I just hope Ware can develop into half the player Joey Porter is...

[Deep_Freeze]

Those arent fans, those are frontrunners.

They get the finger from me.

I agree with that. But I think we still think it (any team), even if we don't admit it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The best part about this post is that...You used to be that guy. Whether you know it or not, its the truth.

Now get some of your brothers to step up their game and realize an all-star is not made through one game or one season. You know the ones.

yeah, I've tamed

btw, you've known me too long :laugh2:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Those arent fans, those are frontrunners.

They get the finger from me.

you know you get one too right? or a few hundred :laugh2:

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Rack, save your carpal tunnel. He doesnt understand the mean streak point of view.

I see both sides. Yet IMO, the guy that has the streak typically makes more plays in the long run (for certain postions like LB, DL S, etc).

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think Ware is better for us, but I guess I want to see the numbers in addition to what I see on the field.

Ware had some pretty good #s last year though, w/ more concentration on him, but I agree, let's hope he continues on this pace for his career w/ us, which I hope is very long and prosperous

 

[Bob Sacamano]

He doesnt understand the mean streak point of view.

but I have a great sig

 

[Rack]

Rack, save your carpal tunnel. He doesnt understand the mean streak point of view.

I see both sides. Yet IMO, the guy that has the streak typically makes more plays in the long run (for certain postions like LB, DL S, etc).

I don't think there is a "Both sides". He just doesn't understand what a mean streak really is, and how it can benefit a player. He thinks only of the negative (which really doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a mean streak).


He's attributing certain negative traits in certain players to a "mean streak" when their mean streak (whether they have one or not) doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And just to clarify, EVERY NFL player (except maybe kickers, punters, and some QBs) have some level of a mean streak. You simply cannot play that sport at the NFL level w/o one. You can't not want to get hit or not want to hit and play at that level. Period.


Some players have more of a mean streak then others.

I agree, I'm not saying Ware doesn't have a mean-streak, but people want him running around like a maniac and getting into people's faces, and most players are just motivated to be the best, it's not necessarily just about having a mean streak, or more of a mean streak than others

 

[SkinsandTerps]

I agree with that. But I think we still think it (any team), even if we don't admit it.

I know a guy that is a Commanders fan and a guy that is a Cowboys fan (neighbors). Both are pretty decent guys.

Neithers really knows jack about football. They are just media fed fans who go by what Skip and Woody have to say every morning.

To me thats sad. I feel that I have a very good insight, not only as far as the Commanders but to nearly every team in the NFL. I could make a case for any team to make the playoffs, and for any of the teams that were in the playoffs last year not to be in the playoffs this year.

Some people are jersey snobs, I guess I am more of a fandom snob.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't think there is a "Both sides". He just doesn't understand what a mean streak really is, and how it can benefit a player. He thinks only of the negative (which really doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a mean streak).


He's attributing certain negative traits in certain players to a "mean streak" when their mean streak (whether they have one or not) doesn't have anything to do with it.

ok Rack, give me the definition of a mean-streak, and I'll try to figure out how I'm wrong about Arrington

 

[Rack]

I agree, I'm not saying Ware doesn't have a mean-streak, but people want him running around like a maniac and getting into people's faces, and most players are just motivated to be the best, it's not necessarily just about having a mean streak, or more of a mean streak than others

I'm not one of those people. Although I don't want him to back down if someone gets in his face or attempts a dirty block on him.


I've seen a bit of a mean streak in Ware. Would I like more? Sure, but I'm fine with him the way he is.

I was just debating certains traits in players that you were attributing to their mean streak when their mean streak wasn't/isn't the reason for those traits.



I played with a guy in highschool (Cesar Harris) that ALWAYS had a smile on his face. We nicknamed him "Smiley". He played RB and safety for us. One hell of a football player. I was the fullback that blocked for him. I once saw him get flipped over while getting tackled, and he was LAUGHING while he was being flipped.

But that SOB had a mean streak. There was no quit in that player whatsoever. He'd laugh, get up, and come knock you on your *** the next play, while still laughing.

He is the guy that gave me my first "Stinger" in practice, although I ran his *** over on the play.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I know that. But, and don't ignore this FACT, he still did say he would prefer that Ware had a mean streak.

Obviously there must be something to it, huh? It's not just how it effects a players play on the field, but how it effects the psyche of your opponents.


Physically, Derrick Thomas and LT were about the same. Hell, Thomas even had a bit of an edge in that department. Thomas even had a little bit of a mean streak, but nothing like LT's mean streak.


Who do you think opponents wanted to face LESS? The physically gifted player, or the guy that told you all day long he was gonna kick your ***, then went out and did it, play after play after play?


And having a mean streak doesn't make you a "bad person" either.


I don't know what to tell you, you just don't have an understanding of what "mean streak" means.

Take a guy like Romanowski. Some might say he had a "mean streak". I don't think he did ,(well he didn't JUST have a mean streak). What he had was an inferiority complex. He felt the need to be a dirty player cuz he knew he wasn't good enough to hang otherwise. It's also the reason he was all roided out. And the roids are also another reason he was such a *** on the field.


But it wasn't a "mean streak" that made Romanowski that way. That was just his personality.


Hard to come up with an example, but I'll try using a quote from Ware himself.

