I don't understand why so many on here want to draft a CB

[Zekeats]

Name calling is stupid, if there were no rankings, there would be no rounds in the draft or ways to differentiate players in terms of talent and ability.

It is pretty universal that Telvin is a 2-3 round prospect, it does not matter if he is better or worse than the projection in actuality, this is where he is projected to go regardless if you like it or not.

You can do your own research, it is not very hard, you will find his projection and a long list of players that are projected to go before him accordingly.

Again, I like the player but only at the right value and round.

Name calling is stupid, if there were no rankings, there would be no rounds in the draft or ways to differentiate players in terms of talent and ability.

It is pretty universal that Telvin is a 2-3 round prospect, it does not matter if he is better or worse than the projection in actuality, this is where he is projected to go regardless if you like it or not.
Ok, so Travis Frederick was supposedly a 3-4th rounder by the so called projections.

You can do your own research, it is not very hard, you will find his projection and a long list of players that are projected to go before him accordingly.
So Clive Walford is ranked ahead of him. So that means that Clive should be drafted before him, right?

Again, I like the player but only at the right value and round.

So then Travis Frederick was drafted way too early because all of the projections from all of the experts of cbs, espy, and miami mikes mock draft say so......LOL, what a joke

 

[Nightman]

The best way to improve the secondary is to improve the pass rush.
And Coleman is not a first rounder. He is a late second rounder that will get snatched up in the early second when the run on running backs get picked.

People say that a lot, but there are good CBs out there. We just haven't been good at finding them, besides OScan.

If we can get a starting CB at 27, I'd be fine with it. If we get a starting RB that would be fine as well.

 

[theogt]

Despite the hype, that is not that much difference in Gordon/Coleman than in some of the other RBs in this draft. Gurley is the only clear cut wow RB.

Coleman/Gordon have a lot of similarities to McFadden; although, McFadden probably still wins a foot race with them.

Completely disagree. There's a HUGE drop off from Gordon/Gurley to the rest of the pack. I honestly don't think anyone out of the "rest of the pack" will end up successful RBs long term. None of them are complete backs. Coleman is a home run hitter, but not a guy that's going to get dirty yards like Murray.

 

[Zekeats]

The draft isn't Wednesday, just so you know.

I get it you are expecting Coleman to run a 4.3 , but how does that vindicate everything you have said? He is expected to be fast, that doesnt change the fact that unless someone loves him he will be a 2nd-3rd round pick.

We will see. I bet $ he is gone by New Englands pick.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Name calling is stupid, if there were no rankings, there would be no rounds in the draft or ways to differentiate players in terms of talent and ability.

It is pretty universal that Telvin is a 2-3 round prospect, it does not matter if he is better or worse than the projection in actuality, this is where he is projected to go regardless if you like it or not.
Ok, so Travis Frederick was supposedly a 3-4th rounder by the so called projections.

You can do your own research, it is not very hard, you will find his projection and a long list of players that are projected to go before him accordingly.
So Clive Walford is ranked ahead of him. So that means that Clive should be drafted before him, right?

Again, I like the player but only at the right value and round.

So then Travis Frederick was drafted way too early because all of the projections from all of the experts of cbs, espy, and miami mikes mock draft say so......LOL, what a joke

Travis Frederick has nothing to do with Telvin Coleman.

We are talking about Telvin Coleman and his projection in this draft, NOT if Coleman can outplay his projection, this is a simple distinction that you have failed to grasp.

Coleman could turn out to be a much better or worse player relative to his projection both of which can not be known until he actually plays in the NFL.

Until this point, we only have evaluation and projection, that is what we are talking about. We are talking about potential not actualized potential beyond or below projection.

Time will tell in short order where Telvin goes in the draft.

 

[Zekeats]

Travis Frederick has nothing to do with Telvin Coleman.

We are talking about Telvin Coleman and his projection in this draft, NOT if Coleman can outplay his projection, this is a simple distinction that you have failed to grasp.

Coleman could turn out to be a much better or worse player relative to his projection both of which can not be known until he actually plays in the NFL.

Until this point, we only have evaluation and projection, that is what we are talking about. We are talking about potential not actualized potential beyond or below projection.

Time will tell in short order where Telvin goes in the draft.

Ok, so my evaluation is a top 15-20 player in the draft. Just as the Cowboys evaluation of Frederick was a top 31 player in the draft. So maybe your evaluation has Coleman as the 60th best player in the draft. SO GIVE ME 59 PLAYERS WHO YOU ARE DRAFTING BEFORE TEVIN!

 

[Rogerthat12]

Ok, so my evaluation is a top 15-20 player in the draft. Just as the Cowboys evaluation of Frederick was a top 31 player in the draft. So maybe your evaluation has Coleman as the 60th best player in the draft. SO GIVE ME 59 PLAYERS WHO YOU ARE DRAFTING BEFORE TEVIN!

Yawn.

You are the only person known projecting Coleman as a top 15-20 prospect both nationally and on this board from what I can tell.

You are arguing from your opinion, you are not a professional evaluator, scout or coach.

This is fine but you have little to ground your evaluation except for an untrained eye and personal opinion.

You have a right to your opinion but until Coleman plays in the NFL, that is all you have is your opinion.

Coleman has talent and ability but not to the extent that you are projecting and I do concur with the other professionals based upon what I have seen on Coleman.

It is possible Coleman could outplay his projection but it is also possible he could underperform, we will only know when we see him play in the NFL.

Players in the draft can outperform or underperform based on their projection, this does not undermine the process and projection it just means some players seize the opportunity or fail to deliver on the next level.

Some actualize the potential, others do not. We have no way of knowing, so you evaluate what you have seen and what you do know about a prospect.

 

[locked&loaded]

Ok, so my evaluation is a top 15-20 player in the draft. Just as the Cowboys evaluation of Frederick was a top 31 player in the draft. So maybe your evaluation has Coleman as the 60th best player in the draft. SO GIVE ME 59 PLAYERS WHO YOU ARE DRAFTING BEFORE TEVIN!

Dude, relax. Nobody is going to type out 59 players to appease you. He told you to do research.

tevin coleman was ranked...

56-draftcountdown.com
62-cbssports.com

etc...

 

[Zekeats]

Yawn.

You are the only person known projecting Coleman as a top 15-20 prospect both nationally and on this board from what I can tell.

Yeah, me and the guy who pushed the Bears to draft Matt Forte a top 5 running back in the league the past 7 years.

You are arguing from your opinion, you are not a professional evaluator, scout or coach.

Neither are you or all the WRITERS who make up all their own MAKEUP rankings.

This is fine but you have little to ground your evaluation except for an untrained eye and personal opinion.

Actually I have good ground. Said 4 years ago that Murray was the best back in the draft......and I stood correct.

You have a right to your opinion but until Coleman plays in the NFL, that is all you have is your opinion.

Exactly, same can be said for any and all who make up their draft board.

Coleman has talent and ability but not to the extent that you are projecting and I do concur with the other professionals based upon what I have seen on Coleman.

Again, name me 60 players in the draft you would take before Coleman......heck, I know you can't even name me 30.....and you still haven't even tried to.

It is possible Coleman could outplay his projection but it is also possible he could underperform, we will only know when we see him play in the NFL.

Thanks for the common sense.

Players in the draft can outperform or underperform based on their projection, this does not undermine the process and projection it just means some players seize the opportunity or fail to deliver on the next level.

Again thanks! Don't know what I would do without you.

Some actualize the potential, others do not. We have no way of knowing, so you evaluate what you have seen and what you do know about a prospect.

I am projecting and not afraid to say I see talent when I do. Unlike most, yourself surely included, I don't just go by a couple of draft website rankings which come from none other than a sports writer, not a talent evaluator. Don't let me stop you from every writer and "talent evaluator" telling you that Winston is the number one player in the draft and Mariota is number two. Stick with that and tell me how that turns out for ya!

 

[Rogerthat12]

Incorrect, many of the scouts and evaluators indeed are professionals and tirelessly look at hours and hours of footage of each given prospect, while you are at home eating chips and salsa.

Many also attend their games, pro days and combine and have been trained what to look for relative to position and traits.

You disrespect their profession because they disagree with your misinformed projection of Coleman.

The distinction between us is that I respect scouts and evaluators work and I am informed of their critical analysis, they are not always correct but relative to the amount of players drafted each year, they are pretty good overall.

You do not have to accept their perspective but if you see a consensus, then you best check your presuppositions at the door!

However, I also study each prospect extensively as possible to form my own perspective after gathering all the known information on a prospect, the difference is my opinion is informed.

I employ critical analysis to all the information including the professionals, then form a grounded perspective based on the evidence given.

Man love in the draft will lead to poor decision making, for every Travis Frederick, I can give you Quincy Carter and a million others.

Man love would have got Jerry Manziel over Martin last year.

You apparently have a man crush on Coleman as a prospect, that is fine, but that will not change his actual projection in this years draft.

Further, since I actually like Coleman as a prospect, the entire exchange is unnecessary, we simply disagree on his projection, not that the player has talent and ability.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

You say he is flying up boards and rankings. Show us any board that has him in the 15-20 range. THere are numerous ones that have him in the 50's and higher. If you are the one going against the grain, it is up to you to provide the proof.

 

[Kaiser]

I'll take a shot at the original question, why would the Cowboys draft a CB in the first? Because it would be BPA at a critical position and give the team time to develop the player over a year or so to produce a quality starter.

Running backs can be drafted in later rounds and are hit and miss to scout irregardless. In 2013 Dallas needed a backup RB that could spell the starter, handle blocking assignments and play Special Teams. There were plenty of players that fit that bill, so they could wait and got that player with only the investment of a 5th round pick in Randle. For reference, these are the RBs drafted before Randle in 2013:

2 62 Seattle Seahawks Christine Michael RB Texas A&M SEC
2 61 Green Bay Packers Eddie Lacy† RB Alabama SEC
2 58 Denver Broncos Montee Ball RB Wisconsin Big Ten
2 48 Pittsburgh Steelers Le'Veon Bell† RB Michigan State Big Ten
2 37 Cincinnati Bengals Giovani Bernard RB North Carolina ACC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NFL_draft#cite_note-35
3* 96 Kansas City Chiefs Knile Davis RB Arkansas SEC
4* 131 San Francisco 49ers Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina SEC
4 125 Green Bay Packers Johnathan Franklin RB UCLA Pac-12
5 164 Miami Dolphins Mike Gillislee RB Florida SEC
5 160 St. Louis Rams Zac Stacy RB Vanderbilt SEC
5 154 Washington Commanders Chris Thompson RB Florida State ACC


Also look at DeMarco Murray in 2011, who we got in the third round. These are the RBs drafted before DeMarco that year:


2 38 Arizona Cardinals Ryan Williams RB Virginia Tech ACC
2 56 New England Patriots Shane Vereen RB California Pac-10
2 57 Detroit Lions Mikel Leshoure RB Illinois Big Ten
2 62 Miami Dolphins Daniel Thomas RB Kansas State Big 12

 

[Derinyar]

As to why a CB because we have two starting level CBs, but one is expensive and has some issues with his game and this is a passing league currently. It feels like if you're not adding a CB either FA or draft every year who has the capability of being a starter at some point you're falling behind the curve. The other reason that a 1st round CB is being discussed seriously with us is that is quite likely to be one of the value positions when we pick. Positions of need for us would be another DE, CB, RB, and FS in my opinion. DE's that have developed pass rushing abilities or have that freakish first twitch that are left to us will have either serious growth to do before they make an impact(OO), lack ideal size(Harold), or have serious character flags(Gregory). I don't expect Gregory to actually be available when we pick, but if he is there its just because the man likes smoking out too much. So I'd probably say if you're wanting impact for this year you don't take a DE at 27. At RB there's only one guy I really love at 27, Gurley, and I expect he's probably gone before pick 27. Gordon is someone to think about but I just wonder if he's a significant improvement over the guys you can likely get a little later. So might not be a RB worth taking. There's no FS worth taking at 27 in this draft. Demerious Randall seems to be the best thought of one, but he seems to feel more like a mid second or later. Eric Rowe might count there also if you don't see him as a CB. So at CB you have 2 guys who I think are viewed as likely to be drafted in the first by everyone, Waynes and Kevin Johnson. After those two you see a lot of Byron Jones and Marcus Peters from people. And there's a legitimate chance you might see Rowe(as a CB) and Darby in the 1st also. But pretty much none of those guys, outside of Waynes, is seen as a consensus top 15 level player so you have a pretty reasonable chance of finding one of them left when you get to 27. That means that I think they're likely to be the best value, outside of a potential LT prospect dropping.

Honestly I think my preference would be a trade down into the top of 2 and pick up probably a 4th and 5th for it and take our choice of the RBs outside of Gurley and Gordon with that high first and then take BPA at 60. I'm worried there's going to be a RB run starting with the Jets in the 2nd. Teams I could see taking a RB in the second before us, Jets, Falcons, Browns, Vikings(if Peterson traded), San Diego, Detroit, Arizona, Baltimore, and Carolina. So once the first team pops a RB you could see 3-5 go pretty quickly.

 

[big dog cowboy]

To me the number one reason why this team succeeded is our running game. Now we did have great blocking up front but we did also have a great running back too. For anyone who thinks that McFadden will give us even half of what Murray did needs to put the pipe down. I do not understand how we could pass up one of the top 3 rbs all of whom have first round talent for a corner. To me its a no-brainer. Gurley, Gordon and Coleman should easily be the pick so we don't have such a drop off in the running game and one could argue it might even improve with the ability some of these guys have to break big runs more than Murray did. When was the last time a corner impacted a team so much to add to the win category? Give me the guys who touch the ball or are closest to the ball. Those guys produce WINS. QBs, RBs, Oline and Dline always in the first.

I would easily draft a CB over a RB at 27. It's not even close. We can get another RB anytime. We need several pieces added to the D to make it championship worthy.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

He ran, so when does he make this climb to 15-20

 

[jnday]

Right and the decision makers then are the same now. That's what scares me. It's pretty hard to have any respect for anyone involved in that offseason. Or anyone who supported it, for that matter.

Yet the chants of " CB, CB, CB" is still an every year thing. All I heard that an improved pass rush would improve the DB play over the last year. They sign Hardy, but the masses still want CBs at 27 that will be lucky to play ten snaps a game. You were right about the CBs then and you remain right about spending too many resources at the position.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Yet the chants of " CB, CB, CB" is still an every year thing. All I heard that an improved pass rush would improve the DB play over the last year. They sign Hardy, but the masses still want CBs at 27 that will be lucky to play ten snaps a game. You were right about the CBs then and you remain right about spending too many resources at the position.

Signing Hardy has nothing to do with me wanting a CB. I wanted Mo and Carr replaced way before that happened.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Signing Hardy has nothing to do with me wanting a CB. I wanted Mo and Carr replaced way before that happened.

And like you posted earlier, if the BPA is a corner at #27, then a CB it shall be.

 

[jnday]

Signing Hardy has nothing to do with me wanting a CB. I wanted Mo and Carr replaced way before that happened.

I agree that I never wanted either in Dallas. I was about run off this board because I hated the trade up for Mo on draft day. I was labeled a troll for hating the pick. Carr was an overpaid average QB that was a bad signing. The problem is that both will be on this roster this year and there will not be a rookie replacing them.

 

[Gaede]

Completely disagree. There's a HUGE drop off from Gordon/Gurley to the rest of the pack. I honestly don't think anyone out of the "rest of the pack" will end up successful RBs long term. None of them are complete backs. Coleman is a home run hitter, but not a guy that's going to get dirty yards like Murray.

I want to agree, though Murray coming out of college was not the same back we saw last year. He looked pretty much exactly like Coleman.

Maybe when you plug him into our system, he will get those tough yards. Obviously at Indiana they went with what worked. But that doesn't mean he is unable or unwilling to fight for yds through the middle.
I do think there is a big drop off from tier 1 runningback to tier 2, but I would include Coleman in tier 1.