succeed.... That's why they drop often. Invest high.

I'll just repeat what they said about Ramsey during the draft. It's not an accident that he had 3 ints in his career and it isn't because teams avoided him. He has poor ball skills, whether it's him not turning around to find the ball or just an inability to catch the ball, it's no accident that he has not been strong in that area. In the NFL, if QBs know you aren't a threat to intercept a pass, they will pick on you. Look at our own Orlando Scandrick, he's a good CB, but since he has no ball skills, QBs aren't afraid to throw his way. That last play against GB in the playoff game is a perfect example, in that he never turned around to play the ball and despite tight coverage gave up the game winning first down catch.

As far as Dodd goes, I would have been fine taking him at #34, but you'll be hard pressed to find a DE who is a 10+ sack guy who tested as poorly as him in his athletic drills.

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/7142/

He ran a 40 that would be considered good for a 3T, which is not really something we need more of.

 

[DC Cowboy]

Like the first 2 picks just fine. It's the 3rd rounder that has me scratching my head. Jason Hargrave or even Jonathan Bullard would have been more explosive, more powerful AND more versatile picks.

I would have taken Hargrave

 

[CATCH17]

I don't like the draft so far. yes I think Zeke Elliott is a going to be a good player, but what's the difference between Morris/McFaddena and Zeke? vs. Ramsey and Carr. Instead of Ramsey, Jones, Scandrick DB backfield, we have Carr, Scandrick and Jones.....



Offense gets you to the playoffs. defense wins championships.



take ramsey and one of the DEs or DTs....then we can start to talk a championship team...



and once again....2nd round and huge risk/reward and it hasn't worked out over the past 12 years......

I'm fine with our draft but we have GOT to stop getting cute with that 2nd rounder.




Taking injured guys, addicts, and backup TE's has to stop. We need people on our team that can play NOW.

 

[DandyDon52]

There are a lot of examples.... Giants beat the ball time scoring team...held them to 14...scored 17. They did it twice.

Saints won by holding Manning and his offense in check. Steelers beat a very good Arizona offense by holding them below their average.

NE won by investing on defense....they had a good offense yet they couldn't get back. Their defense was above average. Not elite

I mentioned the saints because they are the most obvious...but there are many more.

To your point...there are many ways but better defense is always. Part of it. Our defense even last year...sucked...below average. Over rated.

so do you think it is just the players or marinelli's outdated defense??
If say we hired the Carolina DC, right now would our defense get better just due to that??

I think part of the problem is marinelli.
So no matter who they get for the defense, their will still be 4th qtr letdowns.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Counter what? Your complete bull about what was on those clips you youtubed? Give me a break ..... you have no idea what the assignments were or what pathways were run. You are an armchair guy who looks at youtube videos, calls it tape, and acts like a draft guru.

Jaylon Smith was a unanimous choice as a top 3 player before his injury, you are making yourself look even dumber by trying to argue that point.

Like Jerry Jones lipsmacking dumb.

But please continue ........ its hilarious.

Unfortunately these fan forums on the internet are full of people who watch youtube videos and try and convince people that they watch tape on a player and that they're some how really smart when it comes to player scouting.

Yet none of them is working at the NFL level with all this supposed ability to scout. It's really a mystery. lol

 

[TellerMorrow34]

If Romo goes down seasons over. Same as it ever was.

I still don't understand how so many people seem to miss this fact.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Easily countered: If points win championships, then stopping the opposing team from scoring is a winning formula.

This wasn't hard to point out the flaw in your argument.

True. I feel that.

How many defenses in the history of the league have won championships winning games 13-10 on a regular basis?

In my life time (36 years) I can think of only 2 or 3 that could realistically be relied upon to do that on a regular basis. And when I say relied upon I don't mean they actually went out and did it most weeks for the years they won but they're the 2-3 in my lifetime that if we had to do that on a weekly basis I'd have faith they could do it.

The 1985 Bears
The 2000 Ravens
The 2002 Bucs

That's it.

Now that doesn't mean there haven't been other great defenses in my lifetime, cause there absolutely has, but no others that I'd say you're going to win games 13-10 on a regular basis with. (Note that 13-10 is just what I'm using in general. It could be 10-7, 14-13, 17-14 etc. Just anything that is pretty much considered very low scoring.

This idea that one unit of football is the formula to winning on a regular basis, especially championships, is just silly. Football is the ultimate team sport for a reason. It takes all the units to win on a consistent basis.


For those who believe Defense wins championships are you telling me you're putting your money on Denver repeating this year? Do you feel comfortable putting your cash down that their defense is just going to carry whoever to a title? I highly doubt you are. I know I sure as heck wouldn't be.

 

[DandyDon52]

Unfortunately these fan forums on the internet are full of people who watch youtube videos and try and convince people that they watch tape on a player and that they're some how really smart when it comes to player scouting.

Yet none of them is working at the NFL level with all this supposed ability to scout. It's really a mystery. lol

you have to be a ex player or coach to get hired as a scout, no matter how good you might be at it
they would not hire you.
Thats why they call it the boys club.
That is also why they draft so many busts , and a guy like romo goes undrafted.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

you have to be a ex player or coach to get hired as a scout, no matter how good you might be at it
they would not hire you.
Thats why they call it the boys club.
That is also why they draft so many busts , and a guy like romo goes undrafted.

Okay.

 

[jnday]

Several reasons I am not fully happy with that.

Our draft history in rounds 2-7 has been dismal.

Our draft history on first round picks is very good.

I would have rather taken Ramsey, alight trade up to take ogbah and still take a DT in the 3rd.

Our history of the past 12 2nd round picks has been high risk high reward with only Lawrence and Lee as players of any type. Take a solid player as opposed to hit it out of the ball park. Lee has been 50/50 having been injured half the time and lawrance is now suspended.

The lower the round picks are less likely to succeed.... That's why they drop often. Invest high.

There was a lack of elite defenders in this draft. All of them had concerns.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

so do you think it is just the players or marinelli's outdated defense??
If say we hired the Carolina DC, right now would our defense get better just due to that??

I think part of the problem is marinelli.
So no matter who they get for the defense, their will still be 4th qtr letdowns.

I don't deny that neither. Having better talent helps.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

True. I feel that.

How many defenses in the history of the league have won championships winning games 13-10 on a regular basis?

In my life time (36 years) I can think of only 2 or 3 that could realistically be relied upon to do that on a regular basis. And when I say relied upon I don't mean they actually went out and did it most weeks for the years they won but they're the 2-3 in my lifetime that if we had to do that on a weekly basis I'd have faith they could do it.

The 1985 Bears
The 2000 Ravens
The 2002 Bucs

That's it.

Now that doesn't mean there haven't been other great defenses in my lifetime, cause there absolutely has, but no others that I'd say you're going to win games 13-10 on a regular basis with. (Note that 13-10 is just what I'm using in general. It could be 10-7, 14-13, 17-14 etc. Just anything that is pretty much considered very low scoring.

This idea that one unit of football is the formula to winning on a regular basis, especially championships, is just silly. Football is the ultimate team sport for a reason. It takes all the units to win on a consistent basis.


For those who believe Defense wins championships are you telling me you're putting your money on Denver repeating this year? Do you feel comfortable putting your cash down that their defense is just going to carry whoever to a title? I highly doubt you are. I know I sure as heck wouldn't be.

No one denies you need all phases of the game to win. To be inept in one side you have to be outstanding, historically outstanding to win. So don't take the debate as we don't need offense at all.

But historically speaking outstanding defenses to your point have won championships with inept offenses.

Outstanding offenses have not win even with average defenses. Patriots, Minn are two great examples.

You need defense. You need above average defense.

With that said repeating as champions is difficult. But I bet you Denver may get the opportunity. Where as Cleveland or jags or Miami won't. All will probably have pretty crappy offenses. Houston had inept offense but their defense was above average and they made it to the playoffs.

I just don't think going from Morris/McFadden to Zeke is a Superbowl formula. Our defense needs to improve