He said last year - referring to NFL offensive tackles - " Once they get their hands on you, it's over". I knew right then and there he didn't have a mean streak. A guy with a mean streak would never concede (?) defeat. A guy with a mean streak would never feel that a tackle could do anything to him to make the battle "over". I don't like that Ware felt that way cuz the fact is it's NOT over if a tackle gets his hands on you. You continue to fight, rip, swim, spin, etc... whatever you have to do to get to the QB.

A lack of a mean streak is something I've always been annoyed with with Greg Ellis too. The guy gets blocked and - you can tell by his body language - gives up. It's the reason he's never had 10 sacks in a season IMO. You gotta get the ones you win cuz of talent and technique, but you also have to get a few with pure "Want to". Ellis doesn't get many - if any - "Want to" sacks.


I'm NOT saying Ware is the same as Ellis in that regard. I've actually seen more of a mean streak from Ware then I've ever seen from Ellis.


And just to clarify, EVERY NFL player (except maybe kickers, punters, and some QBs) have some level of a mean streak. You simply cannot play that sport at the NFL level w/o one. You can't not want to get hit or not want to hit and play at that level. Period.


Some players have more of a mean streak then others.

Great post with good points. My brother in law played for the radiers when Romo, Gannon, were there, when they went to the super bowl. I met those guys, and I do agree.

Gannon thought he was great, heck his children even told people it. My point is, mean streaks and confidence can be related. Humbleness in such a violent sport, isn't always good.

Barry Sanders was great. But no ring. Do you think he would have taken a leadership role like Irvin on our team and demand better of his teamates?? Nope, I don't think so.

You need some fire in this sport, that mean streak makes a player be able to lead.

 

[Rack]

ok Rack, give me the definition of a mean-streak, and I'll try to figure out how I'm wrong about Arrington

Arrington's problem is he's selfish. His desire to "make a play" isn't cuz of a mean streak, it's cuz he wants stats. He'd rather shoot the gap and ankle tackle a RB then to take on a block that allows his teammate to make the tackle.

A guy with a mean streak doesn't necessarily do that (unless he has a mean streak AND is selfish). A guy with a mean streak with take on that block and knock the blocker on his *** (or die trying) then get up and celebrate with his teammate after that teammate made the play.


I also think Arrington just isn't very intelligent and freelances at times when he doesn't know what to do.



That clear it up any for you?

 

[SkinsandTerps]

yeah, I've tamed

btw, you've known me too long :laugh2:

Hell with that. You don't have to be tamed, just more astute.

Thats something that comes with time. You pick and choose your battles because it makes it more interesting.

Take Hostile for example. We all know he loves to type. But he generally chooses 2 topics a day to be truly participating in. He isnt tamed by any standards, but he wants to have a bigger impact on the topic and does so by being selective.

And yeah, you have matured and I applaud that. Just mean more interesting debates for you and I in the future.

:toast2:

 

[Rack]

Barry Sanders was great. But no ring. Do you think he would have taken a leadership role like Irvin on our team and demand better of his teamates?? Nope, I don't think so.

Exactly.

And that reminds me of another example of "mean streak".


Remember when TO danced on the star?

What Emmitt did afterwards is an example of a mean streak. Of course it had a lot to do with pride as well, but if it were ONLY pride and he had no mean streak, he wouldn't of "cleansed" the star after that TD.

You need some fire in this sport, that mean streak makes a player be able to lead.

I agree. Also, a "mean streak" can turn a very good player into a great player.


It can give a player that extra "umph" to put them over the top.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

but I have a great sig

I clicked the link, I was pretty happy about the whole thing. :

 

[Bob Sacamano]

That clear it up any for you?

kinda, but what about late-hits? roughing the passer? isn't that an attempt to gain a psychological advantage on your opponent, akin to constantly telling someone that you are going to make life hell for them on the football field? I mean, he can't be that dumb, it has to be more, and by giving up on his responsibilities, I mean that it's all apart of his inability to harness his emotions, always looking for a big play, it's like in battle, you're told to hold the line, but your raw on emotion, you attack, men are inspired, they follow you, and then...oops, the line is broke, you guys are ****ed

that's my interpretation of a mean-streak gone awry in Arrington, I concede that you must have a mean-streak to get along in the NFL, afterall, it's a contact sport, you're going to have to play mad, esp. if you're on the D-side of the football, but harness whatever emotions that you are feeling is all I'm talking about

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And yeah, you have matured and I applaud that. Just mean more interesting debates for you and I in the future.

:toast2:

here, here

but can I throw a few jabs in every now and then? please

 

[SkinsandTerps]

kinda, but what about late-hits? roughing the passer? isn't that an attempt to gain a psychological advantage on your opponent, akin to constantly telling someone that you are going to make life hell for them on the football field? I mean, he can't be that dumb, it has to be more, and by giving up on his responsibilities, I mean that it's all apart of his inability to harness his emotions, always looking for a big play, it's like in battle, you're told to hold the line, but your raw on emotion, you attack, men are inspired, they follow you, and then...oops, the line is broke, you guys are ****ed

that's my interpretation of a mean-streak gone awry in Arrington, I concede that you must have a mean-streak to get along in the NFL, afterall, it's a contact sport, you're going to have to play mad, esp. if you're on the D-side of the football, but harness whatever emotions that you are feeling is all I'm talking about

Most of that isn't a mean streak. That is ...Undisciplined, unprepared, and uneducated. Mean streak is more disciplined than illegal.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

here, here

but can I throw a few jabs in every now and then? please

Sure why not.

I have always thrown better uppercuts and kidney shot over the years anyway.

:laugh2: